Raw dog food - Fad or fab?

[Gloria Atwater]

.....

 

As for raw feeding being expensive, I don't track the costs, but I don't think I spend any more for my dogs' food than I would if I were feeding a good quality kibble. There are more and more raw food co-ops springing up all over the place, so buying in bulk and/or splitting purchases with other people really keeps costs down. Of course, people can spend a lot of money if they want to buy only human grade meats from human grade sources, but most raw feeders I know don't do that.

 

 

Just adding a note that, sometimes, the cost of feeding raw can vary widely according to where one lives. I live in a rural area where there are no co-ops or local butchers, and I don't have livestock, so human grade meat is all I'd have access to. Unless I wanted to drive a 3-hour round trip to Reno every time I wanted to buy food for my dogs.

 

So, a consideration for anyone is to look at the resources available in one's area. But for those who do have the resources and a place to put a nice freezer, raw feeding works very well.

 

~ Gloria

[MrSnappy]

I feed 8 dogs (and 3 cats) raw with a medium sized chest freezer. It's not cheap, but I have also not bought kibble in 15 years so I don't know if it's really lots more expensive. When I see the kind of kibble I would feed at ~$80 a bag, I tend to think it's on par.

 

I feel better not feeding my dogs something I scoop out of a bag every day, and there is no science behind that but there you go. Their raw food has never been recalled and I've never had food poisoning and neither have they - and I am the LAZIEST raw feeder in the world when it comes to sterilizing etc. I have seen my dogs dig up very long dead chickens (I do a poor job at burying them, as I am also lazy about that) and eat them without ill effect, so I figure their bowls don't need to be silkwood-showered every day or anything. If anything, it seems to help with the iron stomach thing.

 

Yeah it takes longer to prepare every day, but I'm used to it after all these years. One thing I can say is that NONE of my raw-fed dogs has ever needed a dental. The state of the teeth on some of the dogs that come into work makes me physically ill - even at nearly 14 years, Tweed's teeth are clean as a whistle. And my 16 year old diabetic cat, who is now dead for several years, went into remission when I switched him to raw, after 4 long years on insulin and fancy vet formulated food.

 

Even though it's raw, generally what my dogs eat looks for appetizing than the crap I feed myself.

 

RDM

[alligande]

I have a very fussy eater and would consider feeding raw but it is cost prohibitive where I live. I am friends with a butcher and his distributor does not have ready access to things like chicken backs so even paying wholesale it gets pricey. My dog gets bones and chicken necks as snacks, and if I have kidneys or liver from my butcher friend he gets it with his kibble.

Another consideration is does your dog like it, my late Brody loved food, but would refuse to eat his kibble if I put raw in his bowl, the only thing he would eat raw was beef, meat and bones, he also hated chicken necks. When he was sick I cooked for him ( menu planning provided by a nutritionist ) and with supplements that I had to add it was costing almost double the cost of kibble.

[mum24dog]

I have fed raw and kibble. I have 9 dogs (and, until recently, 2 LGDs) and, frankly, raw is prohibitive for me, even with raising some of my own meat (and I don't buy much meat for myself either, partly because of the cost and partly because I have ethical/moral issues with the way animals are raised for slaughter, though of course kibble contains parts of animals raised that way as well, and I'm not about to go vegan for me or my dogs). And I've done the math, so yes, I do know it's more expensive to feed my pack raw. I see nothing wrong with feeding raw and I think cost issues would be less of a problem with just a couple of dogs, but I also don't buy into the claims that raw fed dogs are healthier and go to the vet less often (though they do indeed have smaller poops). My kibble fed (occasional raw for their teeth and chewing pleasure) dogs rarely go to the vet, and if they do, it's generally work/injury related. My kibble fed dog kicked cancer on her own. And all of my dogs live to the 15-16+ year old range with reasonable healthiness up to the end. So clearly kibble isn't killing them.

 

Most of what you'll get from folks you ask on forums is anecdotal evidence pro or con for kibble or raw or any combination thereof. There's nothing wrong with trying raw, if you're willing to do some research of front and make an effort to feed a balanced diet. A poorly considered and fed raw diet is definitely worse than a kibble based diet, IMO.

 

As Liz notes, if you're not considering the source of your raw meats, then you're not necessarily avoiding "contaminants" (chemicals) in the food and your dogs will be exposed to some of the same things that kibble fed dogs are exposed to.

 

As I always say, feed the best that you can afford to feed, in a form that is most sensible for you and your lifestyle. There's no wrong answer (other then feeding really crappy food).

 

J.

 

 

This.

 

If I discount those dogs that need a particular diet because of pre-existing health problems, I can't think of any raw fed dogs that I know that are any more healthy than those fed on kibble - certainly not my friends 10 year old lab that had been raw fed all her life and died of cancer.

 

Do I blame her diet for her premature death? Of course not. The trouble with anecdotes on any subject is that people seeking to justify their own choices will often select the results that suit their case and draw unproven conclusions.

 

I see no reason why anyone shouldn't feed a well researched and good quality raw diet if by doing so it makes them feel that they are doing the best for their own dog. It's not essential for a healthy dog nor in general is it likely to produce a healthier dog than one fed other decent types of food, but it won't do any harm.

[mum24dog]

I find it interesting that everyone professes that dogs don't need carbs. They are not obligate carnivores and hard working dogs DO need some carbs for optimal performance. There are thousands upon thousands of pages of scientific papers out there on that very topic.

 

 

Maybe they say that on the basis that most normally active pet dogs can do fine on the primary source of energy for a dog which are fats.

 

But, as you say, hard working dogs can be a different case and may need to draw on a dog's secondary energy source which is carbs.

[Gideon's girl]

Hardworking dogs need to replace glycogen faster than the average dog.

[jvw]

I used to feed all my dogs raw. They all did well on it. And their stools were small and firm. Their coats were clean and shiny. I found no benefit to their teeth, I believe that is more hereditary. I did not necessarily find it expensive. But it was time consuming. It is much easier to put kibble in a bowl!

 

One of my dogs went to live with someone else for two years. I was told he was fed raw there. Cleary he was not fed enough. And he also picked up parasites (not from raw). Long story short I got him back and he was very thin and unhealthy. It took me 3/4 of a year to get him healthy again but he no longer can tolerate raw feeding. I feed him IAMS mini chunks. I don't think its the best food all around. BUT for HIM it is the best food. I've tried several times to wean him back onto raw. His system simply will not tolerate it.

 

My first dog is now fed raw for one meal and one meal grain free kibble. She is 13 years old. I tried to switch her over to all kibble. But her coat got oily and icky and she began drinking TONS TONS TONS more water. So we went halvsies.

 

This is just what works for us. YMMV

[SS Cressa]

I have fed raw and dry. The biggest draw back for me feeding dry is when an issue arrises you have more things you have to look through. I was feeding TOTW and orijens for a while and at first my dogs had wonderful coat than after 6-7 months both had the worst coats ever and always itchy. Long story short I realized one of my dogs is allergic to fish(salmon) and the other is allergic to rosemary extract. Raw food would have made it way easier to narrow down what was causing the issue and Tbh I wouldn't have had the issue since I wouldn't have included either in their foods.

But as to coat, stool, energy levels... I haven't really notice a difference.

[WildFlower]

As I always say, feed the best that you can afford to feed, in a form that is most sensible for you and your lifestyle. There's no wrong answer (other then feeding really crappy food).

 

J.

 

^^^ This.

 

If your dog is doing well on kibble - great! If your dog is doing well on raw - great! If you need to switch from one to the other for some reason - that's great too! Really, for me, it's about doing the best you can for you and your dog.

[urge to herd]

I've heard some random dog owners (not necessarily the ones I would take advice from) rave about raw dog food. If you don't have access to your own butcher's shop, it's expensive, smelly and difficult to store.

 

My simple question is: Is it worth the trouble or is it just another fad?

I read most of the responses, and yep, it comes down to what works best for your dog and you.

 

I tried to feed my departed Shoshone raw. Based everything on some dog food gurus that claimed if you followed their plan exactly, your dog would gleam with good health.

 

Humbug. I fed Shonie their recipes for 2 months, maybe longer. She lost an alarming amount of weight, her coat turned dry and nasty, and she just didn't look healthy. I kept upping the amount I was giving her, until I realized it was not working for her.

 

I put her back on a medium quality kibble and within a couple weeks she'd put on some weight and her coat was getting back to normal. The best food for her turned out to be a vegetarian kibble, can't remember the manufacturer, the protein sources were soy and pea. She did astonishingly well on that kibble. I think they stopped making it.

 

It might take some experimentation to find what is best for your dog and what works for you.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[border_collie_crazy]

I feed 6.5 dogs Raw with nothing but the little freezer on top of the fridge...and that space is shared with the people food too. cost,,,I spend about the same amount per month to feed 6 dogs raw and as spend per month for Gem's 29lbs bag of Orijen, she only eats partial raw do to being allergic to basically every meat I can get on a budget lol. Baby does not eat raw at all, she is allergic to life and I have no idea how to feed a raw diet properly that consists exclusively of the very few things she can eat!

 

health? eh, my dogs are all in great shape, I have seen massive health improvements in certain dogs, no improvements in others, but never seen any kind of decline either, just "same" or "better".

[juliepoudrier]

Again, whether one can get raw meat at a reasonable cost depends largely on location and the availability of co-ops, etc. Around here there is a store that caters to a different market and they always had various cuts/body parts you couldn't find anywhere else, and for better prices than anywhere else. However, I found that I was throwing meat out because it was going bad before the sell buy date. Crazy. The other issue around here is that the parts that used to be less desirable and therefore less expensive are now desirable and therefore much more expensive.

 

Then again, I don't spend anywhere near $80 for a bag of dog food, so it's all relative I guess.

 

J.

[border_collie_crazy]

i don't have any raw feeding co-ops around wouldn't help if I did, I dont have a freezer lol. but yes it does depend in whats around you, I may not have raw feeding co-ops but raw feeding is popular here which does open up options. I buy a 32lbs box of ground chicken for $26, I mix it with other stuff-leftovers, veggies not fresh and crisp enough for the rabbits etc... and that box lasts 6 dogs 2 weeks, so $52 a month for 6 dogs plus a few bucks here and there for other stuff, but generally we just buy stuff for us and skim it for the dogs. vs $72 a month for Gem's(ie 1 dog only) food plus her raw extras which run about $20 a pkg

 

location matters too if your comparing to kibble, not for the availability of cheap raw but for the cost of kibble. there is no such thing as a decent kibble around here that I could feed even one dog for a month on less then $52 lol

[GentleLake]

With all due respect, if you're feeding only chicken (is that chicken backs, whole chicken including organs, just meat?) you may be shortchanging your dogs' nutritional needs.

 

It might be a good idea to do some research on what constitutes a well balanced raw diet.

[border_collie_crazy]

been feeding raw for almost 14 years thanks. I only included chicken in the dollar figure because thats the only thing we buy "for" the dogs, nothing else is designated to a specific critter human or animal.

[arf2184]

I've been feeding raw for about 12 years. Started because I had an old dog that refused every kibble I tried...she lost quite a bit of weight. Then she stopped losing and started feeling better, but still wasn't eating her kibble. Finally one night I caught her outside with a quail in her mouth. Smart girl had found the food she wanted and was starting to do well on it, but at that stage she wasn't fast enough to catch enough quail. So this prompted a ton of research before I finally decided to switch all three dogs to a raw diet. That old dog lived 6 more years, smelled much better, and shed less once she was on a raw diet (and getting enough to eat).

 

At first it was very time consuming to feed raw. I was worried about messing up and the dogs paying for my ignorance, so I measured everything carefully, blended veggies to go with the meat, and so on. But after a while I had 'duh' moment and it occurred to me that I don't carefully measure my own food and neither do wild animals and we do just fine. Now (and for the past 11 years or so) I just toss them a hunk of meat/bone every night and call it good. Some nights they get a large hunk. Some nights they get a small hunk. Every so often they get offal in addition to or instead of their meat hunk. I feed as much variety in types of meats as I can, with beef, pork, and turkey being most common. For several years I had access to some grass fed sheep and loved it. I try to avoid cheap chicken. It tends to make the dogs gassy (not to mention its likely raised in awful conditions).

 

They also eat fruits and veggies, plain yogurt, table scraps, leftovers, etc. at various times. They enjoy eating chinchilla pellets (that the chins toss out of their cages) and grass. I spend about as much time on their diet as I do my own (that is to say...not much). Variety is more important than anything I think. It works for us...the vet is always impressed with my dogs' health and teeth.

 

I don't trust the dog food companies, even the good ones....that is partly why I feed raw. Another is simply the fact that its a processed food, often with a lot if ingredients. I try to avoid these things in my own diet so why would I feed it to my dogs as their primary staple?

 

Cost wise... I spend less than I would if I fed good quality dog food, but I have access to free/cheap scraps from time to time. I do have a freezer that is mostly for the dog's meat...I think I paid $200 for it and it didn't add much to the electricity bill. For years, I just used the little freezer in the kitchen though.

 

Dog food has really not been around that long. It was created for convenience in the 1800s and only really caught on after World War II. Prior to that, dogs were fed meat and scraps and whatever they could scrounge on their own. A centuries old diet worked just fine then...I see no reason not to feed it now.

[Tommy Coyote]

I just saw a study a couple of weeks ago that said that almost all raw chicken is contaminated with salmonella. I know that it probably won't hurt the dogs but I really don't want that in my kitchen. And I don't like to handle raw meat.

 

My dogs are doing great on their prepared dog food.

[waffles]

I just saw a study a couple of weeks ago that said that almost all raw chicken is contaminated with salmonella. I know that it probably won't hurt the dogs but I really don't want that in my kitchen. And I don't like to handle raw meat.

 

My dogs are doing great on their prepared dog food.

But aren't most dog food recalls because of salmonella?? I remember peanut butter being recalled and spinach as well because of it. Recently someone locally almost died of salmonella after they didn't microwave their commercial frozen dinner long enough. I also recall tomatoes being recalled and cheeses as well. If you don't want to feed raw that is totally understandable for many reasons but being afraid of salmonella shouldn't be the big reason as other food you feed yourself or buy your dog can also have it. And you do not have to feed chicken in a raw diet. I rarely do, maybe a few times per month.

[Liz P]

I started a dog food co op so I would have access to affordable high quality kibble. Not hard to do. You get kibble at wholesale price, which is a 40 to 50% savings.

[GentleLake]

Waffles is right. Salmonella's everywhere and doesn't usually cause problems if foods for humans are properly cooked and reasonable kitchen hygiene's observed. Some white vinegar is all you need to keep things clean. Millions of Americans eat chicken that starts out raw when it enters their homes without repercussions.

 

If you don't like to handle raw meat and don't want to feed raw because of that, that's fine. But salmonella risk really isn't a realistic objection

 

On a side note, I do think that it's absolutely wrong that consumers are the ones supposed to be entirely responsible for safe food handling. IMO, food processors should be held to a much higher standard than they currently are.

[sandysfarm]

Raw feeding doesn't have to be expensive, it isn't always smelly, and if you have a freezer it's not difficult to store.

 

I'm not going to get into a defense of feeding raw, but I will say I've been doing it for 13 years now. I've been to vets who are supportive and vets who are opposed to it, but but I don't have to visit vets as often as most of my friends who feed their dogs kibble and even the vets who've been opposed to my feeding raw haven't been able to find any reason in my dogs' health to recommend to me that I stop. I've never had to take the risk of putting my dogs under general anesthesia for routine teeth cleaning because my dogs have teeth that make it impossible to determine their ages by just looking at their teeth.

 

As for raw feeding being expensive, I don't track the costs, but I don't think I spend any more for my dogs' food than I would if I were feeding a good quality kibble. There are more and more raw food co-ops springing up all over the place, so buying in bulk and/or splitting purchases with other people really keeps costs down. Of course, people can spend a lot of money if they want to buy only human grade meats from human grade sources, but most raw feeders I know don't do that.

 

There is more work involved in buying this way. For instance I get large chunks of beef from culled dairy cows for $.65/lb. It comes in frozen 50# cases so I have to let it thaw enough to cut it into portion sized pieces and refreeze them, which is somewhat time consuming. Case lots of duck or turkey neck or chicken frames also usually come in frozen cases that have to be thawed and repackaged. I could also buy all of these things ground and/or premixed if I chose to, which adds to the cost but also make it more convenient.

 

And I'm sure I save money by not having to go to the vet as often, even if you only count the cost of dental cleanings.

 

As for its being smelly, it's no more smelly than preparing your own dinner, if you eat meat. The one exception would be green tripe.

 

I have healthy dogs with shiny coats and clean teeth who don't often need to go to the vet, though I take them in annually for wellness checks just to be sure. I have an ~16 y.o. BC/spitz-type mix who has some intestinal and age related arthritis issues, but who amazes the vet every time she sees her. She's never had her teeth cleaned and was cavorting like a puppy this weekend with the neighbors' young Shiba Inu who was here for the weekend.

 

So, yeah, I think it's worth it.