New to BC

[Panda.arteaga]

Hello all

This is my first post so if there is info that you need that I haven't provided just let me know and I will elaborate. Any and all help welcome.

My husband and I have taken in a 5 year old full blood BC. Neither of us have ever owned one before and have been trying to research the best way to take care of one. So let me give y'all some back story.

 

We took Bandit in about 4 months ago from my great uncle who had him from a puppy. My uncle is a very inactive person so Bandit didn't get walks or playtime with others. He was pretty much always yelled at to go away. Why he ever got him I do not know. So when he was moving and told me he wasn't taking Bandit I immediately took him in. He is a great dog but due to his upbringing has quite a few qwerks. I wish I had found this group earlier because after reading some I realized I should have went with my gut and renamed him but everyone told me I was crazy. He cowers when his name is spoken. We do have another dog named Daisy she is a mix breed that we adopted about 4 years ago sadly they really don't interact with each other. Daisy has never had any interest in play.

 

So Bandits qwerks are

1) he goes crazy over shadows like him is hunting them. He will stand at stare at them for long periods of time or he will start jumping at the ones on the floor.

2) he runs and hides when you call him by name (does anyone think it would be possible to rename him at this point or is it too late)

3) he has snapped at my youngest daughter a few times now and also nipped her in her face when she went to say goodnight to him. Now for this instance we believe this happened because he was under a chair and I am not sure if he was asleep at the time so I think he was startled. Also his bottom teeth look like they have been filed down was told they weren't so he must have broken them at some point. Had he had those that nipped might have been way worse. He has snapped at me and my husband as well usually when we are trying to get him out from under something.

 

He loves his ball and playing soccer. And since he has been with us my husband takes him on runs though not daily and we play ball with him. Being that he is already 5 I am no trainer and really can't afford one I just would like to know how to work his mind and what kind of exercise he needs both physically and mentally and how would I train him to have a job.

 

Ok so I will answer any and all questions for more info there might be other things he is doing that I am not even noticing.

 

Thanks

Amanda

[waffles]

It is never too late to rename him. I doubt dogs know their name is somehow different from any other command. I got Levi when he was two years old and his name was Kojak.I never used it and just started calling him Levi and rewarding him when he looked at me. If the word Bandit upsets him then I would just stop using it. Instead teach a recall and just call him over by just using "come" or my recall word is "here". Once he knows how to recall to your chosen word you could start saying his new name like 'Buddy, come". Or if he is food motivated just quietly start saying his new name when you feed him or give him a treat or when he makes eye contact with you or glances your way.

 

If he is hiding under something why try to pull him out? Let him be and let him come out on his when when he is ready. He needs to feel safe somewhere and may enjoy a crate, even if never introduced to one before. That way you can also let everyone in the family know that when he is resting in his safe spot to leave him alone.

 

By the way he is incredibly adorable! With time he will gain confidence and learn to trust you and your husband. Levi used to roll over submissively whenever you looked at him practically. With time his confidence has gone up and that has stopped.

 

It sounds like you are doing great for him already! Keep up the Exercising, walks together, trick training (you could google confidence building tricks for dogs for ideas), and he sounds like he will flourish with you!

[waffles]

Wanted to add that if you are new to training, I always suggest looking up 'kiko pup' on youtube. She has an endless amount of tutorial videos for trick training and for problem solving unwanted behaviors. They are very user-beginner friendly.

[Cass C]

1) he goes crazy over shadows like him is hunting them. He will stand at stare at them for long periods of time or he will start jumping at the ones on the floor.

 

This sounds like an obsession due to boredom to me. This is going to take a lot of training to teach him how not to do this, so start with redirecting his attention with something better like a ball or a treat. Then slowly start using a command like 'leave it', which will mean that he needs to leave the shadow alone and do something else.

 

2) he runs and hides when you call him by name (does anyone think it would be possible to rename him at this point or is it too late)

 

It is never to late to change a dogs name, but I would make it sound NOTHING like his current name if the fear is as bad as you say. You can play the name game which is where you say his new name and as soon as he looks at you he gets a treat. Then after he starts looking consistently call him from another room and when he arrives he gets a treat. Dogs don't really understand what a 'name' is they just know that is what you say when you want their attention, so the association becomes if they get in trouble when you say their name or something good happens when you say their name. Whatever you do DO NOT use his new name when you are mad at him or when you are calling his name for something unpleasant. This is especially important since he has already had a negative association with being called.

 

3) he has snapped at my youngest daughter a few times now and also nipped her in her face when she went to say goodnight to him. Now for this instance we believe this happened because he was under a chair and I am not sure if he was asleep at the time so I think he was startled. Also his bottom teeth look like they have been filed down was told they weren't so he must have broken them at some point. Had he had those that nipped might have been way worse. He has snapped at me and my husband as well usually when we are trying to get him out from under something.

 

This sounds like fear aggression possibly from abuse, which I don't have much experience with. I would recommend you don't try to pull the dog out of hiding places, but lure him out with something great like a hot dog or boiled chicken. For now do your best not to sneak up on him and make sure you have his attention before you try to pet him/move him, because it is possible he has hearing or sight problems and you're startling him.

 

Has he been to a vet since you got him? If not I would really suggest he go ASAP, just to rule out anything medical as the reason for snapping.

 

He loves his ball and playing soccer. And since he has been with us my husband takes him on runs though not daily and we play ball with him. Being that he is already 5 I am no trainer and really can't afford one I just would like to know how to work his mind and what kind of exercise he needs both physically and mentally and how would I train him to have a job.

 

Have you tried filling a kong with peanut butter or wet/dry food mixture and freezing it? My dogs get one every night as a way to challenge them mentally to get all the food out. There are other puzzle toys as well that work, but my dogs take the longest and seem to wear out the most with the kongs.

 

Also training is great learning tricks or obedience can really wear a dog out. I can give you ideas if you need/want them.

[Cass C]

I just wanted to add that crate training is a great idea especially if you are consistent that no one is to mess with him in the crate.

[Panda.arteaga]

Thank y'all so much. first I want to say my husband did pull him out from under our bed before and that's when he got nipped. My husband won't allow the dogs in our room because they keep him up at night and we couldn't lure him out. We don't do that anymore we have since realized that he likes to be under things mostly the table or a chair. He was under the chair I was sitting on when my daughter tried to hug him good night and I really think she just startled him. And all the kids now know when he is lying down to try to get his attention from afar first and if he comes then they can pet or hug him. Over the past few weeks I have noticed some changes in him he is starting to relax more and comes to me if I have the right tone in my voice. Stern doesn't work for him he needs playful baby voices lol.

 

The one thing my uncle did do was take him to the vet religiously and he stayed at the vet for a couple of weeks before we took ownership since we were out of town when my uncle moved.

 

He will not let us groom him and I was going to have the vet do it but she told me they have had problems with him and would have to sedate him just to wash him which I thought was ridiculous.

[d112358]

He will not let us groom him and I was going to have the vet do it but she told me they have had problems with him and would have to sedate him just to wash him which I thought was ridiculous.

 

Counter-conditioning to grooming can be a very long slow process. I had a foster for about four months and I worked inch by inch to get him used to brushing and being combed out - and finally managed to give him a bath after I'd conditioned him to wearing a muzzle. I still work with him at the shelter (he was supposed to be a very temporary foster), and I'm the only one who can brush him or harness him. They knocked him out to give him a bath and a sanitary trim, which I thought was completely appropriate and way less stressful for him than being physically restrained by people he doesn't trust.

 

 

I would absolutely get him a crate and make it clear to everyone that his crate is his safe place that no one approaches.

 

As for games to play, you can work on confidence-building tricks like a nose touch to hand, a nose touch to target, shake/high-5, or catching treats in his mouth.

 

Ultimately, the more he associates you and your household with happy energy (lacking a better term - this could range from peaceful downtime to fun play) and not with the things that scare him (his name, harsh words, people grabbing at him), the easier he'll be to live with.

[Panda.arteaga]

Ok now several have said to crate and I have never crated a dog before and really don't care to but could it be possible to just train him to a particular spot as of the moment his spot is under the table which I have been working on him using a bed under there and maybe he will follow the bed to a better more secluded area if he wants to be alone. Or is that naïve of me to think I just don't wanna cage him if I don't have to. Especially since I have another dog that has never had to be crated I don't want to start a rivalry. They already don't acknowledge each other. Also how is the best way to get them to socialize with each other?

[RemsMom]

You can have a crate and never close the door if that bothers you. I have crate trained all of my puppies but I kept the crate even after they were adults and were reliable. My German Shepherd is seven years old and is sleeping in his crate right now with the door open. Don't think of a crate as a cage. Think of it as a den, a safe place where the dog can get some quiet time.

[Cass C]

I agree with Rem's mom you don't have to close the door and some crates even have removable doors. Personally I have never owned a non-crate trained dog, because it is great for them to have a place to go where no one will bother them. Also if they ever have to be on restricted activity for some reason it helps for them to already be used to a crate.

 

My dogs do not have to sleep I their crate once they are potty trained, but I leave the door open and sometimes they choose to anyway, because it is their safe spot. Also if they aren't feeling well my dogs will go rest in their crate with the door open.

 

One note if you decide to go the crate route make sure that it is either a hard sided crate or put something over a wire crate to give the dog a more secure feeling in the crate.

 

Going to a bed is great, but it won't give them the same security as a crate if they are seeking out hiding spots.

[d112358]

I think we've focused on the crate because he likes the feeling of being closed-in. It should mimic the feeling he gets under a table, or the bed, or a chair, with the bonus that it's space just for him, so he won't have to contend with people getting too close. I have a crate I keep out with no door; one of my terriers uses it as her retreat when the rest of the household gets too loud or the other dogs are tearing around playing.

 

It's kind of like an indoor doghouse, or a tiny one-dog-occupancy room in the house.

[Camden's Mom]

We don't do that anymore we have since realized that he likes to be under things mostly the table or a chair. He was under the chair I was sitting on when my daughter tried to hug him good night and I really think she just startled him. And all the kids now know when he is lying down to try to get his attention from afar first and if he comes then they can pet or hug him.

 

I would suggest not trying to hug him for now... hugging can be extremely threatening to a dog, especially one with such a sordid background and with whom you've shared your home for such a short period of time. Right now I'd work on building trust. He may come around to being a love bug who doles out hugs left and right, but please don't force the issue. Give him time to feel comfortable and safe with your family. For whatever it's worth we have a recent thread about hugging our own dogs. You may want to give it a read (and there are some cute stories in it too). http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=37180

 

Can I just cast a HUGE vote for changing his name? Heck, I don't even want to refer to him by that name in this response, silly I know. But seriously, if the poor guy is shrinking away every time you say the word "Bandit" I think it's time to have a family sit down and decide what his new perfect name is. As others have suggested, once you've picked his new name make it all fun, games, rewards and love. His new (and better) life with you deserves a clean slate, IMO.

 

The shadow chasing sounds to me like compulsive behavior that probably started because his needs were not being met. He was bored and ignored and it's probably a, albeit unhealthy, way he found to entertain himself. Part of me wonders if the behavior will begin to fade naturally as his new family meets his needs and his life is more interesting. I would absolutely NOT encourage (or allow any family members to encourage in any way) the behavior. I think with a new dog coming from a difficult background I'd start with ignoring and distracting him from the behavior. If you do not see the behavior begin to fade over time them you may need to actively work on desensitization or counter conditioning him to the light/shadows.

 

He (who is awaiting his new name ) is a beautiful dog. I wanted to say "thank you" for rescuing him and bringing him into your home. He's a lucky dog to have landed with you. It's clear from your original post that you want to do right by him and give him a good life.

[Panda.arteaga]

As far as the hugging goes that is something that he started with us not as much with the kids but with my husband and I. He was never around kids before so is still figuring them out. But he will crawl up my lap until he has his paws completely wrapped around my neck lol it is the sweetest and cutest thing ever! He also smiles at us so I know he is happy here. We can all see how much better he is doing since we got him.

 

I also finally found his breeding record and realized that his 6th birthday was a month ago on September 3rd!!!

 

Also should I be concerned that my dogs don't interact they don't fight they just don't seem to pay attention to each other. Unless you call one over to you then they both come lol

 

We actually had started calling him Bandito and I can't say it except for in a fun playful way and he seems to like it. But just wasn't sure since it is still so close to his other name.

[gcv-border]

All good advice ^^^^ so far.

 

I agree with changing his name to one that sounds NOTHING like his current name - which apparently has bad associations with it. He will learn it quickly if paired with treats - as several others have suggested above.

 

Hugging - can be very threatening. And if he is not used to small children, multiply the stress and threat he was feeling by manyfold. I think he was very good with only a mild nip. Also, for a new rescue dog, I would not do anything around their face - pet, hug, kiss, etc. until I know am sure they will not react negatively. Would you want a stranger coming up to you with a kiss, hug or rubbing your hair? Your family is still strange to him - 4 months is not a very long time.

 

I definitely also agree to using a crate. Search the word 'crate' or 'crating' to find past discussions (long) about using a crate.

 

I encourage you to purchase the book by Patricia McConnell called "Love Has No Age Limit" [available from her website]. It is very short and sweet and gives a good overview of many of the common problems (and how to solve them) that can be associated with some rescue dogs.

 

Good Luck.

[Gloria Atwater]

Congratulations on taking in such an absolute cutie! Poor boy, sounds like he had a hard start but he's come to a good place.

You've got lots of good advice here, to which I'll say "dittos!" Getting him a crate, putting nice bedding in it and feeding him treats there may be a better thing than you expect. If he likes being under things, then he likes having a "den" and that's exactly what a crate is. If you put it in a place that's out of the main traffic areas of the house and near a place where he likes to be, chances are he'll figure it out himself. (And again - treats can work wonders.)

My girl, Gael, is an under-things kind of dog and she loves her crate at night. She sleeps with the door open, hasn't been closed in since she was grown, but that's her safe place. If there's thunder or anything scary outside, she goes in a doghouse under our stairs - same thing. It's a safe den. Some dogs just love dens!

Per hugging, that's great he's into physical contact! But for now, I'd say let him initiate the hugs. Don't let your daughter go to and give him hugs. He probably doesn't understand that she's offering love. Remember, hugging is not part of dog language. That's primate behavior. To dogs, another creature putting its legs over them is either a dominance or threat behavior. When he hugs you guys, it's submission/appeasement behavior - big difference. So, let him choose when he wants hugs, until he gets past some of his fear issues. (Plus, children can unnerve dogs simply because they are louder, more active and more unpredictable than adults. Give him time.)

It might help to think of him as a kind of trauma survivor. He's been neglected and hollered at and possibly grabbed in unkind ways, so he has a fear reflex in him. It sounds like he doesn't mean to bite, but if startled or scared, it's something he does without thought. It's sort of like someone who's come home from war or survived an abusive relationship: their experience leaves them hyper-reactive to things you and I might think are normal.

Per your dogs' interaction with each other, I wouldn't worry about it. If they're ignoring each other, that's way better than the alternative. Of course you'd like them to become pals and maybe someday they will, also but maybe they won't. It only matters to you, not to them.

Finally, I'll also echo what others have said: if he dives under something, do not try to pull him out. The bites are him trying to tell you that he's scared, he's way over threshold and he can't cope with being grabbed. Either leave him there or coax him out with a really good treat, but unless there's some hazard or danger in where he's at, don't pull him out any more. You can't force him to stop hiding under things. You can only reassure him over time that it's not necessary.

Best of luck with that cutie pie!

~ Gloria

[Gloria Atwater]

P.S. I also agree with totally changing his name. "Bandit" is a noise that meant bad, scary things in his old life, so when he hears it he feels afraid. Now he needs a new "noise" that brings happy feelings.

You may be surprised how quickly he takes to a new name, since the new name will be associated only with positive things.

~ Gloria

[Sue R]

Kudos to you for taking him into your home!

 

Others have given a wealth of great advice but I'll just add my agreement that many dogs do not like being hugged (giving a hug is a different thing) and many do not like someone's face in their face - particularly when they are in their "safe spot". And this dog sounds like he needs a safe spot after his previous upbringing.

 

If your daughter wants to "say goodnight", have her do something different that he might enjoy, like standing a non-threatening distance from him and tossing a few treats on the floor in front of where he is. Let her say, "Good-night!", toss the treats, and turn and walk away, letting him come out of his spot to enjoy her gifts. He will tend to associate her saying this with "good things coming my way" and it will be a positive association.

 

You've already realized that taking hold of him when he's in one of his spots and forcing him to come out is counterproductive and someone can and will get hurt. He's fearful and forcing him just reinforces the fear. If at all possible, once he can relax more, teach him that coming out when you call his *new name* will bring good rewards - praise, pets, treats, toys, whatever it takes for him to make good associations.

 

If you find there are times when you need to remove him from under something, you might consider letting him drag a short leash so that if you have to, you can use the leash - but only in a real need if there is no other way. You don't want to reinforce his fears. Accustom him to your taking hold of the leash, rewarding him (praise, pets, treats, whatever works), and letting go of the leash. You can also cause good associations with the leash - walks, for instance. My dogs are rarely on leash unless we go to town, but they all get excited when I pick up a leash because it means we are going somewhere, outside, walking, a car ride, to town, on vacation!

 

You need to be building good associations to replace the bad old associations. Very best wishes!

[d112358]

You could call him 'dito or D - it keeps some sort of connection to the old name of Bandit (through your new nickname bandito), without sounding anything like his old name.

[D'Elle]

Definitely change his name!!

I have fostered many dogs, and if a dog came from a bad situation of any kind I always, always changed the dog's name first thing. Make it sound completely different. He associates the name he has with getting punished or yelled at.

 

He is beautiful. Thanks for taking him in, and you have come to just the right place for advice and support. You have gotten a lot of good advice so far.

 

Just want to say that counter-conditioning for grooming, or anything else, doesn't necessarily have to be a very long slow process. sometimes it is,, sometimes not. I got a rescue dog one time who was terrified of being groomed. It only took me about two weeks to get him to accept the comb and brush, another two weeks and I could bathe and fully groom him with clippers.

 

It is not hard. I just started with really yummy treats that he loved, and did one brush stroke, one treat. One brush stroke, one treat. Did that about 15 times the first day. Next day, two brush strokes, one treat, then one brush stroke, one treat, then two brush strokes, and so on. I did this twice a day, slowly building up the number of brush strokes, and I don't even think it took two weeks before he was coming running to me every time he saw the brush in my hand. Now, a couple of years later, he still gets a nice treat each time he is brushed, but I can also do a full grooming and only give him one biscuit when we are all done and he is delighted.

 

Patience. One step at a time.

 

best of luck!

[Panda.arteaga]

The good night treat sounds like a very good idea thanks. I was talking to my husband tonight and letting him know what I have learned and he corrected me the incedent under the bed he just growled and my husband back off when he snapped was when the Plummer came and not knowing how he would react he was trying to get " new name coming soon" to go out in the back yard and he was being stubbon and refused so he had to grab his collar and pull him out. But again we haven't grabbed him like that again.

[CMP]

A collar grab is a very aggressive thing to do from a dog's perspective. A collar grab and pull would feel like a "put 'em up" to a dog who was not very comfortable with the person doing it.

 

Much better to get a leash and engage. The line between your hand and his neck will make you both feel less threatened.

 

If I am in a situation where a dog MUST go somewhere - for his or someone else's safety or it just has to happen - if there is any chance the high energy and stress will cause a meltdown I will sort of herd them out in front of me - if you can keep the biting end facing the same direction as you, you're good

 

Beautiful dog. You're getting lots of good advice and I am sure you will get it all worked out.

 

I might just add that dogs actually like crates. They dislike being told when to go into them, but they like the crates (by and large). They are den animals and a crate is like a den. It may be the greatest gift you can give an anxious dog.

[Panda.arteaga]

And his new name is ...... ZANDER! Protector of people

 

We are considering making a den for the pups under our stairs safer during a storm.

[GentleLake]

Don't have tome to read the whole thread now, but absolutely, rename him (I see you did).

 

The rescue I work with had a dog in foster care for a very long time. He ended up going to a different FH, and after a while, she had an animal communicator talk to him and ask him if he liked his name, which he never responded to. He said he didn't care about it one way or another, but had no positive associations with it.

 

She renamed him and within a short time he started responding to his new name, and more and more starting to act like a different dog. The FH ended up adopting him.

 

Whether or not you believe in animal communicators, the fact is that this dog responded to the new name and eventually to his environment in ways he never had before. (He was a very shut down dog taken from a hoarder, and was in his first FH for over a year with little progress.) The new name was the beginning of a new way of his being approached and treated, and it seems to have had a positive effect.

 

I think it has a psychological effect on us when we change a dog's name. It certainly seems to have done for this one.

 

Best wishes. I'm sure you got lots of great advice, which I'll read later. Be sure to let us know how how Zander's coming along.

[RemsMom]

 

Zander is a great name! By the way, he really is a handsome dog. I'm glad you were there to rescue him and give him a happy home.

 

Also, do look at the "Kikopup" videos online and if you have never used a clicker consider getting one. I had never used a clicker until just a couple of months ago and I have really enjoyed training with one. I was a little skeptical at first but my puppy really enjoys the training and gets excited when I bring out the clicker.

[Cass C]

I love the new name! Great choice, and if you have a small area under the stairs you can use that instead if a crate if it is small enough. The thing is he is looking for comfort in small tight spaces, so if it is a big open space under the stairs it will not have the same comfort as a properly sized crate. (I usually go a size or two up from the 'recommended' size, as it looks way to small and cramped. I want my dog to be able to stand up completely and stretch out in the crate.)