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Is Your Veterinarian Being Honest w/You--ABC News


Kris L. Christine
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In all fairness to vets, after the initial sensational attention grabbing headline, the article did say that the unscrupulous vet featured was not the norm per their findings. It's all well and good to say "police your own ranks" but seriously, it's not really the job of a vet to make sure all other vets out there are honest, above board and follow our prefered vaccination schedule. I'm happy enough for one that provides quality care for my animals and listens to/respects my thoughts/concerns as their owner

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Personally, hearing from the public as often as I do on veterinary vaccines issues, I don't believe that the vaccine section of the broadcast was inflammatory or sensational at all, in fact, I believe it underestimates the scope of the problem when it comes to overvaccination of our pets. The program was intended to alert pet owners to be vigilant and informed when it comes to medical care for their precious companions.

 

Minnesota is a current example of why pet owners must be vigilant and informed when it comes to unnecessary vaccinations recommended by veterinarians (see below). Bear in mind that there are no 2 year rabies vaccines licensed in the United States and the survey, sent to all of Minnesota's licensed veterinarians, was conducted by the Minnesota Board of Veterinary Medicine, the members of which are all veterinarins.

Minnesota Rabies Vaccination Survey Report (2012) http://mn.gov/health-licensing-board...cComReport.pdf conducted by the Minnesota Board of Veterinary Medicine shows that 88.8% of veterinarians responding to a rabies survey http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/i...ey_results.pdf from the Board of Veterinary Medicine indicated they give a 3 year rabies vaccine; yet 53.3% fail to give pet owners a corresponding 3 year rabies certificate (36.2% issue a 2 year certificate, 17.1% issue "other"). When asked if they inform clients when they put a different expiration date on the rabies certificate than that on the vaccine administered, 40.9% responded that they did not inform the client.

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Some vaccines really don't seem to offer immunity much beyond a year. You can ask about titers. Most vets will offer them if you need proof of immunity. And BTW, I have seen distemper and parvo in dogs who had not been vaccinated for more than 7 years.

 

Can you expand upon your personal experience as a vet in the face of the current publicity against vaccination please?

 

I'm interested in how it is panning out in practice.

 

I'm on the side of playing it safe and that means not taking chances with my dogs catching diseases like distemper that I remember killing dogs when I was young.

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Can you expand upon your personal experience as a vet in the face of the current publicity against vaccination please?

There is a world of difference between those who are "against vaccination" and those who oppose redundant/unnecessary vaccination of animals. Please do not lump the two in the same category.

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It's all well and good to say "police your own ranks" but seriously, it's not really the job of a vet to make sure all other vets out there are honest, above board and follow our prefered vaccination schedule.

 

But perhaps it should be the job of the various professional organizations that they belong to.

 

And it's not "our" preferred vaccination schedule (whomever you're referring to as "us"). We're talking about scientifically corroborated information on both duration of immunity and risks of over vaccination.

 

So, please, tell me why it's OK for some (not all) vets to disregard this science based information and make up their own rules so that they can charge people for unnecessary and potentially harmful medications?

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In actual practice I have seen the following cases...

 

10 year old dog with distemper (confirmed via necropsy). Dog has appropriate puppy vaccines, the last given at 16 weeks old. The dog received a combo vax that included distemper at 16 months old. All vaccines were given by a veterinarian. No vaccines aside from rabies (given at a low cost clinic) had been done since 16 months of age.

 

20 week old puppy had a single combo vaccine at 16 weeks of age (adequate according to some minimal vaccines proponents). Presented for lethargy, vomiting and diarrhea. Parvo + via SNAP test. Other lab abnormalities consistent with parvo.

 

7 year old dog. Vaccinated appropriately as a puppy. No vaccines at all since then. Also parvo + and abnormalities consistent with parvo.

 

There is not a one size fits all vaccine protocol. I worry about the people recommending stopping vaccines after the puppy/kitten series. At the very least do titers.

 

I do worry about people not coming in annually because their pets are on a 3 year schedule (which happens a LOT). Unfortunately, many veterinarians placed the value of the annual visit on vaccines in the past. We created the problem ourselves, not valuing the actual exam more than the vaccines. The profession is trying to fix that perception, but it's going to take a very long time. Our practice works hard to focus on the exam, but we still see a lot of pets coming from other clinics that haven't shifted their priorities. Some of those owners are shocked when we actually do a physical exam (their pet has never had one before, the vet just popped in the vaccines and called it a day).

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Lumping all vets together as possibly dishonest = okay. Lumping together all people who oppose yearly vaccines for their dogs = not okay. That seems kind of like a double standard.

 

 

There's a big difference between "against all vaccines" and "against unnecessary yearly boosters." Its 2 completely different arguments. I think that is what Kris meant.

 

I believe in vaccines as a way to prevent disease in humans and animals. I know many people who believe vaccines are poison and cause disease, etc.

 

I don't believe I need to give my dog an annual booster vaccine for most diseases if he titers that he has some immunity and the research shows that vaccines are good for 7+ years. That does not make me Jenny McCarthy.

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do worry about people not coming in annually because their pets are on a 3 year schedule (which happens a LOT). Unfortunately, many veterinarians placed the value of the annual visit on vaccines in the past. We created the problem ourselves, not valuing the actual exam more than the vaccines. The profession is trying to fix that perception, but it's going to take a very long time. Our practice works hard to focus on the exam, but we still see a lot of pets coming from other clinics that haven't shifted their priorities. Some of those owners are shocked when we actually do a physical exam (their pet has never had one before, the vet just popped in the vaccines and called it a day).

 

Plying devil's advocate here, if my 3 year old dog is healthy and has no issues, and he doesn't need a yearly screen for something like heart worms prior to meds, why does he need a yearly exam? The guidelines for humans to see their MD when they are in their younger years in every 2-3 years.

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From the link provided by Kris.....

 

Most veterinarians base their decision to vaccinate more often than the labeled duration of

immunity upon: the veterinarian’s belief that more frequent rabies vaccination was required

by the local/regional ordinances addressing companion animal licensing and rabies vaccination; the likelihood of rabies exposure; and/or the desire to prevent the rabies vaccination

from becoming overdue.

 

 

There is little evidence that the practice of administration of rabies vaccine more often than

every three years is motivated by financial gain or a desire to deceive the owner.

This seems to contradict what has been the implied here as the motivation of these vets to vaccinate more frequently.

 

The bolded section gets as why, despite the science, vets may alter the vaccination schedule = rabies vaccination schedules have for years been based in politics more than science.

 

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There's a big difference between "against all vaccines" and "against unnecessary yearly boosters." Its 2 completely different arguments. I think that is what Kris meant.

 

I believe in vaccines as a way to prevent disease in humans and animals. I know many people who believe vaccines are poison and cause disease, etc.

 

I don't believe I need to give my dog an annual booster vaccine for most diseases if he titers that he has some immunity and the research shows that vaccines are good for 7+ years. That does not make me Jenny McCarthy.

And I'd argue that just because a vet recommends yearly vaccinations it doesn't mean that they're money hungry and unscrupulous. I think it's a bit more complex then that.

 

FWIW, I follow a 3 yr vaccination schedule and my regular vet still does yearly vaccinations. With the yearly vaccinations they do a through yearly check up. And I can't believe that they're making tons of money on the deal since the cost of vaccinations is the same as an office visit. $40 for a checkup and shots doesn't seem like a money grab. Since I don't do yearly vaccinations they'll give my dogs a check up when I take them in for HW checks or a rabies booster since those are in a different year than the 3 yr plan.

 

As far as yearly check ups for healthy dogs - I usually have them in at least once a year for something. But If I don't then I like the check up just for a precaution. Missy had a heart murmur that was detected in a yearly checkup. Since it was found early on, we keep tabs on it and started meds as soon as needed. And it never really progressed too much because of that.

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Liz P, had those dogs in your post been titered?

 

I did that with Fergie, and she tested as not needing anything but the mandatory rabies jab every 3 years for about 7 years. I would not forgo vaccine without a titer that says the dog is OK.

 

I go for a physical every year, so the dog and cat do, too. Yeah, I also make DH go for his, but that's harder as he's too big to put in the crate.

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My puppy got his last puppy shot at 16 weeks. Then we do a 1 year booster plus his 3 year rabies. Then every 3 years. But we also do a year HW check so the dogs all get in and get check out.

 

Liz: My vet isn't a big fan of titers because they had a dog titer tested for parvo and was OK and then came down with Parvo a month later.

 

I don't know but I don't want to risk having my dogs get something that is very preventable just because I didn't bother to get their shots.

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And I'd argue that just because a vet recommends yearly vaccinations it doesn't mean that they're money hungry and unscrupulous. I think it's a bit more complex then that.

True, but that is not the argument I was making.

 

To that argument, I have moved a lot, so I have had the experience of many vets, dentists, doctors, etc. I have had vets (and dentists) who I believe were trying to get me to buy every procedure they had for the sole purpose of generating revenue.

 

I had a couple of vets tell me my dogs teeth needed cleaning when they looked great, saying I needed vaccines for diseases my pets were not at risk for, saying I needed science diet foods because what I was buying at Petsmart wasn't good food. Every symptoms was reason for an MRI, etc. Those vets are out there, and it only takes 1 or 2 visits to get that feeling that you are a target of an up-sell and that they really don't have my pets best interest at heart.

 

Luckily, I have never had a hard time finding vets who were compassionate, who understood I know more than the average pet owner, who understood the limits of my pocketbooks and did their best to work with me. My current vet is a little old school but we work well together. He listens to me, I listen to him and together he has provided my kids with good care and if he tells me I need something I believe him. I always ask: what would you do if this was your pet (because I know he loves his pets too). He does annual vaccines, I explained why I didn't want to and he was ok with that. We feel lucky to have found him.

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There's a big difference between "against all vaccines" and "against unnecessary yearly boosters." Its 2 completely different arguments. I think that is what Kris meant.

Thank you, rushdoggie, it's closer, but still not quite what I meant.

 

There is a growing group of pet owners who are opposed to all or any vaccinations & some people try to claim that Dr. Schultz, Dr. Dodds and I are in that camp, which is not the case. We believe that all dogs should be vaccinated against rabies and the core diseases of distemper, hepatitis & parvo; however, we are strongly opposed to overvaccinating against those diseases.

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I don't want to over vaccinate but I sure want my dogs to be protected.

Tommy Coyote, perhaps the following information will help you achieve some peace of mind that your dogs are properly protected, but not overvaccinated.

 

If you read the 2011 American Animal Hospital Assosciation Canine Vaccine Guidelines https://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocume...Guidelines.pdf carefully, you will note that they recommend for the core MLV vaccines (distemper, hepatitis, parvo) to be boostered at intervals of 3 years or more. On Page 4 of the report under "comments & recommendations", it states the following about the core MLV vaccines:

 

[Distemper] "Among healthy dogs, the rCDV vaccine has been shown to induce a protective immune response lasting at least 5 yr."

 

[Parvo] "Among healthy dogs, all commercially available MLV-CPV-2 vaccines are expected to induce a sustained protective immune response lasting at least 5 yr."

 

[Hepatitis] "Among healthy dogs, all commercially available MLV-CAV-2 vaccines are expected to induce a sustained protective immune response lasting at least 7 yr."

 

On Page 13 is the following (underscoring & emphasis added):

 

Duration of Immunity and Booster Recommendations

 

In general, DOI to infectious viral and bacterial vaccines is longer than to noninfectious viral and bacterial vaccines, and immunity conferred is generally much longer to viral vaccines than to bacterial vaccines. DOI is often related to the immunologic mechanisms of killing or control of the pathogens, and also to the complexity of the disease and the disease agent. Infectious core vaccines are not only highly effective, they also provide the longest DOI, extending from 5 yr up to the life of the dog. A >3 yr interval is currently recommended for revaccinating adult dogs with infectious viral core vaccines..... The >3 yr recommendation for core vaccines is made on the basis of minimum DOI studies over the past 30 yr for canine vaccines.

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No, those dogs had not had a titer done. Titers are still not fully understood and should not been viewed as hard evidence of immunity. Dogs with low titers can be immune while those with high titers might get sick.

 

Dogs age must faster than people, so a once a year exam for them is like a person going to their doctor about every 7 years. For senior pets we recommend every 6 months. Our goal is to identify problems early so that we have a chance at curing them or at least slowing disease progression. Remember, dogs and cats can't talk, so we have to rely more heavily on exams, blood tests and other diagnostics to find problems.

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Plying devil's advocate here, if my 3 year old dog is healthy and has no issues, and he doesn't need a yearly screen for something like heart worms prior to meds, why does he need a yearly exam? The guidelines for humans to see their MD when they are in their younger years in every 2-3 years.

 

Dogs don't age at the same rate as humans. The age faster, so waiting 2-3 years for wellness exams would be more like a human only having one every 8-10 years.

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I guess that in the long run, if you are an animal owner and you don't feel your vet is giving you the kind of service you feel appropriate, find another vet. If you have a caring, capable, respectful vet (which I believe the vast majority are, or at least the vast majority I have dealt with are), be grateful. Do what you can do to educate yourself, work *with* your vet, and treat your vet with respect. Your vet is only human, just like you are.

 

There are rarely totally simple answers to care and treatment. What works best for one animal may not be what works best for the next patient. What is today's medical or veterinary "best" diagnosis and treatment plan may well be considered the wrong or less productive approach tomorrow. The results of science are only as good as they are at this point in time.

 

JMO.

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There is a world of difference between those who are "against vaccination" and those who oppose redundant/unnecessary vaccination of animals. Please do not lump the two in the same category.

 

But one person's view of what is redundant/unnecessary may not be the same as another's. Those in your second category aren't a homogeneous group either.

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A blog entry with the other perspective. Very timely after my day. Three cases of terminal cancer and a DOA (also cancer).

 

A pertinent message for those who persist in vet bashing.

 

As Sue R says, if you aren't happy with your vet, change. I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming through the door of the other practice in our town but I'm happy with my own. Most people I know are generally happy and on good terms with theirs.

 

I remember the morning I called to see how my dog was after a night at the vets to be met by the head vet and the vet who had cared for him that night to be told that he had died.

 

I was expecting it and the head vet, who knows me quite well, announced the fact bluntly (because that's the sort of relationship we have - no pussyfooting around) but the younger one was in tears.

I felt more sorry for her than for myself.

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