Tommy Coyote Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Actually, I was searching for miniature border collie statues and ran into a whole rash of mini border collie sites. Is your border collie under 25 pounds? Then you probably have a mini. Just in case you don't know about it. This is a relatively new breed. They seem to be fun and make excellent pets. They look suspiciously like regular border collies except they seem to favor the AKC varieties - pretty little short legged sweet little pets. So does the AKC allow miniature aussies? Will they soon have a class for mini border collies? Wow. It's a whole brave new world out there. And did you know that golden border collies seem to be another big seller? They almost look white except they are really light gold. I'm thinking it would just be best to let that part of the world just go it's own way. And we can just go our way. The gap has just gotten too wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm thinking it would just be best to let that part of the world just go it's own way. And we can just go our way. The gap has just gotten too wide. We all knew that this would eventually happen right from the start. I just wish the AKC had conceded to our request to at least call this new breed something other than border collie. Maybe we're the ones who'll have to change and just call ours "working border collies" or "working collies," sorta like the red field setter folks did when the Irish setters became such a joke. I think ultimately that it doesn't matter who had the name first . . . even though it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 So does the AKC allow miniature aussies? Will they soon have a class for mini border collies? I don't know this for a fact because I don't follow AKC stuff super closely, but I don't think they recognize the mini-Aussie as a breed, and I am fairly certain that the mini-Aussie would fall outside of their acceptable sizes for an Australian Shepherd. At least for conformation. Again, I could be wrong, but I am fairly certain of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I've got a litter of mini Border Collies due next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oko Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think I have one, I wouldn't be surprised if she never got over 25 lbs. but I already call her a mini border collie, so I'm well aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted January 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Well, you can get a lot more money for the puppies if you call them mini border collies. I can't believe the prices some of those breeders are asking. No wonder so many people are jumping on that band wagon. Makes me sad. I just couldn't believe the number of breeders that are out there now. There must be hundreds. Lots of mini aussie and mini border collie. That genie is out of the bottle. I just always tell people I have working sheepdogs. They don't know what that is so I don't get a bunch of weird comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Heads up on Mini-Aussies The AKC opened up a "New" breed and is calling them the "Miniature American Shepherds" Go figure :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I have a mini border collie. Well, kinda - he's over 25# but is rather compact and only 17.5" at the shoulder. I do love this size but not if one is sacrificing working ability for size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Heads up on Mini-Aussies The AKC opened up a "New" breed and is calling them the "Miniature American Shepherds" Go figure :rolleyes: Well, there is my newly learned fact of the day! Thanks for the info. Maybe if they ever recognize a "mini-Border Collie", they will do a similar name change. Miniature American Collies or something . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Here's what AKC says about Miniature American Shepherds (MAS): "The Miniature American Shepherd is being recorded in the AKC Foundation Stock Service... FSS® breeds are not eligible for AKC registration. Several of the FSS breeds are approved to compete in AKC Companion Events and AKC Performance Events." (emphasis added) I'm told that currently the majority of full-sized Australian Shepherds are not ready to be trained for serious stockwork on a farm, and this has been my observation. Apparently their original abilities were not bred-for over time, and therefore not retained. Granted, there may still be a few good sources for working Aussies. Yet, it's clear to me that a goal of small size is not breeding toward working ability. I have a 35 lb border collie, but I think she looks lighter due her fine structure. She works nearly tirelessly, and has heat/cold tolerance. I think she is a good general purpose size, and suits my needs. To me, the Aussie and MAS stories are cautionary tales for all stockworking (and working dogs in general) breeds. -- TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Well, he thinks he is a Border Collie and he is damn sure going to keep up and do anything that his Border Collie friend does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Well, he thinks he is a Border Collie and he is damn sure going to keep up and do anything that his Border Collie friend does! Well, yeah? Everybody knows that Papillons and border collies are at least cousins (brothers?). Look at those eyes and posture. He's ready for anything. -- TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 it's clear to me that a goal of small size is not breeding toward working ability. Especially when they've outcrossed to non-herding toy breeds to get the smaller size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Before they became "Mini American Shepherds" people would PAL them as Aussies in order to run agility and such. I know of people who put MACH's on them, then turned around and reregistered them as "Mini American Shepherds" and started over in the novice group. That being a reason I dislike agility (I have my flamesuit on ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Before they became "Mini American Shepherds" people would PAL them as Aussies in order to run agility and such. I know of people who put MACH's on them, then turned around and reregistered them as "Mini American Shepherds" and started over in the novice group. That being a reason I dislike agility (I have my flamesuit on ) Thats just unethical regardless of what game you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Before they became "Mini American Shepherds" people would PAL them as Aussies in order to run agility and such. I know of people who put MACH's on them, then turned around and reregistered them as "Mini American Shepherds" and started over in the novice group. That being a reason I dislike agility (I have my flamesuit on ) But look at the flavor of agility you are refering to... There are plenty of other options available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Thats just unethical regardless of what game you play. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmbc Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 There is no such thing as a mini-border collie. some of the dogs being sold as minis are bred to other small breeds, such as papillions. there are small border collies, but not minis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 .... I'm told that currently the majority of full-sized Australian Shepherds are not ready to be trained for serious stockwork on a farm, and this has been my observation. Apparently their original abilities were not bred-for over time, and therefore not retained. Granted, there may still be a few good sources for working Aussies. Yet, it's clear to me that a goal of small size is not breeding toward working ability. .... To me, the Aussie and MAS stories are cautionary tales for all stockworking (and working dogs in general) breeds. -- TEC To me, the Aussie is definitely a cautionary tale for stockworking breeds. I have a working Aussie from a good friend who has kept and occasionally bred working Aussies for over 20 years, and I can tell you that a whole lot of Aussie lines are not only not ready to be trained for stock work, they are incapable. What they can do is be obedience-trained around dog broke sheep well enough to complete an ASCA course. My working-bred blue gal has been a headstrong little devil to train, but at least she's thinking about the sheep! And to think the show world wants to breed away from that. It's like breeding the legs out from under a Thoroughbred or the cow sense out of a Quarter horse. But I guess people do that, too. Back to the topic at hand - my Gael is too tall to be a mini border collie, but at barely 31 pounds, I love how light, nimble and fast she is. Sometimes those light-framed dogs seem like little Energizer bunnies who just don't slow down or wear out. But I agree - it's just as well the ACK and the rest of us just go separate roads. So long as we can keep that separation emphasized and educated. ~ Gloria P.S. Yes, mini Aussies are too small for the Aussie breed standard. I'm pretty sure they have Pomeranian or something bred into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I am sure that some puppy mills breeding for mini-border collies or mini-Aussies may have used a toy breed back in the woodpile, but I would bet that the inbreeding that often happens with the puppy mill breeders can also result in mini - whatevers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Where I come from Terrierman's dogs would be 'mini' jack russells. Walking a friend's dog, I learned I was completely ignorant because I thought her 19lb dog was just a plain old jack russell. Silly me. The collie is another cautionary example. It gets forgotten because they haven't actually been used for anything for a century or so. They couldn't have just stuck with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Just how small are these "mini" versions? I'm used to small collies and the only mini aussie I've seen just looked a bit runty, certainly not a midget version. It doesn't take many generations to breed small so why the assumption that they must be crossed with small breeds? A 19lb jack? That's big. I have one that would be that weight if he weren't a bit podgy and around 14.5 ins. No way would he fit down a rabbit or fox hole. Maybe a badger sett. Mind you, non KC terriers are quite possibly mix and match breedwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 My old agility trainer is involved with Aussie rescue and is convinced the minis were crossed out to something like a pug, if you look at many of them they have bug eyes. She also felt they did not have the same characteristic as the "real" ones. And no sadly I am not harboring a mini collie, mine is one the giant collies, he just kept growing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 We have a few that come into work. The other day we had a mini Aussie who was maybe 25 lbs and had that buggy eyed look with round eyes and a very narrow snout. We all thought he was creepy looking. Then we have one that is super tiny at maybe 12 lb and I assumed it was a Pom mix until the owner said it was a mini Aussie. It looked like a Pomeranian with no tail. I would find that dog very hard to believe as a full blooded Aussie whereas the other larger mini Aussie could have very well been full but poorly bred to get the size. Luckily border collies as pets aren't too popular in my area and we haven't seen any mini ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 He's probably not strictly purebred, or bred according to strict standards- I always mentally define JRTs in a 'walks like a duck' way. Could be just big though. It's just funny how anything that is, to me, normal jrt size is mini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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