keybrookefarm Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Hi everyone! I've been a lurker of the boards of almost a year when I got my first border collie pup last August. I've wanted one for almost 16 years, and finally had the land, time, and situation to make it happen. Without gushing about my girl, the family breeds and raises goats. I'd love to have her help out on the farm (and she is dying to), but as she's a bit sensitive I wanted to get her started on some sheep first, since some of our goats can be challenging. I really would love to trial, but I understand that's going to depend on a lot of things, and I'm sure it's challenging for a dog to be aggressive enough to work goats and soft enough to trial sheep (but I'm just guessing!). I have several offers from people in the area to work their sheep (they either have no dogs and need help or don't mind me training on them), but I can't just throw my dog in a round pen and hope we figure it out. I want to get some quality training down so we both understand what's going on. Problem is, I don't really know where to go. I'm looking to stay within a two-hour range, and I didn't want to drive up to North Jersey unless I really had to/it was really worth it (If any of you have driven on the NJ turnpike during rush hour, you'll understand why!). I'm located near Woodstown NJ, and can easily get to DE, eastern PA, and MD. Most of the places I've found are at least three hours away, or I just have a name and a number and have no recommendations/can't find out any information about the person. Just looking for some help and guidance, and some recommendations of trainers within the area. I'd ideally like to take my girl once a week (or more if I can/it's advised), and I don't feel like I realistically have the time to drive 6+ hours once/twice a week. You can't talk about a dog without pictures, so here she is! She's a itty bitty; she's 11 months old and weighs about 28 pounds. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Oooooh! I want an itty bitty prick eared red-tri! She's beautiful. Sorry I can't help with a trainer, but if she doesn't work out you can always send her my way. Kidding aside, I wish you the best figuring this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Dear Doggers, Go to the Foster Fields SDT June 7 & 8. http://www.nj.com/independentpress/index.ssf/2014/05/sheep_dog_trials_return_to_fos.html You'll meet all the New Jersey folks there. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Another option worth considering is sending your girl off for some training rather than trying to do it "yourself" (meaning, with the assistance of an experienced handler). Ask around to find out who might be good for starting a sensitive dog. It's difficult to progress very fast when you're a newbie handler, working only occasionally (say, weekly) with an untrained dog. (Been there....). I now own a trained dog and my rate of learning has accelerated tremendously (not that it's fast in an absolute sense, just a lot faster!). I've learned my lesson and I've sent my one-year-old pup off for training. Once your pup is somewhat trained, then you can avail yourself of lessons with an experienced handler, or else attend clinics, or both. I think working your pup yourself on undogged sheep sounds like a recipe for disaster. Stock could be hurt or killed, you could get injured (yes, a friend just broke her leg working sheep!), and your dog could shut down if she gains the wrong impression, or pick up very bad habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I agree with Donald's suggestion, whether you're looking for a "regular" trainer or a "boarding" trainer. In case his link didn't load for you, here's another source of info about the Fosterfields Sheep Dog Trial: http://mcpcevents.blogspot.com/2014/04/sheep-dog-trials-return-to-fosterfields.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keybrookefarm Posted May 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 GentleLake, thank you! I love her too. To Donald McCaig and Eileen Stein, thank you--I will be there! I had some written down on my calendar to visit, but not that one. Thank you for the link! Alchemist, I know that's a very good option, but I'm a bit nervous to send my dog off. She seems more sensitive and submissive to people (not so much the goats...) so if I picked a trainer that's too rough, I feel it could be a disaster. Since I don't know anyone, it's something that could happen just due to my inexperience. Maybe that will be an option once I find someone I know works well with my dog? And don't worry, I'm not planning on taking her to any undogged sheep as we are now--it's only an option if the trainer thinks she and I could handle them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Fair enough! But you may find she's softer off stock than on stock. That's definitely the case with at least one of my dogs. If that's the case, you'd likely worry less once you see how she interacts with a particular trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keybrookefarm Posted June 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2014 Alchemist, I hope so! I will be going to the SDT this weekend (excited!) so hopefully I can meet a trainer there. However, I was a bad parent and decided to see what my girl would do on ducks. I've had her since a pup and every command has been 'no, don't chase that!' so I've been dying to see what I'll be working with. I put them in a seperate pen the first day, and here she is with them out in the field on day two. I know I'm probably making a million errors--I've only read books and watched videos. So please be gentle on your criticism of me! I feel like I'm asking her to lie down too often, but it seems that if she walks up on them too long it builds up too much excitement and then she darts in--I'd rather stop her than correct her for doing it. Would a stand be more useful here? She knows this command too... I'm just pretty dumb. But what do you think of the dog? I've vowed no more ducks until we find a trainer, because I'm afraid I'll teach her bad habits. She tries so hard--I don't want to punish her for my mistakes! http://vimeo.com/97488375 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyQ Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 What a pretty dog! I just love watching those natural instincts shine, especially once polished. It's really quite incredible. I'd try those simple 'wanted ad' websites. Maybe Craigslist? I found all sorts of dog-related events on that site, so I'm sure you could find something herding-related with a bit of digging. Also, just wanted to cheer for you since you're from NJ. I'm from DE, but all the same, East coat represent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 First, I would limit the amount of time you work her. Those aren't ducks (well, they may be by now), they're ducklings, and frankly I thought you were pushing it on length of time for them. I hope you don't mind a little criticism, and that's just that you seem to have an awful lot of control on a dog who's only been on stock twice. In this situation it may be necessary so no ducklings are injured, but when I start a youngster I really prefer to give them the freedom to figure some things out on their own without me constantly telling them what to do. My yearling is working goats and has been on stock probably two dozen times and has a stop command and that's it, and I don't even use that much because her dam is clappy and the last thing I want is to create clappiness in her by overusing the down. In answer to your question, you can use a stand and it may help to prevent the tension building that a lot of stops causes. There's a lot more to it than that, of course, but I'm in the library with limited time, so I just wanted to throw that out as some food for thought. The best working dogs, IMO, are those who can think for themselves and read stock and react appropriately. There were several instances when she was trying to head a duckling who was trying to escape and you corrected her for that. Newbie mistake, but as you noted, the mistakes you're making now could affect her work later. She's a nice little dog. Let her learn to work and read stock and you'll probably have a great helper on the farm. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'd try those simple 'wanted ad' websites. Maybe Craigslist? I found all sorts of dog-related events on that site, so I'm sure you could find something herding-related with a bit of digging.I hate to be a wet blanket but I would never, ever seek out someone to help with stockdog training on Craigslist, in the newspaper, in the Pennysaver, or any other similar "mass market" venue. To the OP - since you've been to an SDT since you last posted, I'm wondering if you found someone to consider training with yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyQ Posted June 25, 2014 Report Share Posted June 25, 2014 I hate to be a wet blanket but I would never, ever seek out someone to help with stockdog training on Craigslist, in the newspaper, in the Pennysaver, or any other similar "mass market" venue. My apologies. I have a friend who found a helpful private trainer through Craigslist, so I thought that that would count for something? Perhaps looking through a "mass market venue" (if you choose to do it) is something you should do with the utmost caution. You're right, Sue. Stockdog and simple obedience are two very different things. The OP is probably best off looking for more professional trainers when it comes to training her sheepdog. But do ignore my shortcomings when it comes to this subject. I am new to the bc world, and I was simply trying to be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 My apologies. I have a friend who found a helpful private trainer through Craigslist, so I thought that that would count for something? Perhaps looking through a "mass market venue" (if you choose to do it) is something you should do with the utmost caution. You're right, Sue. Stockdog and simple obedience are two very different things. The OP is probably best off looking for more professional trainers when it comes to training her sheepdog. But do ignore my shortcomings when it comes to this subject. I am new to the bc world, and I was simply trying to be helpful. Of course! But I just couldn't let that suggestion go by without a comment. Normally in the stockdog world, if someone has to advertise (whether it's giving lessons or selling pups/dogs), they are not the person you want to seek out. The best ones are pretty low-key (not that there aren't very worthwhile trainers and breeders with good websites as there are) and it's reputation and word of mouth that is what gets the information out to perspective new "customers". It really can be hard to know just what to do and how to go about doing it when you are new to this community. That's one reason these boards are helpful because there are people here with experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keybrookefarm Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Representing the east coast! Juliepoudrier, Thanks for the help. I know I am the limiting reagent out of the two of us, and the video is honestly the last time I've done anything with her. Any time she's gotten into the goats/chickens/ducks previously without permission, she's been really rough with them, so I wanted a very good stop to keep everyone safe. Everything else is my inexperience!I come from a background of training horses, and I would never get on one with just a 'stop command'. I'm learning to let go... it's just very different. Thanks!Sue R,I have! The trial was a blast and I was pointed in the direction of Nancy Obernier. I got the chance to meet her and we're going to be setting up to train in July.I can attest to how hard it can be to go about this whole thing. It's very different to any other training I've ever done, and I'm really, really glad these boards exist and that I was pointed in the direction of the trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Dear Aspiring Sheepdogger, Nancy is excellent. Enjoy the ride. It's a doozy. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Dear Aspiring Sheepdogger, Nancy is excellent. Enjoy the ride. It's a doozy. Donald McCaig Precisely and absolutely! Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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