Getting his attention

[chene]

I have been struggling as of late to get Aed's attention when we are outside. It's one thing to get him to come when I have his attention, but it's a whole other to try to recall him when he's not even aware I exist. If he sees another dog, person, rabbit, water, squirrel, or something else odd, he's gone before I even realize what's happened. He comes back as soon as he's investigated, but that doesn't help much if the thing in question is across the ravine or on the road. Obviously I've been keeping him on leash since discovering this, but I'm not sure how to keep his focus on me when just about everything else is more interesting to him. Even raw meat or a frisbee can't compare to a rabbit sprinting across the fields.

[Kenbo]

How old is he and what home training has he had?

[chene]

He's just over a year old. I'm assuming by home training you just mean training with me...in which case we train just about every day, practical things and silly tricks alike.

[geonni banner]

He's just over a year old. I'm assuming by home training you just mean training with me...in which case we train just about every day, practical things and silly tricks alike.

 

He's just over a year old. I'm assuming by home training you just mean training with me...in which case we train just about every day, practical things and silly tricks alike.

But what sort of training do you do? "All positive"? Do you use physical corrections? Verbal corrections? Do you do basic obedience exercises? (Sit, Down, Heel, etc.)

 

With his recall, is he rock-solid sans distraction? How have you proofed this?

[Kenbo]

We board a lot of dogs on the farm and their is nothing worse than to call a dog and it walks or runs the other way. We have 10 acres that is fenced but at night they need to be close to home and I don't want to go out in the dark and look for them. Remember, you will need to do what works for you. I personally have 10 dogs and they all have great recall and will come to me even if they know they are in trouble. It's something I did not work on but it just came, but I am the alpha and they are with me 24/7 which make a difference, I think.

 

Things I do, remember, recall is hard to get.

1. "name" come here! once. If they don't come, wait 20 seconds, do it again... don't change anything. At that point, if possible put them is a sit, which is usually easy and walk to them. Don't scold or show any emotions, they will fear that you will punish them and NEVER punish them at this time because they will most likely NOT come to you the next time. If you have to call their name and command 4 - 6 times, you are training them that "that" is the numbers of times you will say it before they come.

2. When they come, praise them and make their trip worth it to them, they will remember and it will be easier to them the next time.

3. You can use a long line. Start with a short distance and work your way to 20 to 30 feet. Nane, come here. Treat and praise when they come. A gentle nudge may be needed to keep their attention.

If they love a certain toy or ball, use that for a long distance treat. Name, come here, show ball and they will usually run to you. Make it exciting for them to come to you, they will learn

 

Here at the farm, I start with small distances 10 - 50 feet and in eyesight off line. name, come here, show treat and they will run to me. I will go for a walk with them and carry treats but let the distance increase up. Same thing, name, come hear, treat. What you are shooting for, is even when they are out of sight but hear their name, command, you get a positive response. Remember make them want to come to you when you identify who you want, remember I have 10 and if they hear my voice, they will come.

Some people say use name, "come" one word. I use two but in reality, because they know it's going to be positive, I can just their name...

 

"but it's a whole other to try to recall him when he's not even aware I exist. If he sees another dog, person, rabbit, water, squirrel, or something else odd, he's gone before I even realize what's happened. "

 

Again, recall is one of the hardest things to teach 100% and if something pulls them away it will be hard to call them back after the fact. The thing to watch for, it you know it can be iffy, watch their tail and body language and if you see interest in something, don't wait until they are off, be proactive and call them down before they run...

There are many good ideas out there and something else might work better, do what works for you. This works for me...

[chene]

But what sort of training do you do? "All positive"? Do you use physical corrections? Verbal corrections? Do you do basic obedience exercises? (Sit, Down, Heel, etc.)

 

With his recall, is he rock-solid sans distraction? How have you proofed this?

 

I don't use any corrections when training. He's mainly clicker trained. Yes, we do basic obedience. His recall was perfect until we came to my parents house (with the exception of cars, and we fixed that eventually). He knows that if he hears his recall word it means he's likely to get a treat or frisbee/ball play. (It's just that those things aren't as exciting to him as the rest of the world. I can't think of anything that is.) Even here if you call him when he's paying attention to you he'll come running, super excited. Like, if he's chasing a rabbit, and I say "AED!" and he stops and turns around, and then I recall him, he's fine. But usually he doesn't stop and turn around. Sometimes in the past I recalled him anyways and he broke out of the run and turned around and came to me. But sometimes he didn't, so I stopped risking it.

[Maralynn]

He's likely over the top excited and not even hearing you. Personally, I'd keep him on a long line until he's trained for that level of distraction. Also, while I don't generally use physical corrections I will voice my displeasure which gets my point across. But if he's over threshold then he's not going to even hear displeasure most likely.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

It is so very much harder to fix a broken recall than train it properly the first time. What you really, really, really need to have is the dog who (a) hears his recall and ( responds. No thought, no consideration, no "what's in it for me?", just respond.

 

I am a sheepdog trainer and don't train with treats or clicks though I have seen skilled trainers produce okay family pets and brilliant trick dogs by those methods. For many who do train with "positive" methods, my suggestions will seem better in the original sanskrit.

 

Dogs don't recall because the patterning isn't deep enough and/or because they are so focused they literally do not hear the handler.: the part of their mind that should be listening for the handler is too small or non-existent.

 

You want to always be in the dog's mental space. You want him checking back with you, referring to you, looking to see what you want from him next.

 

You might start with Bill Koehler's longe line technique - the dog who has to pay attention to you on lead will pay attention to you off lead.

 

You might change the command from voice to a shrill whistle, retraining the recall from scratch, using only the whistle. Put a light nylon line on the dog, squat down ten feet away invitingly and whistle. If he comes, praise, repeat and in later lessons add distance. If he doesn't, give a little tug on the line, repeat whistle. If he doesn't, come closer repeat. Victory is coming six inches.

 

You can break a dog's focus by startling him HEY!!!, handclap, weird noise. Recall, praise.

 

Not coming cannot ever be an option. I once tracked an illtrained pet for five miles through light snow to come upon him, hunker down, call and praise. ( I walked him home on lead.)

 

Donald McCaig

[chene]

He's likely over the top excited and not even hearing you. Personally, I'd keep him on a long line until he's trained for that level of distraction. Also, while I don't generally use physical corrections I will voice my displeasure which gets my point across. But if he's over threshold then he's not going to even hear displeasure most likely.

 

Yes, while we originally tried to always sound happy when calling him, I've found that yelling his name sharply can get his attention if he's not too distracted. It's still only a partway solution though.

 

 

 

Dear Doggers,

It is so very much harder to fix a broken recall than train it properly the first time. What you really, really, really need to have is the dog who (a) hears his recall and ( responds. No thought, no consideration, no "what's in it for me?", just respond.

 

I am a sheepdog trainer and don't train with treats or clicks though I have seen skilled trainers produce okay family pets and brilliant trick dogs by those methods. For many who do train with "positive" methods, my suggestions will seem better in the original sanskrit.

 

Dogs don't recall because the patterning isn't deep enough and/or because they are so focused they literally do not hear the handler.: the part of their mind that should be listening for the handler is too small or non-existent.

 

You want to always be in the dog's mental space. You want him checking back with you, referring to you, looking to see what you want from him next.

 

You might start with Bill Koehler's longe line technique - the dog who has to pay attention to you on lead will pay attention to you off lead.

 

You might change the command from voice to a shrill whistle, retraining the recall from scratch, using only the whistle. Put a light nylon line on the dog, squat down ten feet away invitingly and whistle. If he comes, praise, repeat and in later lessons add distance. If he doesn't, give a little tug on the line, repeat whistle. If he doesn't, come closer repeat. Victory is coming six inches.

 

You can break a dog's focus by startling him HEY!!!, handclap, weird noise. Recall, praise.

 

Not coming cannot ever be an option. I once tracked an illtrained pet for five miles through light snow to come upon him, hunker down, call and praise. ( I walked him home on lead.)

 

Donald McCaig

 

I'll look into the long line technique, and the whistle. I'd been thinking about totally retraining the recall anyways. Thanks.

[geonni banner]

I agree with Mr. Mc Caig. The recall is never optional. It has to be every time - right now.

 

I'm a fan of Koehler's recall training too. Long-line and really snap it if he blows you off. Another thing that I've found useful is to recall off of something interesting (always on a line until he's reliable) and then let him go immediately back to whatever interested him to begin with. Too many people only use a formal recall to end the fun, as in recall, compliance, snap on a lead and go back to the car - fun stops.

 

And I also agree, start over, use a different word for the recall, and pretend he knows nothing. I always preface the recall with the dog's name. This is because I often have more than one dog.

[chene]

I read up on Koehler's methods, I'm going to give them a shot, minus the "throw chain". Perhaps I'll teach myself how to whistle and use that..

[Kenbo]

The recall is never optional. It has to be every time - right now.

 

I always preface the recall with the dog's name. This is because I often have more than one dog.

I agree 100% it's not optional. With my 10 dogs, when I kennel them to feed, they will wait at the kennel door to be called, and 1 by 1, I call their name until all of them are in, makes it much more peaceful. Even at the back door, if I am letting one inside, I call the name of the one coming in and the others wait. They usually have to wiggle in-between the ones waiting. This is a must if you are only letting a few inside. ..

[Laurelin]

He sounds like a pretty typical adolescent boy dog to me. Ask me how I know....

 

I've basically been using a long line with Hank. Mine is really thick and cumbersome (it's 35') so I may be switching to a thinner one if I can find it. maybe biothane? Mine is cotton and it gets messy fast.

 

Anyways, just lots of repetitions and working in distractions. We're doing an engagement class at FDSA and really am just focusing less on specific 'training' and more on working with his attention.

[5Bordercollies]

Kembo, how did you train them to come one by one when their name is called? It's something I would really love to teach my bunch.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

Ms. Laurelin writes: "I've basically been using a long line with Hank. Mine is really thick and cumbersome (it's 35') so I may be switching to a thinner one if I can find it. maybe biothane?"

 

Parachute cord. Available at any farm store. Also good for pocket leashes.

 

 

Donald McCaig

[Kenbo]

Kembo, how did you train them to come one by one when their name is called? It's something I would really love to teach my bunch.

 

We have a 14 run kennel. Each dog is assigned to their own space and it has never changed. When we go into the kennel to feed, I put all of them in a "stay" at the door after I go in. As I walk down the row, starting with the closest run, I call that name and they come to "their" space , go to the next run and call that name and they come and so forth. I would only assume know their space and they will wait because they want the food. This has expanded to other areas such as the back door, pasture gate and so forth. I think their own space was the trick. If I leave the farm and have the need to kennel them all, when I open the kennel door, I state "get in your kennel" they will go stand in front of their door and wait. I have always used easy names that was easy to understand except the rescues that already had names when they came in such as Abby, Gabby Annie, but they do fine. Eye contact also helps when I call them.

[SKYWALKER]

I had similar issues with a rescue that is 8 years old. Would recall well unless he was really interested in something else. In 2 months I've made great progress with his new recall. Now he will recall even when his arousal is high and even after beginning a chase towards something. But there are still some occasions where it's not working - so still am training daily.

 

I had to switch from using his name or 'come here' to a specific whistle - which is great because it seems to not call other dogs and he can hear it from further away - and had to start from the ground up. I only use that whistle for recall. The method I'm using is something called Susan Garrets Brilliant Recall. It's an online course and costs money - but maybe she has a book, not sure. Not affiliated with it other than am using it and it is working - but it's something you have to specifically work on and train every day. It's positive reinforcement based.

 

A lot of it is focused on you becoming the highest value target in the dog's mind - always. So no matter what they are interested in, when they hear that command, they refocus back and come running to you right away.

[ourwully]

I have been having the exact same problem with my Juno and she is nearly two. I am a total novice but after taking similar advice for some time now, I am not convinced that making myself the highest value target is the answer. Juno and I spend a lot of time together, she follows me everywhere and I am very high on her list. I wouldn't trade her for the world but I am inexperienced and I don't exude the confidence of an experienced trainer. When it comes to me or any treat I have, and a squirrel, the squirrel wins every time. I feel strongly that the problem lies with my demeaner and not Juno. I am just a pushover and she knows it. There is no consequences for her when she doesn't respond. When I hear people say their dog had a perfect recall by 6 months I believe it because I think some trainers just know how to get the perfect recall. They expect it.

 

I am signing up for another class tomorrow to keep working at it. Chene, I will be interested to see how it goes for you. Hopefully you will be successful.

 

Bill

[geonni banner]

I am just a pushover and she knows it. There is no consequences for her when she doesn't respond. When I hear people say their dog had a perfect recall by 6 months I believe it because I think some trainers just know how to get the perfect recall. They expect it.

 

Bill

That's it. I work on a long-line to proof recalls. Any blowing me off gets the dog reeled in, on her feet, on her butt, what ever. And when she gets there, no matter how, I am delighted to see her. Treats are optional. The recall isn't. No matter how spacy, distractable or hard-headed the dog is, I get them to my feet. And then praise with gusto. Me? Drag you? No way! It was the evil tether! See? I'm fixing you all up. Untangling you, and off you go again! Have fun!

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Bill writes: "I think some trainers just know how to get the perfect recall. They expect it."

 

Just an ordinary feature of our shared world like the sun coming up in the east.

 

Donald McCaig

[denice]

I am reading a book "Team Dog" written by Navy Seal Mike Ritland. He has trained dogs for the SEALs and other agencies as well as training protection dogs for individuals. His book is written for the average dog owner. He talks about the importance of Respect and Control and seeing things from your dogs perspective. He mentions that for the dog to truly understand what is right he needs context and understand what is wrong. Without correction there is no context. He also talks about that we as owners must have a clear vision of our expectation in order for the dog to come to understand what we expect of him. "be the authority figure your dog is depending on you to be"

I am more than half way through the book it is quite good and bring up some very good points.

[geonni banner]

I am reading a book "Team Dog" written by Navy Seal Mike Ritland. He has trained dogs for the SEALs and other agencies as well as training protection dogs for individuals. His book is written for the average dog owner. He talks about the importance of Respect and Control and seeing things from your dogs perspective. He mentions that for the dog to truly understand what is right he needs context and understand what is wrong. Without correction there is no context. He also talks about that we as owners must have a clear vision of our expectation in order for the dog to come to understand what we expect of him. "be the authority figure your dog is depending on you to be"

I am more than half way through the book it is quite good and bring up some very good points.

Right on!