Training a shy (rescue) border collie with focus issues

[KaliFreya]

I wasn't sure how to name this thread, but I think this sums it up pretty well. So we rescued Freya from a backyard breeder 7 months ago. She didn't show any sings of trauma except shyness and she is so easily stressed out to the point she will freeze and totally forget what she was doing, or just go away. So I know keeping her safe and keeping it fun is the key. Easier said than done.

 

At first I thought she didn't have a high prey drive, since she would ignore the ball rolling before her eyes. Over the course of time she started showing signs of eagrness to chase balls and frisbee, so eventually she became really good at fetch and frisbee. We also do a lot of tricks. I basically taught her to play with lots of food rewards and praise. She is generally food obsessed, so it makes it easier to train but I would also love for her to find some self rewarding in the play process, not just doing it for the food. I believe she does love to play, but not necessarily fethc. If she would have it her way, she would take a stick and bite it until it's dust or chew an old tennis ball after a few runs. And she definitely misses playtime in those days when we have to skip playing for a day or two and just go for regular walks.

 

But the problems we are facing are focus issues. If a dog passes by, or some smell in the grass gets her attention, there she goes. Some days seem to be especially bad, like yesterday evening and this morning. She was so out of the game that I had to give up doing anything constructive and just let her do her thing. And it's hard to glue her out of it once she wanders off. I've read most of the similar topics here on bc boards and I can say for sure now this is more stress related than anything else.

 

The trouble is, the moment she senses I'm slightly displeased with her performance, she loses a bit of her confidence. If it's a good day for her, she will do tricks, frisbee, run, play, come, whatever I need. I try really, really hard to cover when I'm not satisfied, but you know how hard it can be. Especially when we are doing stuff she really knows and generally loves. Like frisbee. This morning she was soooo slow in running after it, like she couldn't or really didn't want to.

 

So, I'm thinking I'm either putting too much pressure on her (she's a grown up dog, 2 years and 2 months, and she spent a better half of her life locked up in that horrible conditions we pulled her out from) or, like some people suggested, she is low prey drive, bad focus kind of dog. People who've made that statement are high competitive agility people.

 

I would really love to engage her in agility and/or frisbee training soon, and we will start our first dog dancing training in about a month. Is it time for us to go training or do we still have too much homework to do by ourselves? I'm sort of scared she will be pronounced a failure at our agility club if we start right away, but at the same time, I hope that training might boost her confidence. She is really smart and very agile, but her willingness to work worries me, not her abilities. And also, her recall is really bad sometimes, I would really love to improve that.

 

I have a question on food motivation also - so, she is, like I said, extremely food motivated, but if the food is away for more than two or three throws of ball/frisbee, she gives up the game or slows down considerably. I would love for her to become more toy oriented, as this would be helpful for agilty training. From what I know, they only allow toy rewards (fetch/tug) at our club.

 

I'm planning on ordering Control Unleashed book and dvds, but until that arrives (which will take some time), I'm really desperate for advice. I'm so glad we rescued her, but you know, I expected that drivey, ball crazy border collie (which would suit my personality great, since I'm go go go and a workaholic lol), and I got a sensitive little flower that needs to be cared for and trained with great subtlety, and I sometimes fear I failed her. I don't have to tell how bad I feel when she is all stressed out, and I just wanted to make it fun for both of us. Should I just focus on play and fun, and not "work" or "training" at this point? And how long should our training sessions last? I would love to incorporate both work and "go be a dog" in our daily routine, since I think she finds sniffing and doing just doggy stuff very rewarding.

Thanks in advance, people and sorry for the long post.

Just for fun, here's a photo of Freya chewing an old tennis ball.

[CptJack]

The best thing you can do for this dog is get her working with you on something, be that agility or freestyle or obedience. It will not only bolster her confidence, but it will teach her how to handle not being right sometimes and a little pressure, and it will teach you how to work and communicate more effectively with your dog.

 

You, however, need to take the pressure off both you and her. Pronounced a failure? That's not how agility - or any other - dog sport or class works. Not every dog is going to be the star pupil. In fact, most of the dogs in the class won't be. The very worst case scenario is that you need to take the class again. Not a big deal. In fact, very much a 'so what'? If it helps her gain confidence with you and with the setting, it's time well spent.

 

This next bit I say because I am very prone to it myself and I see some hints of it in your post.

Be careful that you are not expecting her to live up to a standard set by a dog who only exists in your imagination. She will never live up to that. No real, living, dog will whether they have a history of abuse or not. You get a puppy or dog and it's so easy to see all of this potential, to imagine all the things you can and will do together and then... the dog's got some issue or another that means they fall short. It doesn't mean your dog is a bad, broken, inferior dog. It doesn't mean you're a bad trainer. It just means reality is never as good as the fantasy, and the shortest way to really form a partnership with your dog is to be able to honestly and objectively see them for who they are.

 

And then work with that. Not give up, not write them (the dog, the dream, or you) off, but to WORK WITH WHAT YOU HAVE, instead of trying to work the dog you have into what you wanted them to be. You'll be okay and you're both doing well.

 

More lightly, seriously, my 9 month old has never been abused in her life. We're retaking the foundations class both because she needs to work on the material a little more, needs to be a little more mature, and because she spent 2 classes in a corner requiring so much management for reactivity she couldn't participate in the class, AT ALL, and we had to leave another class early because she couldn't handle that part of the material. She has also refused for the duration of the entire class to let the instructor or assistant within 10 feet of her, even to take treats/the reward off the targets, and has generally been a squirrel-y, flaky, mess. Some of the people in my class get it and are really amazed by her progress. Some of the people are terrified of her.

Trust me, no matter what your dog does, she will not be the 'worst' the trainer has ever seen.

[KaliFreya]

Thank you for the quick reply! I admitted in my original post, and will again - you are right about the pressure thing. I can't cut off that easily how I "feel". But I sure don't show it that easily either. And I'm not the perfectionist type in a sens that a little slow is too slow for me. The thing is, and I'm aware of it, dogs are sooo sensitive to our finest emotions, and they pick them up easily. So it's also a LOT of work on myself. That's life, right? You dream one thing, you get another, and it's all about how much you appreciate it. You can end up miserable, or you can end up feeling blessed. I mean who knows, maybe I couldn't handle a different dog at this point, but it's easier to get caught up in fantasies.

 

Just few days ago I met with a lady with two beautiful female bcs, they are so motivated and willing to work that it makes your heart hurt when you see them run - not because my dog is something less, but because they are so amazing when they are free in every sense of the word, no emotional brakes, no stress related stuff. I would like for Freya to be like that some day, to be able to enjoy training and play. Don't get me wrong, 99 percent of the time we have fun and she is doing great. It's just days like this throw us back a little, and I want to find a way to avoid it and alter my methods.

 

As for agility class, I know why I mentioned being pronounced a failure - we don't have many options, we have one dog sports club here, and in agility especially you get culled quickly as being perspective or not so much. I would really love it if there was a purely recreationaly club somewhere around here. I mean, you can still participate recreationally, but the club's goal is to find talents for the national representation. I think that really needs to change, as people are being turned off by this kind of pressure. People who just want to work and have fun with their dogs.

[CptJack]

It's hard. If I'm honest with myself (and you) it's something I still struggle with a lot, though less with Molly than with Thud. Thud was... not a dog I chose, not a dog I wanted, and to be honest he has not a single, solitary, trait I've EVER wanted in a dog. He has taught me so, so much about myself as a person and dog owner/trainer, though, and he's forced me to grow in ways I never wanted to.

Molly is, at least, a dog I wanted and selected and while she's got some extra stuff I'm not crazy about is mostly what I want in a dog. Thud just... broke the mold, my brain, and a couple of times my heart (and skin. And house. And sanity. And.)

 

I know this is all more about you than Freya, but I honestly think Freya will be okay - and so will you.

If you haven't seen this, watch it:

It's a tear jerker, but it's beautiful.

 

And really, that club sounds kind of scary to me. I'm not sure *I* could hack that kind of pressure. I have no grand aspirations of going to nationals with any dog ever. I'm only BARELY interested in small, local, trials. I'd like to get at least ONE title on my little mutt, and I'd like Molly to be able to run a whole course and keep her head around other dogs, but beyond that - I don't know, maybe once I get there, but it's all scary to me as it stands.

 

Just keep breathing. You ARE doing well and really? The classes will help. Probably more than you think, even if they're high stress and hard for a while. I find most dogs get a real rush out of learning to work on something new with their person, the dedicated time with them, and finding success in that new activity. And you WILL succeed.

[Bill Orr]

I read the original post because I too have a young BC who is shy and distractible. Although we are herding enthusiasts, I found your post contains some of our similar concerns.

 

CptJack's response was great and very helpful to me. It reinforces the thought directions I plan to follow with my young dog.

 

Anything I can do to focus the young dog on me (what I'm doing) is where I'm going. A respected friend noted that he has found that with his inexperienced herding dogs that he can get their attention three times as fast if the animal has a leash on instead of running around on its own. Not to say that the dog doesn't get free-run exercise, but very limited play with other dogs or just sniffing. Once he is more mature and trained, he'll get more freedom. Just like human animals, right?

 

I don't know how you are, but when I'm asking the dog or trying to get a response I think I have maybe verbally praised but not changed my expression (I'm not a great smiler and sometimes too intense). Now after 12 years of intensive dog exposure, I think I see a response to relaxed, smiling facial expression in my dogs. Temple Grandlin I think talked about the minute expressions that animals recognize. Anyway I'm still learning what works better for me.

 

Another very successful trainer once told me that you can change whatever you have the patience for.

 

I have had my dog of a lifetime and also pups that we have raised who were easily trained and focused. I'm hoping that this dog will have a better life because of the effort we're going to take to get there.

 

Thanks CptJack.

 

B

[Root Beer]

 

 

I'm planning on ordering Control Unleashed book and dvds, but until that arrives (which will take some time), I'm really desperate for advice. I'm so glad we rescued her, but you know, I expected that drivey, ball crazy border collie (which would suit my personality great, since I'm go go go and a workaholic lol), and I got a sensitive little flower that needs to be cared for and trained with great subtlety, and I sometimes fear I failed her. I don't have to tell how bad I feel when she is all stressed out, and I just wanted to make it fun for both of us. Should I just focus on play and fun, and not "work" or "training" at this point? And how long should our training sessions last? I would love to incorporate both work and "go be a dog" in our daily routine, since I think she finds sniffing and doing just doggy stuff very rewarding.

 

Thanks in advance, people and sorry for the long post.

 

Just for fun, here's a photo of Freya chewing an old tennis ball.

 

While you are waiting for the CU book, I would focus on whatever she finds most enjoyable that you have to put in the least amount of work for her to enjoy!!

 

You could toss a treat across the floor, and when she orients back to you, toss another in the other direction. You could do a repetition of play with a toy and then incorporate food into your play. Think of her positive experiences interacting with you - no matter what you are doing - as a bank. The more deposits you make into that bank, the higher her overall confidence is going to be. Later you will be able to work on particulars.

 

Don't worry about what those particular Agility people say right now. Your dog has her own unique talents that are yet to be discovered.

[KaliFreya]

Thank you very much for your input, guys!

 

 

It's hard. If I'm honest with myself (and you) it's something I still struggle with a lot, though less with Molly than with Thud. Thud was... not a dog I chose, not a dog I wanted, and to be honest he has not a single, solitary, trait I've EVER wanted in a dog. He has taught me so, so much about myself as a person and dog owner/trainer, though, and he's forced me to grow in ways I never wanted to.

Molly is, at least, a dog I wanted and selected and while she's got some extra stuff I'm not crazy about is mostly what I want in a dog. Thud just... broke the mold, my brain, and a couple of times my heart (and skin. And house. And sanity. And.)

 

I love the fact that you are honest, so thank you for that too I think everyone desereves the truth. I've been thinking a lot about stuff you said over these two days. I let Freya do her own thing mostly in our walks this two days, and we just practiced a lot of recall for now. Yesterday evening she couldn't wait to get the ball though, if she could, she would have gotten them both at the same time.

We do have some focus issues, some probably stress related due to being overwhelmed, some maybe just short attention span and wanting to do something else at that particular moment. We will work on it. I think for now it would be best to take a basic obedience class. Just something easier for her and me to help us bond even more. And the dog dancing class begins in a month, that's shouldn't be stressful since she knows a lot of tricks already and is used to working with me in that way. Agility won't go anywhere.

 

 

While you are waiting for the CU book, I would focus on whatever she finds most enjoyable that you have to put in the least amount of work for her to enjoy!!

 

You could toss a treat across the floor, and when she orients back to you, toss another in the other direction. You could do a repetition of play with a toy and then incorporate food into your play. Think of her positive experiences interacting with you - no matter what you are doing - as a bank. The more deposits you make into that bank, the higher her overall confidence is going to be. Later you will be able to work on particulars.

 

Don't worry about what those particular Agility people say right now. Your dog has her own unique talents that are yet to be discovered.

 

I love the idea of depositing good experiences in a bank of a relationship. I'm a strictly positive reinforcement traning person so that works for me and my dogs. Like I replied to Cpt Jack, we will focus on doing more simple stuff for now, trying to master her recall and basic obedience. Occasionally, she will ask for the ball, frisbee, tug.. and when she does, I will work from there. That's when her focus is at it's best, and I have to use that. But I plan to make shorter, extremely fun play sessions also in hope to make her want it even more.

[KaliFreya]

I read the original post because I too have a young BC who is shy and distractible. Although we are herding enthusiasts, I found your post contains some of our similar concerns.

 

 

I don't know how you are, but when I'm asking the dog or trying to get a response I think I have maybe verbally praised but not changed my expression (I'm not a great smiler and sometimes too intense). Now after 12 years of intensive dog exposure, I think I see a response to relaxed, smiling facial expression in my dogs. Temple Grandlin I think talked about the minute expressions that animals recognize. Anyway I'm still learning what works better for me.

 

Another very successful trainer once told me that you can change whatever you have the patience for.

 

I've noticed that about facial expressions too! Sometimes when we play frisbee, I can get too focues on throwing it right and her catching it that I forget to show how proud I am of her You know, I praise, I give a treat, but I can sometimes be like those overachieving moms who are very sucess oriented, ofter missing the fun in between. It is incredible how much these animals can teach you about yourself. I've never thought of myself like that before.

[SS Cressa]

Have you tried to bring mutiple frisbee and instead of her "fetching" it is more of a game. As she grabs one frisbee call her name and throw the next one. I'm sure you have already heard most of those type of suggestion and have tried a bunch of things. ik doing that helped my boy who thinks keep away and destroy was WAY MORE FUN than returning the toy.

 

As for focus... she might have a good reason to be distracted by that dog walking pass. Instead of trying to distract her why not let her know you see it and got it under control. Put distance between her and the dog or tell her good girl for noticing and treat her. My dog is super aware of other dogs his is more he wants to play so for me I had to be more fun than the other dogs. In agility class oth his 1st day you could see him think that he needed to be proactive before these super hyped up crazy dogs would try to kill him in the kennel. Instead of just distracting him I made sure to just not let it happen. He is allowed to watch and he learn that he doesn't have to worry about these dogs attacking him cause I'm always there to stop it before it happens and bonus he also gets treated for the ordeal .

I guess to me for all you know she has always had to watch other dogs since you never knew if they were gonna attack. Ik if I was attacked if my back was turn I wouldn't care what you shoved in my face to distract me, I would be watching the danger.

 

sniffing grass can mean stress and she is asking for a break. Never underestimate the need for breaks.

[SS Cressa]

Idk where you are located but what club only allows toys? How do you teach handling, and contacts with toys only? Is there any other clubs you can join?

 

They do make interactive toys that can hide treats... idk if that would help her toy drive?