Shedding

[toney]

This forum hasn't seen much action lately. So, for discussion , when do you start training for a shed with a young dog? After the outrun is good perhaps? After the dog is running or trained to a pro- nov or ranch level? I'd just like to hear when others start the shed training. Naturally, all dogs are different but I thought this would be a good discussion.

[Alchemist]

The person I train with starts this quite early (though not a formal "shed") - just calling the dog to her if an opportunity arises in training. (So she was doing this with my one-year-old dog after only a month of training). She also starts driving quite early in training - just a few steps at first. In other words, putting names on the flanks, trying to keep flanks square, wearing, and the very beginnings of shedding and driving are all pretty much happening at the same time. She thinks this keeps young dogs from getting their heads stuck in a particular routine. But I'm sure every handler has a different approach.

[juliepoudrier]

Actually, my approach is similar to that mentioned above. It's one reason I like larger, mixed groups (hair and wool; light, heavy, and in between) for young dogs-- more opportunities are likely to present themselves. I don't wait for a particular "level" of training, but rather judge the dog and the evolving situation as we're working and then just take advantage of opportunities as they arise.

 

I am not one to drill a youngster or a trained dog, so I like to just work organically using the events of the moment to keep training fresh and interesting.

 

That's not to say that I don't set up situations so we can work through things, but there is no prescribed program or training sequence I follow.

 

J.

[Gloria Atwater]

This forum hasn't seen much action lately. So, for discussion , when do you start training for a shed with a young dog? After the outrun is good perhaps? After the dog is running or trained to a pro- nov or ranch level? I'd just like to hear when others start the shed training. Naturally, all dogs are different but I thought this would be a good discussion.

 

 

I'll tell you what - my dogs are coming-5 and 6 years old, and we're still fixing on our sheds. Granted, a large part of that is my own slow-growing knowledge base, but if I had it to do over, I'd start shedding WAY earlier in the dogs' lives. In fact, when I finally get another pup, I plan to do just that.

 

Suzy Applegate, whom I sometimes work with, has told me many times that she starts her dogs young on "puppy sheds," meaning whenever a group of gentle sheep offer an easy opening, she'll just call the youngster to her through the opening.

 

That's the thing I think I want to do different next time. I waited until Nick was in Pro Novice and Gael was in Nursery going-on-PN before I started teaching the shed, and I think that, for my dogs at least, that was not the best thing. Here I'd spent all this time teaching my dogs about flanking correctly and rating nicely and generally staying off their sheep ... and suddenly I was asking them to bust right through the middle of them.

 

So, next time around, I plan to try the "puppy shed" thing any time the chance presents itself. That I think may be a key: rather than teaching the shed as a complete exercise, I should teach elements of it from early on. Teach the dog that coming in close to sheep when asked is okay, so that he's comfortable coming in and so that when I do start asking him to come in and hold a gap in the sheep, it's not a foreign concept.

 

It's a plan, anyhow. I'm a ways off yet from getting any new puppy to try it on!

 

~ Gloria

[emilyfalk]

I have done both: waiting til the dog was further along in its training and starting with a puppy. My preference is definitely to start young whenever the opportunity presents itself, like the others have described. My youngest was shedding reliably on small groups of 4-5 at 14 months, which at the time was blowing my mind, because prior to her, I had trained more in a linear progression...first teach outrun, then flanks, then drive, then shed. But if you have the right sheep and some experience, it's not hard to set it up for the dog to be successful. I like that it teaches the dog to be flexible, ie sometimes we need to keep them all together, but other times we need to separate them. And you can work on balance, driving, call ins, kick outs all from doing a little shedding. I wouldn't do any precision shedding like singles or markeds with a youngster unless it came about during the course of farm work (same goes for an international shed), because that could put a lot of pressure on them. But in the end, my most natural shedding dog went from 0 to nearly fully trained in about 10 minutes of practice, and he was the one who I trained when he was older. Maybe if he weren't so natural with it I would have had more trouble teaching him later because he had been used to keeping sheep together that whole time. I don't have enough experience to know, just that I have come to like the more natural progression of training...a little of this, a little of that!

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Sheepdoggers,

 

Derek Scrimageur suggests that you use the shed command "In here" is mine, as the puppy recall (followed by much praise and schmoozing).

 

I'm still puzzling over Ian McMillan's shed training. Wheelchair bound, he trains from an ATV. The big difference I saw was Ian's expectation that the dog would make the shed. Create the hole, come in and take control. Ian - in his wheelchair - only indicated which sheep he wanted and when the dog should come in.

 

Donald McCaig

[Tea]

I do as others have described. With young dogs coming through an obvious hole. But one thing I always do after they understand the concept of taking control and walking away is I am really doing something with these sheep or whatever. It is always a real job. Dog tells me when ready to do this. I shed a lot in my work. Dairy cattle and goats mixed with big flocks and often must shed out.

 

Taw thinks shedding in trials is weird as we put them back together.

[Smalahundur]

Unlike (most of) the previous posters my training is more linearly structured.

Not because I think that is better, rather the contrary, but it has to do with several factors:

 

-I still think of myself as a handler with little experience. I need this structure myself, I think I would be in danger of confusing my dogs too much if I would try to start shedding too early (and you know, I do a fine job already confusing the poor things ). The lack of access to high quality instruction does not help.

 

-Icelandic sheep management means that the entire flock is only available for work/training for just a few months in autumn. This means I train over the summer with a select group of yearlings. The most important work is hard (the round up) and offers little "easy" shedding opportunities for a young inexperienced dog.

So shedding training is best done in the fall.

 

-Teaching the shed is not a very high priority thing for me, in our sheep management there is only in the roundup (seldom ) a real need for shedding. And that is a high pressure difficult one; taking lambs from a mother that is too tired to make it all the way home.

 

So I loosely base my training on the methods that Vergil Holland describes in his book. And I think it is prudent for me to heed warnings of several high ranking handlers not to try the shed too early (and it is not unlikely I am erring to much on the safe side in these matters).