Please Help! Scary Puppy Aggression Issues!

[Daybreak]

Hi! First time posting.First let me say, I have been reading here and it has been very knowledgable and I feel blessed that there is a place like this to ask this question! Thank you!

 

Okay, here's the deal( and please, I beg your mercy as I am also learning and know I've made mistakes ) we got a 7 week old puppy a few weeks age named Colt....Wales ancestry.. who we really love. He loves to be close to me and follows me everywhere! Very sweet( normally!)and smart as a whip- knows down, sit, names of some of his toys, etc..I've had dogs for a few years now and was raised with German Shepherds, lab, etc. at home before that. However this is my first bc( have had an aussie who we LOVED-RIP Wranger, miss you!)and I really like him, though he's unlike anydog I've had .

 

He seems an odd combo of fearful and bold.He started resource guarding at 9 weeks.Seems to be escalating to other nasties. This surprised me as I've never had this issue as I have always do preventative training from the get go...eating with me near by, trading up(though sometimes "evenly" to avoid the "I get forbidden item and then I get a treat") treats in bowl, etc. He got touchy about stolen items, toys, certain food. From the very first sign, I uped the positve reinforcement plan and thought he was doing well for a couple days until, he bit my 18 mo. old daughter( I kick myself, didn't see her get near the food, was helping my son with autism get his coat on ,,, yeah got my hands full, but have been using gates, etc. to partition house in sections to mantain order and surpervised puppy/child time. My son was going to preschool and I missed that she was there in that moment.Puppy was a Christmas gift to replace my beloved aussie) Didn't break skin but a good couple hour dents in hand. Colt then snapped at me when I came back with her a short time later to give a really good treat... no growl first either time. Okay, not good. I'm ashamed I instantly physically corrected him quickly and firmly. I think I screwed up, but I have 2 young children, one diagnosed with autism that has already been in the ER due to a dog attack, so I'm a bit touchy on this and cannot tolerate it. At all. In the past I've used corrections with other dogs, but the time I really wanted to try positive route with limited corrections this time, and it is not going well, even worse since I've used some corrections as he was ignoring known requests.

 

He listens really well typically and takes relatively little verbal correction
(normal voiced ah) great. Loves being near me, even with bones.understands give, drop it and leave it.. and likes lovin' or treats for listening I think he is doing better, but then he flips. He will try to snap at me at odd times like me picking up my son, or letting out to go potty(always do on leash) like he's frustrated and wants me to hurry up( only done this once, just today), when there are fast movements he seems touchy(no nasties, but I can read his body language). BUT he will also leave food when he's hungry to follow me into another room?

 

Was wiping up a puke mess earlier-his and he had already cleaned up all but the stuff on carpet, and he got grouchy and I had already given his cooked lamb burger peices! Then he snapped at me. I popped him.duh on me.Told him to get back, he refused to move more than a couple feet and turned to me growling, staring,lying down I again asked to get back, jiggled the dining chair he was under to encourage him to move and after a few times of this cycle (move a little, then refuse, ask again)
He finally really moved but dove in for a fast cheap shot first( and he had plenty of room to retreat?) He met my foot halfway. Mind you I only wanted him to move back and I wasn't growling, yelling, etc. I've never even scruffed him before. When he finally started getting back well again( he knew what this meant already- I thought anyway) I praised him alot and repeated a few times so he knew that is all I wanted - praising, even treats for listening. I really wanted him to know aggression is NEVER the answer, but listening(or even just retreating?) was. That he was over reacting to a simple request.

 

I also feel he is getting jealous of me with the kids(though he is with me more consistantly than they are.My DH helps me ALOT to help make this work and means awhole lot to me.

 

Also fear aggressive with strangers in past, but doing better( I think, not too sure of things right now)

 

He is now 11 weeks old...still a BABY!

 

My gut says this is fear aggression, mixed with resource guarding and his having an opinion, probably made much worse by my corrections. I started some corrections because he wasn't listening at the time and honestly was acting a little bratty when he did listen, even at times with high value treats.. like but " you owe me " and " do I feel like it it. is it worth it?" .I've NEVER had that the way I used to train- my dogs in the past really listened well and love to please just to please.My husband has said he is jealous of the relationship I have with my dogs(that he wishes he had that relationship with his dogs). Though it hasn't always gone perfectly, thence trying even more positive this time. Just being honest and open-minded.

 

I think he( Colt) and I need a break from interaction past normal day to day, to regroup, and then NO physical corrections( how will he ever be my herding partner if he can't take a correction and won't listen?), and lots of structure, and NILIF( which I already do ALOT of, always have). What are your thoughts?

 

Have called breeder... no help.. at least I don't think. Says I need to pin him, put a choke collar on him around the kids, slap his nose, bite him with my hand...that he is dominate. I disagree. He acts scared, quivers at odd times after a blow up, but will do basic obedience and even come to me when he is in that "fear"mode. Even down on command. It is so weird, but an hour later may snap because he's frusturated about something. He seems on edge, yet very proactive about it , but who knows I could be ALL WET!!!!!!!! I'm at a loss and heartbroke. He does seem to try to pick an arguement at times? I mostly ignore him or distract him.

 

But all this doesn't sum my biggest question. I have two young children, and one who is very unpredictable. Will he ever be trust worthy? I don't trust him right now, even with me, and it is a terrible feeling. He seems like the type who would attack when you don't expect it...from behind. I'm so heartbroke...I actually really like him and he's a velcro pup which I love.. until those moments.....

 

Please, I'm desperate for good, proven, experienced advice and outcomes. I would be grateful for any help. To be honest, I'm getting scared for my kids..he so young for this it seems to me.

 

Thank you in advance,SO MUCH!!!

[TEC]

Disciplinary correction such an nose pops and chair jiggling (and your breeders suggestions), IME, should be used only by extremely knowledgeable trainers who are prepared to accept unpredictable results. For certain dogs physical punishment has potential for the desired outcome, but the down-side is that frequently it can exacerbate the problem. My eight year old border collie didn't respond well as pup to sparing physical correction, consequently I had to learn other accepted ways to modify behavior, which were often time-consuming and required training on my part. She is doing fine now, and Colt can as well, but it took knowledge and a good deal of time/effort.

 

Don't be concerned about stockwork. Correction in the field does not ordinarily involve physical punishment. It is chiefly verbal and/or through use of your position/demeanor.

 

I can feel your fear and frustration with 11 week old Colt. Of course, you are doing the right thing to reach out and seek advice/help.

 

The circumstances in your life sound like you have a lot going-on already, and now care of a difficult little puppy to deal with. I would want to know a little bit more about your life-style. How many other dogs and pets in the household? Are your children in school part of the day? Primarily looking for the time you have available, and effort you are prepared to expend, to work with Colt.

 

Use your dog gates scrupulously, and keep your children strictly separate from Colt (and never unsupervised) until you can have a fully qualified canine behaviourist look at him and your situation. If appropriate to your children, caution them about Colt. Food/toy resource guarding are hot-buttons for many dogs, especially puppies. While guarding is not uncommon, it can (as you have experienced) lead to bites, so it should be dealt-with soon. If you can do it safely, try to feed entire kibble meals from your hand, teaching Colt that you are the center of his world, and it may also help food guarding. This is suggested only as something to begin, while you locate professional in-person advice.

 

I wouldn't try to manage this entirely over the internet. You will get help here, and good advice, but you have posed a serious enough problem that I believe a behaviourist should look at Colt and provide his/her input. In the meantime, keep everybody safe. I would strongly advise against physical punishment for now, until/unless an expert suggests it. Handled correctly, I believe this situation can improve. --- Very best wishes, TEC

[Gloria Atwater]

Is he 11 weeks old now?

This is way, way out of my pay grade and I think you might want to see a behaviorist. I do feel the breeder was DEAD WRONG about harsher physical corrections. Whatever is going on with this little guy, getting harsher and more physical is most apt to backfire and create even greater problems. You're already twigged to that.

You're on the right track with the gates and crate - just be extra, super diligent about using those. But the rest ... I have no idea. I wish I could help.

You might consider a visit to the vet, as well, to see if there is any sort of physical/physiological reason for his behaviors. I do wish you luck.

~ Gloria

[Shoofly]

Send that puppy back to the breeder

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

I second Robin's solution.

 

Donald McCaig

[mum24dog]

Daybreak -

 

I would agree about sending him back but have reservations about how the breeder will treat him.

 

But it doesn't seem to me that your family and this pup are a good fit.

 

I doubt that there's much if anything wrong with the pup but he is going to need consistent but fair handling and with and 18 month old child and another that is going to need even more attention it will be very difficult if not impossible to give everyone what they need, including yourself.

 

Your gut instinct to use a positive approach is probably the right one but that doesn't mean that you don't set clear boundaries of what behaviour is acceptable and what is not. But for that approach to work everyone in the family would need to be consistent and he would have to be prevented from doing what you don't want him to rather than do it and be corrected after the fact. It's hard enough to get adults to understand the need for consistency let alone children.

 

This subject is near to my heart since our collie spent 6 months of his first 8 with a family with 4 young children, one autistic. He was and still is a social mess, although nowhere near as bad as he was. I wouldn't trust him with children ever because he learned to bite if required to do something he didn't want to. He's lucky to be alive.

 

Fundamentally though he is a very sweet dog and I don't doubt that he wouldn't be the dog he grew to be if he had been in a completely different home from the start. He'd always have been sharp but would have been taught self control.

 

I'm not suggesting that you are likely to mess up your dog as ours has been as clearly you are aware of what is happening and trying to stop it, but you can't afford to take your eye off the ball with this pup or your children.

 

If you do give him up it could be the best thing for your family and Colt. Better to do it now while he is so young than decide down the line when problems have become embedded that you can't manage or trust him.

[G. Festerling]

I second mum24dog's response.

 

Maybe even try to rehome him responsibly.

 

She said what I sat down to write. I think this pup is a terrible fit for your situation. NOT implying that you are not a great home for a pup or even a Border Collie. Although a tested older pup or young adult dog that has a certain empathy for the energy in your home would probably be a much better choice.

 

The longer you keep this pup, the more you are also possibly teaching him to be anything from simply worried to possibly learning to be a bully. Being that there is no way for any of us to accurately tell you if this pup is just simply too bold, too soft, too whatever.....action as well as inaction carries consequences for him as well as you. And because he has not control over this (he most likely does not have a drivers license to get himself to safety) it is your responsibility to do right by him before ya'll get into a storm.

 

Having said that, you may very well be totally committed and able to change and control this. You may have the skills, help, dedication. But do you have the time? Do you have the spare mental powers (after all, your kids are keeping you wrapped up too with I assume other normal home duties) to address this? Be honest with yourself.

 

Your kids have to be safe. As does the pup. Sometimes we are put in situations to have to make choices that are painful. I don't think anyone would judge if choices are made based on the best situation for everyone. But you did bring him into your home. So you owe your kids as well as him.

[Camden's Mom]

I want to commend you for all of the thought and effort you've obviously put into your puppy's very serious behavioral issues. From your original post it sounds like there is a LOT going on in your life, I have to agree with others that this puppy might not be the right fit for your home, especially given how he is interacting with your children... that's scary stuff from an 11 week old...

 

Please understand that no one wants you to "give up" on your puppy. I don't mean to speak for others, but I'd guess most of us here just want you to seriously and thoughtfully evaluate if you have the extra time and energy it will take to work on some pretty serious behavioral issues. Also, above all else, your family needs to be safe and comfortable living in their own home while you work through these issues. You and your husband (sounds like he's been very involved helping with the pup) should sit down, seriously discuss how much time and energy you have to dedicate exclusively to raising Colt, given the behaviors he's already showing, and make a decision.

 

If you decide to stick with it, you need to commit to Colt for the long haul. I'd get a certified veterinary behaviorist into your home ASAP to work with your family and Colt.

 

If you decide to re-home him, I'd avoid the breeder unless you are specifically looking for a refund. Given the advice (s)he gave you for dealing with his behavior, it does not sound like an ideal environment for Colt. Perhaps you could talk to a local border collie rescue about finding the right home for Colt and even ask about dogs that they have available for adoption that *would* be a good fit for your household.

 

I'm am by no means a dog expert and this is a tough situation. You have to do what's right for you, your family and Colt. Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best of luck.

[Smalahundur]

Hm, at eleven weeks old I think these behavioral problems are astonishingly serious (of course going on the description of its owner).

I don´t subscribe to the "every dog has a right to live" philosophy. It might sound harsh, but I think I would have him put down.

[Camden's Mom]

Hm, at eleven weeks old I think these behavioral problems are astonishingly serious (of course going on the description of its owner).

I don´t subscribe to the "every dog has a right to live" philosophy. It might sound harsh, but I think I would have him put down.

 

wow...

 

I don't subscribe to the "every dog has a right to live" philosophy either but good grief! I couldn't disagree with you more on suggesting she put down an 11 week old puppy! :/

 

Yes, the behaviors are extremely serious (I completely agree with you on that) but look at the history based on the original post. The puppy came into the household during the holidays (normally a very chaotic time in people's lives). The puppy has been handled inconsistently (going back and forth between positive methods and physical corrections). The OP is managing a puppy, a very young child and a special needs child... she has her hands pretty full.

 

IMO, I think the OP needs help from a professional who can observe the dog in her home and give her a plan of action much more then she needs to agonize over putting such a young puppy to sleep. Obviously if the behaviors don't improve or get worse, she may have to re-evaluate, but I just can not imagine jumping right to euthanasia as the first solution.

[Smalahundur]

Well relax, I am not in a position to do anything terminal to the little darling...

I got the (maybe wrong) impression the owner was a savvy person with experience with dogs.

I did not mean it as a "first solution", but as a possibility to be taken in consideration.

Don´t worry I am a lot less tough in real life than in hypothetical situations .

[Camden's Mom]

Well relax, I am not in a position to do anything terminal to the little darling...

I got the (maybe wrong) impression the owner was a savvy person with experience with dogs.

I did not mean it as a "first solution", but as a possibility to be taken in consideration.

Don´t worry I am a lot less tough in real life than in hypothetical situations .

 

I get it, I really do. I'm not one to take the option off the table if behavioral problems that are dangerous and unmanageable persist after efforts have been made to help the dog and owner.

 

On the other hand, I didn't want the OP to get totally scared off from the thread, either. It's got to be hard enough to read the suggestions that she consider re-homing her puppy, yanno?

 

Anyways, I didn't mean to peg you as an evil puppy killer, Smalahundur. Sorry if my response was an over-reaction.

[Journey]

3rd to say....send him back. Cut your losses now before an accident, yes they happen with even the vigilant owner, hurts a child. IMO there's no excuse for this in an 11 week old.

[Alchemist]

I've raised three Border collies from puppies (a small number compared to many of you!). I've never seen behavior remotely like this. All of my puppies have been super anxious to please under any circumstances. One had very slight resource guarding issues (would growl at a barely audible level if I petted it while it was eating), so I moved to feeding it by hand for a while. Another vocalized once when I cleaned up puppy barf it wanted to eat, but it was a complaining/whining aow aow sort of noise, no tension at all in the puppy, not in the tiniest bit aggressive.

 

The behaviors you describe would worry me in any puppy. Please don't think it's typical of Border collies. I worry lest it have a loose wire in its brain. You've got an awful lot on your plate already, and you need a dog that's totally bombproof around your kids, with a home that's as free of tension as possible. I have to agree with the others; I'd send it back to the breeder. Get a dog from rescue or find a different breeder.

[Daybreak]

Howdy from the OP! Thank you all for your responses... I can't tell you what it means to know someone cares enough to read and respond!!!

Had a chance to cool down , regroup and put alot of analytical thought in this situation and pup and have some thoughts.

But first I want to add, while I do truly have my hands full, I'm a organized,high drive person myself so we are doin' okay on that. I get Colt up at 8-9 in am, and he is in our large kitchen dining area with me till my DH goes to work at 4:30. He will move to other rooms with me as I need too, the house is divided into 3 sections with gates, so kids, other dog( a great Sheltie X rescue female, Ithaca) and Colt and me are always separate except for surpervised times. I very rarely leave him alone. At 4:30, he is put in his crate till 8:30 when kids are in bed. This allows full Mommy time for kids for therapy,lovin' etc as well as odd home chores difficult to do with Colt. My 4 year old son goes to preschool 4 afternoons a week. At 8:30. he comes out till he tires(and me too!) about 11-12 midnight, and then crate for night. Fed 3X daily. I am not working outside of home, so can work in short periods of time throughout the day but we're broke . My sweet DH sold a collectors gun to a family member(without my permission) so he could have the money for this pup for Christmas.How sweet is that and could a herding dog lovin' girl resist? We have a small hobby farm. Sheep, a couple milk goats, chickens. We brought Colt home Jan. 10.

Now for thoughts on Colt. I don't know if the breeder would take him back...seemed to think its just dominance and thence I guess our fault for not keeping him in his place. I'm actually have very set house rules(and barn..like no eating dung!).I have to to keep things running smoothly:) I have been MUCH softer on him as the postive training route seems to take a bit longer to get through, and I never correct for misunderstanding or just learning- I think that would be wrong myself, though I will give a soft wrong answer sound to help guide...but I do for willful decision to disobey..ya know the look and following blow off. Or dangerous situations. This is what I started coming up against with Colt, thence the slight change towards some corrects 2 weeks ago.

I wondered if he had all his "parts" and today I and then my DH checked a total of 3 times and we can only feel one. Shouldn't they both be down by now?

Also, hadn't introduced him to Ithaca yet, as I like the pups to bond to people before the other dogs. Has worked well in the past. I did work with both dogs with one on either side of gate to start to learn control in each others presence.Been going great. Anyway, been confused about Colt's body langauge( act somewhat fearful, then turn and act like he wants an arguement, doesn't want to retreat, yet shakes later) and we thought she more than us could read him.. After all she IS a dog! Worked with them together, (went great, both listened) then released to say hello. He immediatly started to dominate her. Paws on back, etc. She, though patient, would have none of it and pinned him 10-12 times, with at first him growling, snarling, etc, then he slacked off that but was persistant in trying to pick a fight which she didn't want. I couldn't believe how driven he was and he did ALOT of the same things with her that he tried with me!! Cheap shots, deferred chewing on forbidden items when put in his place, etc. I was able to pretty easily call both dogs to me to do a little obedience, and then re-release. I just wanted to see his 'doggy' persona and he was a a pushy thick headed bully, who finally started to give up some. After yet another pin ( he was starting to respect her), I cheerily separated them. Poor Ithy is after all only 9 pounds!!And he obviously was up for doing this for quite a while longer. Very interesting..."parts" problem?

He is actully very laid back energy level wise.

Side note: I was thinking in the middle of the night last night, and remembered Smitty, a buff cocker spaniel I had. He acted this way as a very young pup too, though never tried to bite, but would growl, snarl, threaten nearly every day. By the tender age of 3 1/2 months, the vet office offered to put him down. I was fed up but gave it a couple more weeks to think. I was able to work him through it...VERY strict NILIF, cold, aloof with him till he was older and more settled, and he was normal..no growling, etc. Used to take him to horse shows with me and he loved people. He developed seizures at 5 years old. never put it together before, but do you think it was related? Maybe early sign of eplilepsy? Don't know, haven't researched it yet, but thought I'd be lazy and throw it out here

After a blow off this morning which I finally corrected without much physical at all, mostly just calm persistance and giving him 'the look', he waited nervously for a while, then finally did as asked slowly and humbly and he's been much better.Even better after Ithy Was terrible first thing this am, thought he was going to nip just putting on his leash and was pushy and slow to listen.

Thank you so much again for your replies. Still tring to figure out the root issue so we know the best action to take. I don't want to re home a phsyco pup as I feel that is just pushing it off on some other poor soul, BUT if it is another problem(dominate attitude, parts, etc), that may determine whether we push ahead or rehome with a clear conscience. I hope that makes sense.

Thank you again!!!! It IS helping!

[Shoofly]

I still say send him back to the breeder. At 11 weeks he can resell him if he wants. Cut your losses.

[madrose124]

Here's the deal, you said you have an 18 month old right? Unless you can guarantee that you can keep this dog away from your child when you aren't right there with them at all times, you need to cut your losses and return the dog.

 

I will say, food aggression is rare in young puppies, but it does happen. In my experience, if the puppy has resource guarding issues that young, something is wrong.

 

The number one thing you should NOT have in a dog when you have young kids is resource guarding. Be it fear or dominance, you do not want this kind of dog around your kids.

 

I rescued a dog 3 years ago, a puppy, who turned up having resource guarding. She bit my son in the face twice. I worked with her, and she got really good with humans, but never with other dogs. She attacked every dog she ever was around. Even over a cheerio under the couch, and when you have kids, food is everywhere, in places you dont even know. She almost killed one dog, and then I NEVER would let her be around small dogs because I was certain if she fought it over food, she'd be done for.

 

You have to put your kids first. Why take that risk? Why commit fully to a puppy that is SO young, and already showing these issues. And not just growling over food...but BITING. That's a big no no. I fostered rescue puppy litters for a very long time. There was only ONE puppy out of all of those that BIT you over food, and after a few months we determined to put him down. He was going to be a danger. He bit, and he bit hard, even as a very young puppy. There was one more that had been beat up by the others in his litter, and eventually grew to be very food aggressive around other pups as he got older around food. But never humans.

 

A puppy shouldn't bite someone as resource guarding at that age IMO, and you add on top of that that young kids don't read body language well, act irratically and puppies often view kids as littermates and will treat them as such. Your daughter will get bit again.

 

Oh, and that dog I rescued, we eventually did rehome because she knocked my young son over, chipped his tooth, all because she went after my other dog who found a bone. She would always be fine around ME but she was smart enough to know when I wasn't. It was either rehome her (to someone with no small kids, because really she was great with people just far too large and driven to be around my young special needs son) or build her some sort of solitary enclosure to keep her most of the time to make sure no accidents happened, and that's no way to live.

 

I speak from experience, as a mother, a dog trainer, a hobby farm with sheep, chickens, goats and horses... I say cut your losses, return the puppy if you can or surrender to a rescue. Sure, he may be able to learn not to be that way around you and anyone he learns to respect, but if you are starting out now with a puppy---I HIGHLY recommend you start with the right fit dog for you. It's not worth the risk. Not when you have little ones.

[Daybreak]

I couldn't agree more it about not worth the risk!!!

 

Frankly, I just can't believe how this went with him. Wow.Really trying to figure out if its us or the pup, thinking its the pup. I don't like feeling threatened by a puppy. It's silly.And I'm not even being abusive or anything!I really have been trying hard with him! I absolutely love my dogs and hoped to continue on herding with him. UHG. How disheartening.

 

Thinking of trying to return him, don't know if it will fly, not hopeful, but could be wrong. Really don't want to lose that sacrificial money from my husband, but the children are without doubt more important, just frustrated..

 

Could sell him, but I don't feel right about it if he's unstable mentally.....want to know whats going on with him so that call can be made.

 

Thanks for the reply, all of them really, it has helped confirm that maybe there is really is something amiss here. That I'm not crazy. It can be hard in the thick of the situation.

[rushdoggie]

Hm, at eleven weeks old I think these behavioral problems are astonishingly serious (of course going on the description of its owner).

I don´t subscribe to the "every dog has a right to live" philosophy. It might sound harsh, but I think I would have him put down.

 

Agreed. I'm sorry but that is not behavior I would expect from such a young puppy and it alarms me.

[madrose124]

I couldn't agree more it about not worth the risk!!!

 

Frankly, I just can't believe how this went with him. Wow.Really trying to figure out if its us or the pup, thinking its the pup. I don't like feeling threatened by a puppy. It's silly.And I'm not even being abusive or anything!I really have been trying hard with him! I absolutely love my dogs and hoped to continue on herding with him. UHG.

 

Thinking of trying to return him, don't know if it will fly, not hopeful, but could be wrong. Really don't want to lose that sacrificial money from my husband, but the children are without doubt more important, just frustrated..

 

Could sell him, but I don't feel right about it if he's unstable mentally.....want to know whats going on with him so that call can be made.

 

Thanks for the reply!

I'm sure no matter what happens, it'll work out for you. If I were you I'd try to keep my "eye on the prize" and remind myself that we'll be searching for the puppy/dog that's meant to be. This guys just wasn't the right one. I hope the breeder could give you your money back. You could find a different breeder, look at rescues too as they have older dogs---sometimes a great blessing because you know exactly what to expect versus the uncertainty of a puppy. However, in my experience I do know how difficult it is to find a rescue BC that "fits" all my criteria---I have kids, dogs, chickens, a husband LOL. I'm sure your husband's sacrifice isn't all for not, just an unexpected hiccup.

 

I'm sure it's very dissappointing. But as an outsider looking in, you'd be doing the best thing for your future to find a different dog.

 

Best of luck, and keep us posted.

[madrose124]

And I'm nearly certain it's the puppy. It would take a hell of a lot to make a puppy food aggressive when it isn't. The puppy I have couldn't be any less protective over food--it's lovely. I don't think there's anything I could do to make her act that way (not that I would try).

[madrose124]

Oh, and one more little tidbit, I'm sure you all have thought it through, but I know some kids with Autism can have behaviorial/sensory issues, and since border collies tend to be very reactive and sensitve--moreso than aussies---soooo maybbbbeee you might do better with another aussie? Just a thought. My youngest has CP, so I'm used to always factoring that in to my decisions.

[Eileen Stein]

It's normal for testicles not to have descended at 11 weeks, so I feel sure the behavior is not related to that. The shaking and quivering you mention really caught my attention, and I would be concerned that the pup has neurological issues that would not be correctible. You sound savvy enough to keep watch on this situation a little longer before making a decision, but I would be contacting the breeder about returning him before much more time passes.

[Gloria Atwater]

I couldn't agree more it about not worth the risk!!!

 

Frankly, I just can't believe how this went with him. Wow.Really trying to figure out if its us or the pup, thinking its the pup. I don't like feeling threatened by a puppy. It's silly.And I'm not even being abusive or anything!I really have been trying hard with him! I absolutely love my dogs and hoped to continue on herding with him. UHG. How disheartening.

 

Thinking of trying to return him, don't know if it will fly, not hopeful, but could be wrong. Really don't want to lose that sacrificial money from my husband, but the children are without doubt more important, just frustrated..

 

Could sell him, but I don't feel right about it if he's unstable mentally.....want to know whats going on with him so that call can be made.

 

Thanks for the reply, all of them really, it has helped confirm that maybe there is really is something amiss here. That I'm not crazy. It can be hard in the thick of the situation.

 

 

I feel terrible for you. I can't imagine anything more heartbreaking than to have all that joy and love over a new puppy turn into something awful. But I sincerely doubt it's you or anything you've done. I think the poor little guy is just not "right."

 

As for returning him to his breeder ... most breeders, if they are reputable, would be glad to take a pup or dog back. I've known breeders to accept a return one or two years after the sale. And since this pup is clearly, clearly not right for your situation, I'd think sending him back is the best option possible.

 

No, selling him on is not a good choice. Perhaps you could locate a border collie rescue in your region and see if someone could take him on in light of his extreme youth. But I don't think keeping him is an option and selling him would not be ethical.

 

It does happen sometimes that a dog is simply born "not right." I knew two people who each got a pup from an Aussie litter - that's two puppies from one litter to two separate homes - and to cut a tragic story short, both pups ended up being euthanized before their 1st birthday because they started attacking their owners. One lady ended up in the hospital with stitches, while the other fended off two or three attacks before finally accepting that her otherwise sweet, pretty little bitch was mentally unbalanced. This woman had owned and trained working Aussies for @20 years, so she knew her breed. All they could guess was that something in the breeding or bloodlines was simply screwed up, to create two dangerous, unbalanced pups from one litter.

 

So, I guess all I'm saying is, please don't feel badly if you can't make this right. Some things are just out of human hands. I do feel awful for your situation.

With best wishes,

 

Gloria

[Daybreak]

Thank you for your kind words...

 

It really is heartbreaking...I really wanted this to work and tried really hard and invested lots of time and emotion in this pup. Never taught a dog the names of his toys.. that was cool, had hoped to teach him to track my son if there ever was a need.It was a leap a faith trying this with our situation, but we thought it could work getting a puppy if we worked together.Wrangler's been gone 2 years and he was my friend, guardian,and canine partner in all things around here. A true velcro dog..couldn't even go to the bathroom with out him desiring to be there laying on the floor.So very loyal and true.

 

Anyway, sorry if I rambled... I'll just go cry now.

 

Thanks for your help, I really mean that...thank you!