Sheepdog or cattledog trials? Any preference?

[SoHo]

I'll be testing my dog on sheep in a week or two to see if she's interested and has the aptitude for it. If so, I'd like to try my hand at training her for trialing, assuming we both really like doing it. That made me wonder which type of trials I'd be training her for, cattle or sheep. Sheep seems like the logical choice just because I wouldn't know where to find cattle to train her on. Sheep are easier to locate, and they're safer. I also think my dog is too soft for cattle, but I'm basing that on pretty much nothing other than intuition.

 

What about others? Do you do both if the dog can work both or do you specialize in one or the other? What are the pro's and con's of each, and why do you prefer one to the other?

[Debbie Meier]

Your going to need to see what the dogs has the aptitude for. The basic training is the same, develop their natural ability to handle livestock, get directions and stop, build up to distance work. Start out on sheep and you can later introduce to cattle to see if the dog can handle the pressure that goes along with making them stop, move and keeping them together.

[rufftie]

in my simple opinion, unless I had cattle, and needed a cattle working dog, I wouldn't subject my dog to the dangers of working cattle. having only worked sheep myself, I may be talking out my hat, but it just seems so much more dangerous for the dog than sheep herding.

the other reason I prefer sheep is they are more prevalent in my area as are sheep herding trials and trainers.

[Debbie Meier]

I think again, the key is to find yourself a trainer that has proven that they can successfully trial at the USBCHA open level, even been to the USCBCHA Nat'l Finals. I found first hand that working with people who say they could do that or that say that they have trained dogs to the level but don't trial themselves at that level can lead you down a big dead end street.

[Mark Billadeau]

We only keep sheep and therefore only trial on sheep. Personally, I feel that to excel at trialing one needs to understand the livestock you're working which I found did not happen for me until after we started raising our own sheep. We have no interest in keeping cattle; we don't like the impact cattle have had on our pastures when we've had cattle on them.

[Maxi]

Personally, I feel that to excel at trialing one needs to understand the livestock you're working

I don't trial (but do a fair bit of shepherding with my dogs), i completely agree with Mark's statement that it is important to undertand the stock you work. One of my dogs is very keen to work cattle, but for me, the risk to her being injured is just too great and so I keep her focused on her sheep work.

[stockdogranch]

I'll agree with what has been said. You absolutely must understand and learn to read the stock you'll be working in order to be at all successful. Over the years I found that I was more intrigued with practical, everyday work with my dogs than sheep trialling, particularly after developing my flock of sheep to a decent size.

 

I started off in sheep trialling many years ago. I had a dog who was a nice, quiet worker. He would do a nice outrun, come up behind the sheep, walk in, give some eye, walk in some more, and then turn his head sideways, and ever so gently, down at the ground level, give a little heel nudge. "Thank You!" and we were DQd. Again and again.

 

I know that that is generally what happens at a trial, but to me it seemed that my dog was doing what I would consider nice, appropriate work at home on recalcitrant ewes. My way of thinking was to maybe take a few points off, allowing for the dog that would lift without the heel to get a better score. But I got really tied of donating my money for a dog who did really nice work. So I tried cattle, and have never looked back. I like loading them into trailers at a trial, or crossing creeks, or navigating all kinds of never-before-seen obstacles, and I especially like the different kind of sorting obstacles we do at cattle trials.

 

But. Having said that, there most definitely is a greater chance that the dog can or will get hurt. Cattle are bigger, kick like hell, and are much less likely to move because some little 40 lb. dog tells them to. It takes (in general) a more assertive kind of dog to successfully move cattle (at least until they are dog broke). And again, generally speaking, the dog needs to be closer to the stock to move them, and a good heel and a clean nose bite are needed. They don't need to be used unless necessary, but the dog must be willing to do that.

 

So, unless you have a particular reason for wanting to work cattle, and have a dog bred to work cattle (not all dogs will), then you are probably better to stick with sheep, as they are easier and less expensive to keep, more readily available for training on, and sheep trials, depending on where you live, are often more prevalent.

 

A

[Andie182]

My breeder's dogs primarily work cattle because they are cattle ranchers. Several of them have been worked on sheep but they can be a little rough on them. They grip a lot more and much harder because they are used to how hard the cattle fight.

[Gloria Atwater]

SoHo, I'l echo what others have said.

Only take your dog to cattle if you can find someone who is successfully trialing and doing well. There are plenty of folks out there who "have cow dogs" but a lot of them just want a dog that bites, bites, bites. That won't get you anything but an injured dog. Plus, you have to learn and know the livestock you're working. Whoever helps you with your dog needs to be able to teach you about cows, because they are different.

Also, it depends on the dog's courage and aptitude. Some dogs can be kind of wild when starting on sheep, but you put them on cows that don't move the same, don't react the same and are just as apt to turn and say, "What are you, little dog?" and you may find your dog has an entirely different outlook. Cows may simply be too big, heavy, cumbersome and intimidating for some dogs. The one thing you don't want is a dog who is scared of the cows so he compensates by dashing in willy-nilly and getting kicked.

Finally, I avoid working cattle because the plain fact is, a dog on cows is going to get kicked. Sooner or later, it will happen. It's just how cows are and some cows are kickier than others. Do you want to take that risk with your dog? Hubby and I worked for cow outfits years ago and we just accepted that some dog injuries would occur. But our dogs weren't super gung-ho, we were just moving cows on ranches, not for trials, and we got lucky that no injuries really put our dogs on the bench for very long. Trialing is more intense, though, and I think the chance of injury is therefore higher.

I took my Aussie to cattle for her first time a couple weeks ago. Just 300 pound calves but sure enough, within minutes, she got cocky, got too close and got a kick on the shoulder. She was fine, went right back to work, but I bet she was sore for a day or two after. So that's a thing to bear in mind. A weaned calf is bigger than most full grown sheep and trial cattle will be bigger than that.

Not to discourage you if cows are really what you want to do! Just to warn you to make sure you get the best training possible for yourself and your dog, if you go that way.
Cheers ~

Gloria

[Sue R]

Celt is certainly "sheep-bred" and not "cattle-bred". He is a diplomat with the cattle, quite a bit insecure, and my right-hand-man. His excellent stock-reading skills make him a joy to take out for a job on the farm. He has preferred to show his teeth rather than use them and until working alongside Dan (who is not a diplomat, who has courage and grit in over-abundance compared to self-preservation, and who has no reservation about using his teeth), he never had an injury. He now sports a broken canine, thanks to the oomph he picked up working with Dan. Dan, on the other hand, lacks three canines due to his over-use of "dental diplomacy".

 

I never underestimate the strength of cattle but I will admit that my worst injury came at the hooves of a sheep...all stock work is a risk.

[Gloria Atwater]

Well, true, dat! I've never been trampled by a cow, (though not for lack of a few trying,) but I've gone arse over teakettle and a few other uncomfortable positions while working with sheep.

~ Gloria