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Honestly, to get a dog because you feel it's the breed that will take you to national-level competition is not the reason to get a dog of the breed - you get the dog that suits you, and that you will suit, and see where you both take each other.

 

 

Wonderfully stated. I think too many sports people put too much emphasis on breeds that do well vs what fits them. The best teams I see are people who have dogs that truly fit them and their training style.

 

That said, you'd be a fantastic fit for my cattle dog x terrier mix. Loud and in your face is just the way he is. He was a rescue but I've seen several of his type around in agility and doing well. I've just started his training but he's going to be a fast, fun dog and he seems like he may be small enough to run mostly against shelties. He's not scared of anything and if you enjoy a very physical dog but also very highly trainable, he's a great fit. Yelling makes him more excited. Smacking him around (playfully) makes him even more eager.

 

I'm the opposite of you though. I always had soft breeds until getting him- bc/collie, shelties, and papillons. It's a big adjustment to such a hard dog but he suits me fantastically and honestly... much better than the breeds I grew up with.

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Great opinions and advice from each comment.

I live for dogs, meaning my actual career is dog.
I see a lot of different stories. Some situations and stories I hear from some people, truly leave me baffled and amazed. How could that work out? How did you and your dog make it to this point in life?

I work with a person who went from having a golden as a child, to having no dogs, working as a nurse. Then one day she, against my opinion, went out and got NOT ONE, but TWO dutch shepherds. She has been quite successful with these IPO dogs. She came from not knowing what a DS is, to handling 2 dogs I wouldn't take if I was guaranteed a million dollars.

I have seen a lot in my short lifetime. Opinions are always very strong in the dog world. What can and cannot be achieved is not etched in stone. Opinion and advice is great, but can just that, opinion and advice.

Some say some breeds of dogs cant be owned without this or that. Some say some handlers will be a bad combination for this or breed, and that situation they are in will only end in failure.. Only to be amazed when the complete opposite is the end result.. I have seen it many times myself. And I have been wrong myself. I have also been right many of times. And I HAVE seen handlers ruin great dogs.

My breeder has 6 dogs, all indoors, the guy is an only father. Every time I come over hes either yelling at his boys because of what they did or didn't do, or a kid throwing something and breaking it while yelling back at him. The dogs are around this constantly, they are not broken... but they sure as hell don't like the yelling! Like I said, caught one peeing in the corner, when father was screaming at his oldest boy one day. But the dog is far from a puddle in the mud, far from ruined. The dogs work, and trial. They are decent dogs. I couldn't imagine if when he was younger, he didn't get a dog... Very scary thought....I actually don't think the dogs could have a better home around here...

I will keep all advice in mind. And have to see what the future holds.
I also brought it up at work today. But got the likes of "well if you know what it takes, you are prepared for it, and dedicated enough, it will work."
I will have to see where life goes from here!

Also I would like to add, I do not believe there is anything wrong with getting a dog best suited for ANY activity or sport a seriously dedicated competitive handler is to be involved in.

I hear a lot of kids online talking about how noble of them it is that they got a border collie "because they had been the best suit for companionship", and they had "not thought about nationals when they picked their puppy" from a well known sport breeder. All of that has is nonsense.
I will say I find my choice of getting a breed more suitable to my goals just fine. And i see many of serious handlers at work, who have companion dogs that are completely separate form their high level sport dogs they also own and got SOLY for sport.

I have gotten so many great responses through this entire thread. There really isn't much more for either of us to say.
I will keep all updated while i continue my deep inner quest, just in case anybody here is actually truly interested/concerned.

Thank you.

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Honestly, to get a dog because you feel it's the breed that will take you to national-level competition is not the reason to get a dog of the breed - you get the dog that suits you, and that you will suit, and see where you both take each other.

 

Once again, we need a big ol' like button.

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And I am getting him soly for sport performance. Hes my performance child/pup.

 

Never get a dog solely for sport performance or anything else, it isn't fair to heap so much ambition on it. What if it gets injured or just doesn't make the grade? What then?

 

You owe it to any dog you get to value it for what it is, not for how it might fulfil your ambitions.

 

I have a collie pup bought with the plan for it to be successful in agility but what I wanted really was a dog that would be motivated to learn, whatever we ended up doing together - and I wanted a dog with a nice temperament.

 

It would be a disappointment if he doesn't turn out to be good at agility but not the end of the world. Glass half full it might lead us down the path to a different challenge.

 

Just to add that I don't like the sound of that breeder at all. I would want to find one who is considerate to their dogs and who would not keep them in such a stressful and unsuitable environment. How does he plan to raise the puppies? Doesn't sound like he is doing a great job with his kids from your description.

 

When I went to see my dog for the first time there were a lot of dogs around, some loose, some penned in outbuildings. All were happy and friendly and noone was yelling. That's what I would want to see.

 

If I were you I would keep looking and keep away from sport people as far as possible.

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Especially if you're talking AKC nationals.... you see tons of breeds there. I've been to watch it and there were a lot of various breeds that made the cut.

 

But yeah, I don't get the idea of getting a breed that doesn't suit someone (generally speaking) outside of sports just because the breed is good at sports.

 

I got my guy with agility as a consideration. But I also wanted a nice companion dog who was fun to do things with and that I enjoyed. I don't think it's wrong to stack the odds for a successful sport partnership. I really hope my guy likes agility and is good at it (so far seems to be!) But I don't think it's a good idea to get a dog SOLELY for sports. What if he gets injured or he just isn't that good? I've seen that happen a few times. People start out with the family dog then go get a BC for all these hopes and dreams and the BC is not that good at the sport. Then you drop out of agility and have a dog you don't enjoy owning as a companion and then what? Doesn't seem very fair to the dogs to me.

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Well, a lot of people i see daily, would not have dogs, would not be trialing if we didn't get dogs for sport.

Now, i would like to say that i believe a border collie can very well "suit my life". I do believe i have one trait "being a loud person in general", that will most likely need to be altered and worked on. But a trait should not count one as "not best suited for an entire breed".
Again, if i had told people flat out not to get a dog for sport, because of a personality trait, there would be a lot of empty space in my day, and im sure i would be very low on cash.... not to mention lots of good dogs and handlers would not exist.

And yes, i have also told people not to get certain breeds. Because they absolutely had NO right getting the breed. (they had NO time, NO experience, NOT enough patience necessary) Only to have those same people leave me. And one day come back in my face with a nice titled dog. And a very happy, healthy, team at that.
The way the world works is complex.

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I'm afraid I have to add one more thing to the conversation . . .

 

I see now that you're male. I don't believe that was on your profile before.

 

Many border collies tend to be even more sensitive to loud men than they are to similar women. Don't really know why, but we see tons of dogs coming into rescue who are terrified of men for no apparent reason. In some cases we know they haven't been abused by men. In some cases they're more afraid of soft spoken men than they are of loud women.

 

Take it for what it's worth, but just wanted to point this out . . .

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Please excuse me. Im not sure how to quote, im not savy when it comes to that stuff...
I will address posts by name if that is alright.

Mum24dog.
Lets not ignore that 70 percent of the world still gets any dog of any breed, with little to no thought of the dogs needs, finances, future events, kids, ECT.
I worry far less about people buying dogs solely to fulfill a purpose, Than the average joe, getting a border collie for a house dog. Because they are smart dogs. And they saw one on tv. And they jog a lot on the weekends. (you may not see these dogs, but i see them a lot. THEY are miserable. Beyond dead inside. And you know what gets me?.....nobody even notices it... when i point out they have "killed" their good dog, they simply say "its just a dog, why are you so mad? I just wanted you to teach him not to bark when hes in his crate for 10 hours a day.")

Injuries? They happen. That's life. What about them?

Speaking of injuries stopping a dog and handler's "sport career".

My good friend just paid real good money for a great dog. Not a green dog. Paid the price of a trained dog, not a started dog... haha i am ranting. He paid thousands. Double digits.
The dog tore his ligament in one leg. And his other leg is now acting up after surgery... Well all of this has led to "thinking about adding another companion dog to my life."
We laugh, and call out to him, "the most expensive companion dog ever. Even more expensive than your average well bred designer labadocavamalashit" Ha, read that out loud?
The dog sadly has bad luck. The handler too. That's life.

When a dogs injured like this, like my current dog is, they become real neat companion only dogs. :)
And when we can afford it, and have time. We add another dog, another great prospect, one we can work with till our sport obsessive dog hearts desire.

This next dog i am getting, will hopefully god bless, not end up retired early. And everything is in favor of him being able to really run well.

I already have my own retired dog, companion only, due to injury and slightly due to not being suited for certain work.
And am looking to get back into the world with my own dog again. Not on the side lines coaching. Not a CO OWN dog. But my OWN. 100percent mine to work. :wub:

Mum24dog, don't you dare jinx this puppy!!! :angry: haha. :D

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Also, now that i am reading full comments. I would like to end it here. Nothing said at this point in thread is going to do any good, for anybody.

We are getting into comments that are a little bit harshly opinionated. And a bit too criticizing yet without great knowledge of entire situations.
Such as advice commenting how is my breeder (who has been breeding and working border collies for over 24 years) is going to raise a litter without stress.. and that he seems to be inconsiderate to his dogs. And not to mention how he is raising his boys, who are trouble makers who have yet to move out of dads house.
Along with advice that i (who literally pays my bills by my career, that i hope to grow, working with dogs) should stay away from performance people at this point.

There truly is no reason to continue thread. Good GREAT advice has been dropped in the first few threads. And it has been taken into deep consideration by me. I appreciate it.
We have all had time to voice kind opinions, now we can move on. I will keep in touch with board. But this thread is beating the dead horse.

Plus i am quite sure breeder is on this board. He used to be very active on it.... We need to realize we may hurt people feelings, just to voice an opinion.

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Along with advice that i (who literally pays my bills by my career, that i hope to grow, working with dogs) should stay away from performance people at this point.

 

I'm not the person who wrote that, but I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money I don't have that that was meant to refer to performance breeders (i.e people breeding border collies for sports) rather than performance people (i.e. competitors) in general.

 

Mum24dog, please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Not to beat a dead horse, but in your original post it seemed your biggest worry was that you may ruin a border collie pup if you get one. Then you proceed to give information that appears you may not be a great match for a border collie. Members express their concern and you don't want to head that advice, so be it. I agree there are far worse matches then yours for a border collie to be raised, based on the fact that it sounds like it will have a good active full life with you. I don't get how yelling and dragging by the scruff is approriate in your day to day routine, I don't think that has anything to do with personality it's a choice you allow yourself. Glad to hear you train with positive methods though. But the point of my long winded post is really just to say, if you ask a question you must be prepared to hear, any advice that may given to you. I didn't read anything anyone wrote that should hurt the feelings of the breeder.

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A dog who is a bad fit for your training style is not going to get you to agility nationals.

IF YOU CAN NOT EFFECTIVELY TRAIN THE DOG YOU ARE NOT GOING TO AGILITY NATIONALS WITH THAT DOG, however great a trainer you are in general, or however awesome the dog may be. It will never live up to its full potential and your full potential as a trainer will never be seen on the course.

 

I am not a loud person - in fact, I'd dare say I'm a soft one. I'm not very physical, either.

 

I own a 2 year old GSD mix (and by all accounts behaviorally pretty much a GSD). He is a hard, bomb proof, physical, dog. He is a wonderful, smart, eager dog. His training at 2 is not as far along as my Border Collie's at 6 months.

 

He is not less biddable than she is. He is not less intelligent than she is. He has MORE drive than she does. Why is his training stunted? Because we don't mesh. He wants speed and noise and energy and excitement and rough housing and loud voices fire him up and make him go. That's not me. So the times I can tap into all that stuff? Limited.

 

Meanwhile, Molly is soft. More than an 'eh' or 'nope' and she's drooping and her ears or down. I once had to physically grab and move her like you're describing to stop her dashing out our front door. She melted down. Wouldn't look at me. Wouldn't walk past me. Wouldn't work for me or with me for a good hour. When she did it was uncertainly and that's not real useful on an agility course. That hour is the whole class/lesson/ring time.

How do I live with a dog like that? A lot more easily, as it turns out, than I live with the dog who wants me to be UP and LOUD and SERIOUS and EXCITING and PHYSICAL all the time. Because that's not my life and that's not me.


You need to find a dog who will work with your training style, life and personality. Working or not, unless you can do a 180 on your training style and lifestyle, this dog isn't taking you anywhere but to heartache for you both. If you can do that, well. Maybe, but I don't think you'll enjoy the process much, and I don't think the dog will be much fooled unless you back it up with legitimate change in your temperament.

 

It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, it means that you're going to have to make either dog or yourself into something you're not for it to work. We all know how often that works, right? (Spoiler: It doesn't. Ever).

 

Bottom line? They are SENSITIVE, soft dogs. It's part of what makes them what they are - a big, big part of it. It's what makes them work with shepherds and read sheep flocks. Finding a border without that is going to be like finding a GSD who doesn't like to bite things for fun. Are they out there? Yes. Are they the common? No.

And honestly if you lose that sensitivity you're going to make what makes a border collie a good agility dog in the process. Handler (and general) sensitivity's a huge piece of that puzzle.

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Hi TheCuriousOne! Thanks for sticking out with the thread so far! I think one thing you'll find on these board is that most threads end up being thought-provoking discussions for all involved, even long after the OP's questions have been answered! So if this or any other thread continues to be talked about, it's largely for the sake of discussion, not because you're being singled out! :) These threads are available for anyone to view from here on out, and perhaps something will be said that will mean things to someone in the future searching under this topic. I stalked these boards for 4 years going through old topics before getting my first BC, sometimes the questions posted to this forum help far more than the one who asked the question.

 

One thing you should know right off the bat (if you don't already) is that the people of these boards are very passionate about the breed. If you haven't read the "READ THIS FIRST" post at the top of the forum page, it should help you see where some of these statements are coming from. There are a wide variety of people on this forum, but the vast majority of people have working ABCA registered dogs. I don't want to mention AKC, but if you do a search on the topic I think you'll find out where a lot of people come from. That's where some of the performance/sport comments are coming from. There are plenty of active sports competitors on the board, and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who didn't support such endeavors. What everyone WILL reject are sport breeders, or breeders that select for anything other than ability on stock. The people here are incredibly knowledgeable, even if sometimes it comes across a little strong. :)

 

The talk about selecting a breed for sport can be an interesting topic of discussion, if you don't mind if people continue to talk about it. I know the average period of time someone spends in a particular dog sport tends to be a small number, something like less than 2 years. I'd hate to see someone (not you, the OP, in particular) get a border collie because "those are the really fast dogs that always win that cool thing where the dog does jumps". I'm amazed at how many people look at my dog and associate him with agility, rather than working sheep or cattle. And many of the really top agility competitors are dogs I suspect I'd never want to live with. I don't do agility (I hope to in the future) but I can see that there's a big difference between the super driven dogs that whip around and are prone to making errors versus the slightly slower, more reliable type. I'm sure everyone has a preferred type, though I would predict that the type of dogs that win big are not dogs that a beginner should be running. But hey, I really don't know anything about the sport! I don't know about the OP's experience in agility. It seems reasonable to look for a high end competitor if one has already done agility for a while, but looking for a top of the line agility dog in a first border collie seems really ambitious! And who the heck can tell from 8 weeks who's going to be the "real deal" anyway??

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I'm not the person who wrote that, but I'd be willing to bet a whole lot of money I don't have that that was meant to refer to performance breeders (i.e people breeding border collies for sports) rather than performance people (i.e. competitors) in general.

 

Mum24dog, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

No actually, I meant stay away from performance people who seem to be giving the OP some strange ideas.

 

One example he gives is people who have companion dogs and other high performance dogs as if there is a difference. We have high performance dogs that are companion dogs too as all our friends competing at top level do too. We also have dogs that don't do agility but we don't distinguish because after all, most of their lives they are all our pets.

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Also, now that i am reading full comments. I would like to end it here. Nothing said at this point in thread is going to do any good, for anybody.

We are getting into comments that are a little bit harshly opinionated. And a bit too criticizing yet without great knowledge of entire situations.

Such as advice commenting how is my breeder (who has been breeding and working border collies for over 24 years) is going to raise a litter without stress.. and that he seems to be inconsiderate to his dogs. And not to mention how he is raising his boys, who are trouble makers who have yet to move out of dads house.

Along with advice that i (who literally pays my bills by my career, that i hope to grow, working with dogs) should stay away from performance people at this point.

There truly is no reason to continue thread. Good GREAT advice has been dropped in the first few threads. And it has been taken into deep consideration by me. I appreciate it.

We have all had time to voice kind opinions, now we can move on. I will keep in touch with board. But this thread is beating the dead horse.

Plus i am quite sure breeder is on this board. He used to be very active on it.... We need to realize we may hurt people feelings, just to voice an opinion.

 

If I have hurt the breeder's feelings I apologise. It was not a personal attack on anyone but the description you gave which may or may not be accurate. You were the one who gave some very personal details of the breeder by which he might be identified.

 

My comment as to the raising of the kids was intended to be rather tongue in cheek but came over wrong. But bear in mind what has been said about collies often being afraid of men even if they have not been maltreated. Rescues are full of such dogs. If a bitch doesn't like shouting there is a good chance she will pass it on to her pups.

 

You said the dogs were kept in the house with a lot of shouting and throwing things going on. That is not a good environment for any dog, and certainly not good for raising a litter of puppies, hence my question as to how the breeder was going to raise them.

 

You also said that one dog speed an gone to itself while all the shouting was going on. This is serious if true. If you make your living from dogs you should be aware of the level of fear and stress that makes a dog urinate like that. But your relating of what the dog did may not be accurate.

 

No one is saying don't choose a dog with a view to doing a sport with it. I have done it myself six times with a 50% success rate so far. (Fingers crossed for the latest addition.) Just don't get one "solely" for sport as you said you were planning to do. And get the right fit of dog for you and your life. It wasn't until we were thinking of dog no 6 that I decided that I was prepared for a collie.

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Dear Doggers,

 

Most of us - not all - choose our dogs anticipating that - excepting extreme incompatibility - one sad day we'll bury them. I've friends who have one question of a dog: Will we win important sheepdog trials? Others ask: does this dog need me? I don't know any farmers/ranchers who ask: Will this sheepdog prove useful? because most presume they will be. In the very rare instances they're not they're shot or rehomed.

 

Friends who ask the first question often assume that (or the need question) are the only two questions anyone asks. That isn't so in my case and I doubt it's so for you.

 

I bought June because I needed a dog who'd help me be a better handler.

 

I bought Luke (after refusing him once) because of his "get the job done" attitude

 

I thought I was buying Jake because I'm short-winded and Jake's shedding skills would keep me from turning blue. In truth, I chose him because I saw signs the goofy teenager would mature into something beautiful.

 

I can't conceive of buying a dog that'd get me to the National Finals Sheepdog Trials. That's up to me.

 

Donald McCaig

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I couldn't agree more.

 

My pup has a lot of siblings described as "peas in a pod". They have gone to different types of home and all are likely to have the potential to do very well whatever their chosen activity. Some will achieve success, some less so, and it will be down to the handler / trainer whether they reach their full potential.

 

I didn't choose my pup as such. There were two left, one short coated, one long. I wanted short - job done.

 

Some people have the ability to get the very best out of any dog that comes their way, some can ruin the most promising. I'm somewhere in the middle I hope but am lucky to have my daughter to help with training and cover my deficiencies.

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I guess for me none of your posts sound like you actually like border collies. They seem to just be dogs that do the best in agility to you.

 

For the record again, I did pick a dog with sports in mind. So do most my agility friends. But my agility friends also pick breeds and dogs they love outside of the sport. One friend (who goes to akc nationals and world tryouts every year for what it's worth) is always asked when she's getting a BC because she sticks to another breed. But she doesn't enjoy BCs so why would she get one? Her breed fits her style better and they're more than capable of doing well and getting multiple MACHs and making nationals finals.

 

I'm not saying don't get a pup hoping to do agility and do it well but also put your personality and likes into the equation too. There are lots of breeds that have the potential to do really well in agility and might fit you and your training style better.

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To th OP - have you considered an ACD? might be a better mesh with your personal style. A soft dog can be frustrating to work with- and I'm not naturaly a loud person! One that runs away to pee in the corner due to yelling may work stock fine given the chance but shut down with a less self fulfilling activity. With my youngster I specifically wanted a bold, pushy pup. And he is, but he learns quick with a soft touch.

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I never wanted a collie but my daughter did and she's definitely more of a collie person than I am, my taste in dogs is more eclectic. I didn't dislike them, just felt no need for one.

 

And we've got another because we want to put into practice what we learned from the first.

 

She's the ambitious one as far as agility is concerned but I'm the one who lives with the dogs full time.

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To th OP - have you considered an ACD? might be a better mesh with your personal style. A soft dog can be frustrating to work with- and I'm not naturaly a loud person! One that runs away to pee in the corner due to yelling may work stock fine given the chance but shut down with a less self fulfilling activity. With my youngster I specifically wanted a bold, pushy pup. And he is, but he learns quick with a soft touch.

 

My rescue collie mix would pee in fear if anyone looked at him when we got him. He could have been good at agility but always had a fear of making a mistake, even with the gentlest of handling. He wasn't bad but it held him back.

 

He showed no sign of a talent for stock work but a friend's even more terrified rescue is doing very well at it. Fearful dogs (any dogs) gain confidence from understanding what is expected of them and shouting isn't a good communication tool.

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I am beginning to think a " working and trialing" breeder in Curious One's statement is referring to agility only. Not true " working". I believe he is using these terms incorrectly in regards to the way we interpret them on this Board. Which once again, is the antithesis of this Board's philosophy's and is clearly stated in the "Read this First" pinned post.

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I honestly don't care who the breeder is, if they have so much anger/hostility in a household where pups are being raised, to the point of pups peeing on themselves, then there's something seriously wrong and I feel sorry for any dog being raised in such an environment. Maybe such a pup would be able to withstand the OP's admitted loudness, but dragging a dog about by the scruff while yelling at it? Wow. Not someone I would want training my dog(s). <--And if the OP is still reading, I am sorry because I believe you'll see this as a personal attack, and I understand that your German shepherd is okay with this sort of treatment, but I can assure you that most border collies won't be, so unless you can temper your own behavior and training methods to suit a more sensitive breed, I fear both you and your border collie will be unhappy, your dog more so that you.

 

FWIW, I get dogs with work in mind, but I don't think I'd go out and buy a dog of a breed (working style) that didn't suit me just because I thought it could win the finals for me. For me, a very large part of what I do with my dogs is based on a mutual understanding and admiration of the breed I have. And honestly, if the dog wasn't the dog for me (all in, from both the human's and the dog's side of the equation), then I understand that I would never be able to get top performance out of that dog.

 

I had an offer of a dog (mainly to foster, but she was mine to have and work with if I wanted), but I had to consider the number I already had and whether I really wanted a space (limited because even my working dogs are pets who live in the house with me) to be taken by a dog who probably never would work. I don't get a dog with the idea it will take me to the National (sheepdog) Finals. All I can do is get the best bred dog possible, considering my training and handling style and the dog's potential based on breeding and relatives, and the rest is up to the two of us together.

 

I don't want to have to search back through the thread for the post to which I'm referring with my upcoming statement, but I want to point out that 2 hours of frisbee is high impact on a growing pup's joints, even if you aren't asking the pup to jump. There's a reason running is consider high impact, and two hours of chasing a frisbee with all four feet on the ground is still way too much in my opinion. I seriously hope your pup doesn't pay for that down the road. As the owner of a 13-year-old who is very painfully arthritic, I would hate to think that something I did to her as a youngster--something preventable--was the cause of her constant discomfort now, You may get lucky and your dog will see no ill effects, but for anyone else reading this, please research what's acceptable activity for a youngster whose growth plates haven't closed.

 

J.

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I honestly don't care who the breeder is, if they have so much anger/hostility in a household where pups are being raised, to the point of pups peeing on themselves, then there's something seriously wrong and I feel sorry for any dog being raised in such an environment. Maybe such a pup would be able to withstand the OP's admitted loudness, but dragging a dog about by the scruff while yelling at it? Wow. Not someone I would want training my dog(s). <--And if the OP is still reading, I am sorry because I believe you'll see this as a personal attack, and I understand that your German shepherd is okay with this sort of treatment, but I can assure you that most border collies won't be, so unless you can temper your own behavior and training methods to suit a more sensitive breed, I fear both you and your border collie will be unhappy, your dog more so that you.

 

 

It does worry me that someone who appears to be giving advice to others how to treat and train their dogs doesn't see anything wrong with the scenario of the breeder's home (even though he admits that the dogs don't like the yelling) or with scruffing and yelling at a dog as described.

 

If the breeder's family circumstances are temporarily such that a chaotic and aggressive environment prevails then why is he thinking of adding to it by having a litter of pups? It sounds a very bad time to me. Pups need quiet and calm, as does the dam. They need a gentle introduction to the world, not to be thrown in at the deep end.

 

I'm guessing that at this time of year it's unlikely that a litter would be raised away from the house. Sometimes "home raised" isn't a good thing. I have a lovely, confident pup that I doubt had ever seen the inside of a house before I picked him up but he took the transfer in his stride.

 

This seems yet another thread where the questioner doesn't like the consistent responses they are getting.

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it is possible to train a dog to be more comfortable with noise, but it is much harder to do if the dog/pup already has a negative experience or association with noise and chaos. It sounds like from your description, that the dogs/pups are living in a very stressful environment. Noise combined with chaos is very hard on this breed. border collies don't forget. What they learn first becomes their default. Honestly, I would consider looking elsewhere for a pup.

 

The dog I do agility with is pretty good with noise, but does get very excited with all of the action. he came from a cow/calf operation, but he has no talent on stock. he can handle a lot of noise and chaos and loves kids. But, I also did a lot of training to get him use to it - as do a lot of agility folks I know.

 

my pup that I got for stock work, can handle about anything while working, but off stock, he doesn't even like the noise from the TV. So we have modified our behavior a lot around the house.

 

Don't be too hard on your agility friends that did not congratulate you. there is a misguided belief that you can only do well in agility if you have a BC, so folks have seen a lot of handlers get BCs that ended up being miserable with them. some are rehomed, some go into rescue and some stay in the home with a very tenuous relationship. I do also know plenty of people that switched to BCs that worked out amazing

 

I would also say, that as someone that teaches basic obedience for pet dog owners, one of the most important things we want to see is that people choose a breed that is a good fit for their lifestyle. I don't know how many people have come through our doors with dogs that they ended up getting rid of, because it wasn't what they expected. A lot of people in agility also foster dogs or teach classes, so they tend to really want people to think hard before making this kind of decision.

 

So don't be offended if people give you an opinion that is not what you want to hear (especially when you asked for it). Just know that people are coming from a good place and trying to be an advocate for this breed.

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