wyndrunhr Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I do NOT breed for color and just bred a litter from two strong working lines that happened to produce a true blue puppy. Not a blue merle, which is a black and white dog with a merle pattern; but a blue and white dog with a merle pattern. He seems very healthy and is the biggest pup in the litter and is very outgoing, confident and gregarious and has color on his eyes and ears, but is also white factored. I'm trying to decide which pup to keep for herding and sports and wondered if any of you feel the dilute dogs carry other color linked genetic problems because they are dilute? I seem to remember a few of the blue dogs I've come across over the years having Alopecia; but also other problems like digestive and neurological problems and just weird stuff that seems to be outside the range of normal? Coincidence? I can BAER test DNA test for MLPH (color dilution alopecia.) Just wondering what experience you guys have with the dilute dogs? I have done research and know about Collie Blue disease and the Alopecia, both of which can be DNA tested. But there is no scientific research on other associated issues, so just wondered about anecdotal evidence you might have? I'm not choosing a puppy because of color, but I also don't want to NOT keep a puppy based on color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 So he's a slate merle? What is collie blue disease? I'm not seeing it in a quick search. ETA: I Have no experience with blues. I know a blue longhaired whippet who has color dilution alopecia, but is otherwise healthy at 9 or 10 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyndrunhr Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 It's really the pits that people call black and white dogs with merle coat pattern "blue merle." A more accurate description would be a "black merle." It's way less confusing that way. My pup is a blue and white dog that's also merle.........that should be a blue merle, but some folks call a slate merle......semantics bad. Anyway, the Blue Collie Coat disease is an auto immune disease primarily found in Rough Collies, but could be in BC also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'm still not finding it, even adding "coat." The closest I'm finding is Grey Collie Syndrome, also known as Cyclic Neutropenia. Do you have a link? Mostly curiosity on my part. Yes, the color names are exceptionally confusing. I honestly don't know why dilute blacks are called "blue." Why not grey or slate? And "lilac" for dilute red? Don't even get started on the idiocy of that one. I never understood why blue merles were called blue until one day we were working in the mist, stereotypical Scottish weather, and my blue merle looked blue in the distance. It may not actually be why it's called "blue" merle instead of black or grey, but that day it sure worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Why blue? Probably for the same reason that a black roan horse is a blue roan or a black roan heeler is a blue healer. Look at your own avatar--the mingling of black and white gives a bluish appearance. I doubt anyone thought about the possibilities of confusing someone when they called a black merle "blue." The dilute black isn't very common after all, and could as easily have been called something other than blue (e.g., slate, grey) and would have been more accurate in so doing. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I did know a blue Border Collie with a cyclic pancytopenia, thought to be related to cyclic neutropenia. They have a slightly higher chance than a black and white of suffering from color related health issues. Not enough that I would worry and pass over an otherwise superior (well bred) blue pup. I certainly would not be breeding for the color on purpose though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chan Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I only have anecdotal evidence to share, but since you asked about experience with blue dogs....I have a male, blue tri BC from working lines who just turned one year old. He is healthy and smart. He is being trained for agility and is doing great. He does have a bit less fur on the tip of his ear that is solid colored but other than that no alopecia. And, no he isn't merle, he just has heavy ticking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyndrunhr Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Liz, Thanks for your info! I researched and found out that CN is a simple recessive and there is a easy DNA test for that. Not sure why folks with a dilute dog don't test for that before breeding? I need to call the lab to find out if carriers must be dilute or not, or can be carriers but not be dilute? But seems like a good practice to test any dilute dog before breeding. I do know that many of the color breeders breed dilute to dilute....based on my research, I would say that's a very bad idea. Here's what I found on CN- https://www.vetgen.com/canine-cyclic-neutropenia.html I did not breed for color, but I also do not want to NOT breed for color UNLESS it is a health issue. I did know a blue Border Collie with a cyclic pancytopenia, thought to be related to cyclic neutropenia. They have a slightly higher chance than a black and white of suffering from color related health issues. Not enough that I would worry and pass over an otherwise superior (well bred) blue pup. I certainly would not be breeding for the color on purpose though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyndrunhr Posted July 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks Chan and he is gorgeous and sounds talented. Would love to have some folks respond with older dilute dogs and their experience with them health wise? I only have anecdotal evidence to share, but since you asked about experience with blue dogs....I have a male, blue tri BC from working lines who just turned one year old. He is healthy and smart. He is being trained for agility and is doing great. He does have a bit less fur on the tip of his ear that is solid colored but other than that no alopecia. And, no he isn't merle, he just has heavy ticking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chan Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 I believe Northfield Nick,( I think I have the name right), has a male about 8 years old, if I remember correctly, who is/was a trial dog, or maybe just works at home. Blue is recessive so Rook just happened to pop up in his litter - no one was expecting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aschlemm Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 If your pup is white factored maybe you should have his hearing checked before deciding to keep him. Where I work we see blue pitbulls, blue fox terriers and now are seeing dilute colors in Olde English Bulldogges. They do seem to be more prone to demodectic mange, skin infections and thin coat. Oh, we also had a set of blue dobermans with mange also. But I can't say that blue merle collies or shelties or Aussies have any more issues than any other color. Can you post a picture? I'm curious if I'm understanding the color accurately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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