alligande Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I am looking for different ideas on how to teach a rear leg lift. This is part of Rievaulxs ongoing rehab program with the evantually goal that he will stand on the peanut and on his own lift his rear leg. We have always struggled with targeting rear paws, so I have been trawling YouTube for different ideas on how to do this, and came up with a couple. Wondering what others have tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I recently took a Fenzi class on shaping with Donna Hill, the class did a lot of specific paw targeting. Renoir and I had never been very successful either; but I was pretty happy with the end results. I believe she has a bunch of YouTube stuff and other articles you might look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I shaped it by placing a FitPaw Pod thing behind one of his hind feet (dog is standing) and clicking any rear foot movement. It didn't take long for him to lift his foot onto the pod. Once he was doing that fairly reliably, I only clicked a high leg lift, then removed the pod and gave the behaviour a name ("Lift"). It's really quite a funny behaviour, and he will travel backwards with his rear leg in the air, which is not at all what the exercise is, but is super cute. If I want him to not do that, I put a Manners Minder in front of him, and reward a stationary leg lift. I am looking for different ideas on how to teach a rear leg lift. This is part of Rievaulxs ongoing rehab program with the evantually goal that he will stand on the peanut and on his own lift his rear leg. We have always struggled with targeting rear paws, so I have been trawling YouTube for different ideas on how to do this, and came up with a couple. Wondering what others have tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borasaurus Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 I inadvertently got a rear leg lift from Kieran when training a handstand. I was using a stack of books and having him back up onto them. Instead of stepping on the books consistently (he will only do it if every path around it is blocked off), I somehow got a rear leg lift from that. So now, when I tell him to step onto the books, he'll lift his back left leg and hop backwards. I think it probably looks similar to what airbear's dog does. I haven't actually captured it in an actual command, but that could be a good way to do it. I had to transfer the exercise to a tilted plank because the books clearly don't work for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted April 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 One of our struggles is that anything that is large enough he immediately does a 2o2o contact position, and I am not willing to break/ change the behaviour. I like the idea of the fit paw pod, I will think about a substitute, the balance cushions I have wont work as he is a very literal dog, balance cushions are for front paws, thanks Kristi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekah Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I initially ended up with a rear leg lift when I was teaching the early stages of a handstand. Then I left the behaviour alone for a few years and re-taught it by cuing a back up onto a peanut. I recently taught ipsilateral lifts by using a novel object (a couch cushion in my case) because all previously known objects were prompting rear feet targets and it wasn't what I was looking for. So, my advice would be to try a new object, to start. Then it's a matter of rewarding in position to isolate the exact behaviour you're looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I looked for video of shaping a rear foot lift on a pod and couldn't find it. I did find this, which we were doing to shape a higher leg lift. This was the beginning of our ipsilateral stand. I really need to buy that stabilizer thing for the yoga ball. One of our struggles is that anything that is large enough he immediately does a 2o2o contact position, and I am not willing to break/ change the behaviour. I like the idea of the fit paw pod, I will think about a substitute, the balance cushions I have wont work as he is a very literal dog, balance cushions are for front paws, thanks Kristi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thanks Kristi, we have along way to go before being able to do anything like that! I played around with some different ideas and the one that seems to be workings tiny bit is just me touching his leg to get a slight lift and marking that. If I try to get him to stand on any object with his back feet, he avoids it, I have no idea why he thinks back feet do not belong on things and front feet can go on anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 What Leslie demo'ed with her dogs was having them back up to a pylon (quite a tall pylon) and shaping a back foot motion. With something tall, they can't offer a contact behaviour or try to do a handstand. Rex would have a FIT if I touched his back legs (he has a thing about his back legs) so I had no choice but to shape. Thanks Kristi, we have along way to go before being able to do anything like that!I played around with some different ideas and the one that seems to be workings tiny bit is just me touching his leg to get a slight lift and marking that. If I try to get him to stand on any object with his back feet, he avoids it, I have no idea why he thinks back feet do not belong on things and front feet can go on anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I made a shoot using the couch and a big ottoman. I placed a book in between and had Levi go in between the couch and ottoman, backwards of course. This way he couldn't avoid the books or turn around. Any back foot movement was clicked, then any back paw touching the book. Which ever paw he offered first is the one I first trained. I just kept stacking books until they were pretty high. After just a few books he was lifting his paw much higher in an attempt to locate the books, and I clicked for high leg lifts. If he wants to put both paws on, just wait him out. Be fast with clicking for just one paw movement. You could also try to lean in to him a bit to try to get him to move back a step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 If I were going to do this for fitness purposes. I would shape a back up to something that I would not ask for a 2 on 2 off with. In this video I am using a platform made out of foam stuff. I use a hard board for 2 on 2 off. Once I got that, I would use a small piece of the same material to isolate the one paw. I would put that on cue and then start working on getting it while it is elevated - maybe placed on a stool, or stuck to the wall. From there I would isolate out the lift motion and put that on cue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Thanks Kristine, Kristi and Waffles. Kristine the problem I struggle with your technique is that he tries to turn anything that is large enough to get him to back into he turns it into a 2o2o platform, if it is to small for that he does everything possible to avoid putting his feet on it, which then makes me laugh because it takes lots of rear end awareness to acheive! Any ideas? Waffles, your idea has potential I am going to give this ago. Kristi, I love how different they all are, you can't touch Rex's feet and Rievaulx will turn into a pretzel to avoid putting his back feet on anything but I can hold his paws all day long. To be honest if this was not for rehab purposes this is not a trick I would bother with, I like to work on things we both think are fun, but Dr Eide wants him to learn, so learn he must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 I'd probably try setting up a chute made of ring gates. I actually do this to teach backing to a platform (to train backing - back feet on the platform tells the dog that he or she has reached the point to stop). Once I had the backing in the chute, I would go with an object too small to put both feet on. There would probably be a point where the dog would struggle with the concept, but I think it could be done. Here I made the "chute" by putting a chair next to the side board. So if I wanted just one paw, I would move that platform so he could only get one paw on it, but still have him in the chute. It might be worth a try!! It's a lot of props, but it is very clear to the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted May 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I tried the chute system today, set up a chair near a wall and a book that his left paw would land on and we had some success. I kept the chute very short basically one step and the paw found a book, I used pressure rather than a command to back him up, he really is very literal and if I use a known command while teaching a new one he gets very frustrated and I risk breaking the existing trick. I am going to focus on the left side first as it his right hip that is the problem, then balance things out with the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Update: using the chute to get us started was perfect. I was able to quickly get rid of the chair, I had books against a wall first, but then he started offering me a leg lift with his foot on the wall, cute but not what I needed. I moved the books away from the wall and started getting very consistent leg lifts. I quickly upgraded to a large terra cotta plant pot as the books were being punished, Rievaulx is not a delicate dog. And from there I am now getting really good leg lifts offered. It is not on verbal cue yet, I need to bring the plant pot out to get him started. Thank you very much for the ideas, helped me get by a very large road block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Awesome!!!! I'm so glad it's working!! I've used the backing to a rear paw target to isolate Dean's weaker leg, too. We need to get back to doing some of that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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