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Then you can choose to either not read this topic any more or not participate in it any more if you find the posters bothersome. Everyone else has been offering advice, and you seem (as fairly usual) determined to disagree and make judgments and proclamations of your own. .

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I rather have someone tell me something that I am doing that my potentially injure/kill my dog than not say anything at all and find out later, they didn't want to hurt my feelings. Of course, delivery of the message is important. Telling me I am a jackass if I let my dog chase a laser will piss me off (and not why) but telling me the dangers or first hand experience, will get me to listen. But also if someone talks down or act superior to everyone else will make me hard look at their advice....do they have actual experience or are Doc Google or just like to hear themselves speak on everything or a wanna-be

 

An example for me, is when Maid gipped at the Finals and I asked my mentor for feedback and he said I wing/wanged her too much. it really hurt my feelings as I thought I was NOT doing it.....but in the end, I did take his advice to heart....so next trial, I wanted to do the same amount of commands so I only winged/wanged her about half of what I did at the last trial. She won and only lost 6 point on her run.

 

As for the laser, I almost lost one of my top trials dogs as he went for the lights of a car and the only thing that save him from getting killed was a fence. He came with the laser training so I worked hard over the years to fix it....got it where he would not bolt stupidly for any lights.

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So....Where does one get one of these fancy little lasers....?? JUST KIDDING folks...

 

Hey..learned a lot in these last few pages. Cheers!!

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Really Gentile lake you guys ranted for three pages all I did was said enough you got your point across.

 

So are you saying that one or two people's posts which could be taken merely as personal opinon would have carried the same weight as multiple people saying the same thing?

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So are you saying that one or two people's posts which could be taken merely as personal opinon would have carried the same weight as multiple people saying the same thing?

 

Sure it would have.

 

Also one person saying something online means no one else can say it.

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Sure it would have.

 

Also one person saying something online means no one else can say it.

+1

 

 

See what I did there? ;)

 

On the serious side.... I guess each of our dogs has their quirks. Tio's is mosquitoes. If he hears a mosquito he flips out and heaven forbid if one of us try to swat one. I've been working hard on the issue but it has certainly gotten worse. It's nice that the season is over but we did have a bug flying around last night and he wigged out. A laser would probably send him over the edge.

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Just to say wrt Julie's post that I do think it perfectly reasonable in principle to post in defence of someone who appears to be treated unfairly or misinterpreted. I also think it reasonable to pull someone up if they are going OTT. But it's better to move on having made the point.

 

However, she is right in that no one is forced to read what is posted on line and we all have to accept that people will not always agree with us or put things in a way of which we approve. For myself I'd rather people said what they really thought than tiptoed around trying not to give offence but maybe I have a thicker skin than some.

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Tio's is mosquitoes. If he hears a mosquito he flips out and heaven forbid if one of us try to swat one. I've been working hard on the issue but it has certainly gotten worse. It's nice that the season is over but we did have a bug flying around last night and he wigged out.

That is an interesting quirk. Have you tried pairing hearing a mosquito with getting a small treat? It helps if your dog is a pig like mine are. :) My dogs all used to get very worried when I went after flies with a fly swatter. Looking at it from their perspective, I could see how it might be alarming to see me go from normal behavior to lunging and slapping the swatter around, like I was having a bizarre seizure. To help them relax, I would give them a small treat whenever I picked up the swatter. They quickly decided my swatter wielding behavior was harmless and focused on hoping they'd get a treat out of any episode they witnessed.

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As someone who has never used, or even thought about using a laser pointer on dogs... I had no idea that they could ruin a dog, so actually it was very educational to read what people had to say about their experiences.

In no way does it seem like people are trying to push their views down someones throat, or make them feel bad about themselves. To me it looks like people who genuinely care about the welfare of another persons animal, and have their best interest in mind.

Having 3 pages of the laser subject also did not seem like too much, because they were all valid points. And as someone pointed out earlier this still has to do with life with a border collie, so it's not like they're steering this thread in a horrible direction for the sake of making someone feel bad.

 

I feel further educated, so thank you.

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Thank you Mum24 Very nice some of the questions I asked have had awesome results a lot of them are from inexperienced owners. BC are awesome cant love our girl more. Even with the 101 phycology she needs. I get so down on this sight sometimes. you know I was actually stalked by a poster at first I hung in there I was even put on time out. I am here only because I had the desire not to be chased away and read posts for what they are worth. Some very good.

some bad but my love for the dog and not the people have kept me on this sight. I want the best for my dog so I will and willing take all the opinions agreed or disagreed as long as I take away something that makes my pup better.

 

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Thank you Mum24 Very nice some of the questions I asked have had awesome results a lot of them are from inexperienced owners. BC are awesome cant love our girl more. Even with the 101 phycology she needs. I get so down on this sight sometimes. you know I was actually stalked by a poster at first I hung in there I was even put on time out. I am here only because I had the desire not to be chased away and read posts for what they are worth. Some very good.

some bad but my love for the dog and not the people have kept me on this sight. I want the best for my dog so I will and willing take all the opinions agreed or disagreed as long as I take away something that makes my pup better.

Dude....you got a stalker....? Kewl....!!

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Lots of excellent responses have been made to the accusations of "ranting" and so on (Julie, I especially appreciated your comments), and I second them all.

 

Also just want to say that no one was "chased away" from this forum.

Sometimes people come here to ask advice and then, as has been pointed out, don't like the answer they get and rather than sensibly taking advantage of the group of experts who post here and learning something, they go off in a huff. That's their loss, but it doesn't equate to anyone having been "chased off". In the years I have been hanging out here I don't think a single person has been "chased off" or told to leave.

 

I know from my own experience that folks here can be pretty passionate and sometimes critical but it is never gratuitous; it is always in service to what is best for the breed or the individual dog. And if a person sticks around, the education is well worth any hurt feelings that may occur during the learning curve.

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In post #67, Moosikins posted that border collies' need for activity is not too demanding for the average person to meet, and listed activities that provide sufficient exercise/stimulation for them, including a laser pointer. Moosikins was not here asking for advice, but was trying as a member of our community to offer helpful information to the OP. Eight posts were then put up pointing out that laser pointers can bring out harmful traits in border collies -- information that the average person is not aware of but people with longtime experience of border collies eventually learn. After the first two of the eight posts, Moosikins posted that she hadn't seen any such effects on her dog, but would be on the lookout for them. The six posts after that emphasized that by the time the danger was evident, it might be too late.

 

After the 8th post, Moosikins posted the following:

 

Seems like we've hijacked the thread with laser pointer discussions...Let's leave it at the fact that my suggestion was misguided. We play a variety of games and do a lot of different activities with Cal, she's not lacking in entertainment or physical activity but we're not exhausted making sure she's fit and active either, that's really the point.

 

There are lots of games you could play with your dog, most of which don't involve controversial toys like laser pointers. :)

Emphasis added.

 

I wish that the laser pointer discussion had stopped at that point. Every person who posted about the dangers of laser pointers after that was well-intentioned, but it's not surprising that the cumulative effect of it all was to make Moosikins feel dogpiled and humiliated for her well-intentioned suggestion. There are lots of people who play with their dog with laser pointers -- everyone who has ever thought of doing it and who has not experienced or been told of bad effects from it, probably. While it's important and valuable to point out to them that it's a risky, dangerous thing to do with border collies, I don't think we need to continue the beatdown until the person publicly abjures their sins and promises that they'll never do it again.

 

None of those individual posts violated any rules, and they all conveyed important information, but I think there comes a time when the sheer number of posts reiterating the same point over and over again is more likely to have a negative effect than a positive one, and I hope we all can remember to take that into account when deciding whether to post or not in a situation like this.

 

As a poster, I try to make that kind of assessment. Don't always succeed.

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Regarding the laser...in addition to the dangerous obsession...it's an unfair game. The animal is chasing something it can never catch.

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How does one stalk someone here? I can see managing that on Facebook, but here? Really?

 

J.

Shall I send you a few hundred PM's Julie...?? :wub: ... :P

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Here? Well you could, but most of the time I don't even notice I have messages, so you might be wasting your stalking efforts! ;)

 

J.

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Here? Well you could, but most of the time I don't even notice I have messages, so you might be wasting your stalking efforts! ;)

 

J.

 

I'm glad it's not just me who doesn't notice messages. A couple of weeks ago I found several that had been there ages. The senders must think me so rude.

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I must be color sensitive. The little red spot that comes up is like a blaring horn to me.

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I see it now.

 

I think it suffers the same way as pinned posts. When I go onto a board like this I immediately scroll down to the part I'm interested in without registering anything at the top of the page.

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I get an email when I get a PM on this board. I don't know how I managed to set that up, but that's how I always find PM's. I don't think I'd notice otherwise, either. If I am here first and then go into email and see that I have a personal message, I'm like "what?" LOL!! Then I come back and, sure enough, it's there!!

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