Tunnel Fear

[Cass C]

Lily is terrified of the tunnel if she even sees it she runs or crumbles to the ground if she is on a leash. I have tried making the tunnel fun, by playing near it or giving yummy treats by it. However she seems to just shut down near the tunnel and has no interest in treats or play around it. She won't even fetch the ball if it lands near the tunnel. To my knowledge nothing bad has ever happened around the tunnel, but maybe I am doing something wrong.

 

My trainer is working with me on this issue, but commented that Lily is very sensitive compared to most dogs she works with (mostly labs, goldens, and GSD type dogs). Has anyone dealt with this before and how did you/would you work through it?

 

I plan to compete with her someday, so I hope this is fixable.

[Liz P]

Is it sitting in the back yard? Perhaps the wind blowing through it is created a sound that has her worried. Or maybe it smells wrong to her (have any dogs urinated on it? did you buy it used?). Have you collapsed it down to just a ring and laid it down on the ground?

[Cass C]

I have tried it in both the house and yard, it was brand new on Amazon so no dogs have peed on it to my knowledge. However, she does have the same issue with my trainer's tunnel, which has been used a lot and possibly peed on.

 

I did put the tunnel in a ring on the floor and she still avoids it like the plague.

[diane allen]

Can you find a helper?

 

First, play "get it!" Have someone hold her, preferably by her chest; walk a few steps away, move your toy/food around excitedly, have your helper let her go and say "Get it!" [Note: this is with NO tunnel anywhere around!] If she is toy motivated, you can throw the toy in the direction she is coming, just a few feet ahead of her.

Do this at longer and longer distances. DO THIS MANY TIMES!!

 

When she has this down, then straighten the tunnel out, squish it as short as it will go, so she can see through it easily.

Have someone hold her at one end; go to the other end with her favorite toy/food.

Make lots of happy sounds!!! Say "Get it!" and move the toy around excitedly.

 

OTOH....how old is she? If she happens to be at one of those fear periods, you might just forget about the tunnel for a few weeks or a month, and try again later!

 

diane

 

p.s.: I think I know what Liz P. meant by laying in a "ring" - but this does not mean a C-shaped tunnel, as is common in agility courses. But rather a tightened up, very short tunnel. Right, Liz?

I don't know what good having it lay "on end" (like a stacked cylinder) would do - but maybe just having her around it without it looking like a tunnel might help decrease her avoidance of it.

[Cass C]

Lily is just over a year old... Do year old dogs still have fear periods? I was under the impression it was a puppy thing.

 

My trainer has me play 'get it' games with both food and toys, which is how we taught her to do the jump and tire. I think I can get my DH to help me possibly hold her at one end and see if I can coax her through a short tunnel using a toy or food. Her problem is strangers, even her trainer, make her even more uneasy if they try to hold her. I usually do the training by myself and it is hard to play get it with no one to hold her. Thanks for the idea, I don't know why I didn't think of that.

 

My tunnel collapses, so I shortened it to the point it is only about 2 inches tall and laid it tunnel side down. That way it wouldn't look like a tunnel. She still avoids it.

[CptJack]

First of all - Yeah, there's actually a fear stage around 12-14 months for a lot of dogs.

 

I also sympathize with dogs who are uneasy being held by strangers. Kylie is like this and it can make agility training difficult since it's far easier to get her to run to me than away from me. I found she was actually pretty okay being held by the LEASH (not collar, not body, but leashed) to send her through the tunnel to me. My husband has also been incredibly helpful, and is about to have to be again because Kylie, after almost 18 months of doing tunnels without trouble has decided they're evil again and is doing things like jumping on top of them instead of going through them.

 

Unfortunately, other than letting it hang around in a non-tunnel form and then working on a shortened tunnel and rewarding HEAVILY on the other side, I don't have any advice.

[Liz P]

Yes, they go through multiple fear periods. Take the tunnel out of the yard for the duration of her fear period. When things settle down again, put it back in the yard.

 

Do you clicker train? If you do, where I wrote praise, click. If you don't, just use verbal praise and back up with food.

 

Lay it down as a ring on the ground in a corner of the yard. Praise her for looking at it. Praise her for facing it. Praise your other dogs for going near it. Praise Lily for taking a step towards it. Try to work your way up to praising her for touching it with any body part (do not force her to get closer to it, this must be on her terms). Praise like mad if she touches it with a nose, paw, or anything else.

 

Work your way to praising for making contact with a larger % of her body. Is she willing to sit in it? Jackpot for that.

 

Once she loves the tunnel collapsed and laying down, stand it up and lean it again the fence. Begin the process again. ("OMG, the scary thing changed positions! It's alive!" is how she might react.)

 

Hold it as a ring and praise your other dog for going through the ring. Praise Lily if she sees the other doing going through and shows any interest. Once again, take baby steps and praise like mad if she comes near you holding the ring in an upright position. Work your way up to asking her to go through it as a collapsed ring.

 

Move it to another location and repeat.

 

When she is REALLY excited to go through it as a ring, try opening it an inch or two. Repeat the process.

 

Baby steps, trust and lots of praise are what you need.

[chene]

The nice thing about desensitization is that there is always room to back up. There are so many ways to make it further away, smaller, or less scary. Or less tunnel-y, maybe.

 

Okay, I'll contribute a real idea though. Could you get rid of the specific agility tunnel for a bit and try with a makeshift tunnel? How does she react to that? If she doesn't like any tunnels, you can start with not a tunnel, like her going between two things or under a thing, and then gradually cover it more and more until it's a tunnel. This next part won't work if it has to do with the smell, but it's worth a try, especially if you've worked with her just having the collapsed tunnel in the house or room sometimes. Anyways, once she's okay with going through her makeshift tunnel, or a bunch of different types of makeshift tunnels, add in the agility tunnel at the end of her tunnel, just as a ring, so it's basically the same experience and she won't notice the ring much (ideally). Then gradually extend the agility tunnel and shorten the makeshift tunnel until she's just going through the agility tunnel.

Or use any bits and pieces of the idea that fit in. It certainly doesn't have to be exactly like that. Whatever works. Good luck.

[Root Beer]

OK, if you haven't tried this - trust me and give it a whirl!! It can work like magic, but you have to move very slowly.

 

I would set the tunnel up normally, but as short as possible in a large area.

 

Equip yourself with the highest value reinforcer possible. A toy if she enjoys retrieving or tug, high value food, a lotus ball absolutely STUFFED with something amazing, etc.

Go into the area with the tunnel and work as close to the tunnel as she is comfortable being. Toss something away from you and away from the direction of the tunnel. When she returns to you, click, treat, and then run away from the tunnel with her!!! You might be 5 - 10 feet (or more) away at first. Repeat.

The object of the game is to move toward the tunnel gradually (together, so at first she is not offering an independent approach, but an approach to you in closer proximity to the tunnel), and to use running away from it as part of the reinforcer for approaching it. But it is important not to push her to the point where she starts to demonstrate a fear response.

The ultimate point is for her to realize that choosing to go near it will result in a huge momentum of moving away from it!!

 

This works very nicely with a tunnel because what is your dog going to do immediately following a successful tunnel performance? Bingo - run away from it, like a bat out of you-know-where!!

 

I would do this for about 2 weeks and see if any enthusiasm for approaching the thing starts to develop. If so, then you could transition to shaping sticking her head into the opening, putting a paw into the opening, and . . . eventually going through it.

At the same time, I would be doing the exact same exercise with something that she is not afraid of that she can interact with. That would help her understand the general principle of "objects that I interact with aren't scary".

Tons of stuff you can do here. And yes, you can certainly have hope of competition performance. It took two full 8 week sessions to get Tessa to go through a scrunched up tunnel, and even then it was half-traumatic for her!!! She loves them now and goes through them all the time in class and competition. But it took a load of patience on the front end to get that.

[Root Beer]

The nice thing about desensitization is that there is always room to back up. There are so many ways to make it further away, smaller, or less scary. Or less tunnel-y, maybe.

 

Okay, I'll contribute a real idea though. Could you get rid of the specific agility tunnel for a bit and try with a makeshift tunnel? How does she react to that? If she doesn't like any tunnels, you can start with not a tunnel, like her going between two things or under a thing, and then gradually cover it more and more until it's a tunnel . . .

 

Or use any bits and pieces of the idea that fit in. It certainly doesn't have to be exactly like that. Whatever works. Good luck.

 

I would build on this, and suggest using as many objects as possible!!

 

You could stat with something like a NADAC hoop, or a hula hoop suspended up by two jump stantions. You could use a box (can you shape her to get into a large box and stand there?). You could use two chairs with something draped across the top.

 

Again, the idea being, "I go to stuff and do something with/in/under it", and that's a good thing.

[SS Cressa]

Has she ever gone in the tunnel before this? Has she always been terrified of it? Like this class season is the 1st time she has been close to the tunnel?

[gonetotervs]

Just a stupid question: is the issue that your dog doesn't like being held by strangers and that association has carried over into the tunnel or does she really not like tunnels? Because if the issue is that she hates being held by strangers, then make sure you and only people she really, really trusts hang onto her when learning new stuff. and work also on developing a rock solid stay so you can use that during exercises where someone might otherwise hold her or her leash.

 

My first agilty dog got held on one side by my trainer when she was first learning the dog-walk set at full height. She came off and then hated the dogwalk with a passion. It took me 12 months working by myselft to get her to do it properly. Meanwhile I did one session at our very first class teaching her the teeter (our trainer turned us loose to play on the equipment --this was a looooong time ago, fyi ) and she adored the teeter from then on out

 

You might also take a book and a pillow one day and have a pleasant read inside your tunnel, and see if she would like to join you.

[Root Beer]

You might also consider having nobody hold her at all. It's not necessary. Nobody held Tessa - that wasn't an option at the time. I had to let her choose to go in of her own accord with only the help of treats to bait and lure, and letting her make the choice to consider the matter, put her head in, put one paw in, put both paws in, put half of herself in, put all of herself in, put all of herself in and go almost all the way through before popping back out the way she came . . . and finally, finally, finally, going all the way through!!

 

If I had it to do over, I would have spent a lot more time on shaping her to interact with objects before I even asked her to work with a tunnel. But it all worked out in the long run.

[Cass C]

Thanks for all the advice I will try it this weekend and see what happens!

[diane allen]

One other thought, sort of building on other suggestions...

When I was trying to teach my dogs to go through an agility tire, I just held an old bicycle tire in a doorway that they REALLY wanted to go through. Tire in place, open door - whoosh! They're through it before they even notice.

You might be abler to do something like this with a "fake" tunnel - like a blanket draped over two chairs or something similar.

 

Or as someone suggested....leave it for a few weeks, and try again later!

diane

[CptJack]

I will also second maybe leaving it for a bit and coming back later.

 

Maybe I just have strange dogs but when it comes to agility I have had bizarre issues crop up seemingly out of nowhere and then just vanish again for (again) no apparent reason at all. Though I kind of think in my case there are variables in play I just can't see.

Well, that or my dogs really are just nuts.

[Maralynn]

Sometimes I wonder if backing off gives the dog time to figure out it's no big deal. Keep trying and they keep thinking about what a big deal it is. Take a break and they can mentally reset and come back fresh.

[CptJack]

It's been a couple of months - how's it going?

[Cass C]

Fantastic it took about a month but Lily is running tunnels like a champ. However she discovered the teeter is even more scary and refuses to step on it. She was fine when it was just a plank, but the first time it moved ever so slightly she ran from it. My trainer has me luring her with treats onto the teeter and then right back off.

[alligande]

Cass C, if you search this forum you will find a long thread on all sorts of advice to help with the teeter. I have found that luring does not really help with fear, shaping interaction with it does, so you click/mark any interaction with the it, a nose sniff, a paw on it etc, gradually building up the level of interaction. What you want is a dog that feels it owns the seesaw, not that the only way to get the cookie is to get on the scary beast.... hope that makes sense and might help.

[Chan]

This may be in the thread that Alligande mentions but I thought it was worth sharing if it isn't. After you click for interaction with the teeter, toss the reward away from the teeter. The release of the "pressure" of being near the teeter is part of the reward initially.

 

There are several aspects of the teeter that dogs find scary and you can address them with different games. Noise is a big one also.

I'll give another plug for Tracy Sklenar at Agility University. She has a great teeter class that you can work through at your own pace. It addresses all aspects of the teeter with different games and is great for creating a dog that thinks the teeter is great fun. Rook was bother by both noise and motion and he loves the teeter now.