Need help turning my 3 year old BC to a disc dog

[JayBee612]

I adopted him about a month ago from a family that didn't have enough time for his mental and physical needs anymore. He was a rescue, they adopted him as a 1 year old stray from a shelter.

The first week he showed no interest in the disc at all. He didn't even want to sniff it. I started using it as a food bowl. Then I started teaching him to take it out of my hand. Both above his head and at his level. After that I taught him to pick it up off the ground.

He seems a little hesitant when it comes to taking it out of my hand, he knows what I want, he just does it slowly. How do I get him to grab it more aggressively.
(not aggressive just faster)

Once he learned to grab it off the ground I taught him to chase the disc when I rolled it. This took him a few days to pick up and sometimes he doesn't chase the disc. Most of the time he does though. After that I stepped it up a bit and started throwing them. I taught him a "get it" command which he knows pretty well. (Get it: pick up laying disc off the ground) He learned to play fetch in a short distances after that.

He seems scared or timid of flying discs. He blinks, ducks, and flinches when the disc is coming at him. Even if it is thrown soft and lands well short of him. How do I get him to lose this fear and go and grab the disc? Even if he stands on his back legs to get it above his head and I drop the disc he gets scared of it. I just drop it straight down, no power at all. Also when he fetches the discs, he walks to them and walks back. He doesn't seem excited about it.

 

We are in my room that is fairly big, I took him outside today and he was distracted by dogs barking in other yards and cars on a street about 100 meters away or further. He was also distracted after the dogs stopped barking. He would take the disc out of my hand very gently and drop it, then wonder off to go sniff. He wouldn't even chase the discs when I threw them. This was the first time trying outside so I kind of understand. It was still extremely frustrating tho. He even started laying and didn't want to get up!

I give him a lot of praise when he does a good job, I'm also using a clicker and his favorite dog treats.

Thank you to anyone who offers me advice, I'll truly appreciate it.

[mum24dog]

If he's scared of the disc why is it so important to you that he is enthusiastic about them? He will know when you are frustrated.

(Personally I hate the things because of the potential for injury and have never used one with my dogs.)

You have had him no time at all and your first task is to get him to trust you. This could take some time but once he does trust you is the time think about getting him to play with toys. If he is worried or insecure play is going to be the last thing on his mind.

He would take the disc out of my hand very gently and drop it, then wonder off to go sniff. He wouldn't even chase the discs when I threw them. This was the first time trying outside so I kind of understand. It was still extremely frustrating tho. He even started laying and didn't want to get up!

He is giving you the clearest message he can that he really doesn't want to do it in his current frame of mind. Shelve the Frisbee ftb and go at his pace, concentrating on things he is more comfortable with.

I use a clicker and I know that you can teach such things as a mechanical behaviour if you aren't careful. If you put too much emphasis on it before he is ready you will just stress him out and he may never get to like it.

There is hope - my Ross came as a shivering wreck who wouldn't eat or play for quite a while. If anyone looked at him he would pee, but eventually he turned into a ball fiend. I did the sort of training you are doing but only when we knew each other better and he had decided I was his person who would treat him right.

[gcv-border]

I second the advice from mum24dog. He needs more time to trust you and be comfortable with his new circumstances.

 

Good Luck.

 

Jovi

[mum24dog]

It's worth bearing in mind that an older dog may have a whole lot of experiences to unlearn before they can move forward - much more so than a pup for which virtually everything may be new and exciting.

[alligande]

I agree with all of the above, my suggestion is try other toys as well. My first border collie hated frisbee, over the years we would go back and try different frisbees, fabric ones, rubber ones did not matter he did not like them, it looked like he did not like the way they fell from the sky, he would duck and side step them. He would play frisbee style games for a tennis ball, he would do anything to get a tennis ball so we gave up on frisbee and played with balls.

My current dog loves all fetch and catch games but his favorite toy is a slightly deflated soccer ball, if all the other options are available he brings this to play with most days, but remember dogs have preferences too and on another day he might bring his frisbee.

[JayBee612]

If he's scared of the disc why is it so important to you that he is enthusiastic about them? He will know when you are frustrated.

 

(Personally I hate the things because of the potential for injury and have never used one with my digs.)

 

You have had him no time at all and your first task is to get him to trust you. This could take some time but once he does trust you is the time think about getting him to play with toys.

 

He is giving you the clearest message he can that he really doesn't want to do it in his current frame of mind.

 

 

I second the advice from mum24dog. He needs more time to trust you and be comfortable with his new circumstances.

 

Good Luck.

 

Jovi

 

 

1. I want to teach him Frisbee so he can burn off energy besides going on 5 miles runs.

 

2. They are Frisbee designed specially for dogs, designed with safety for there teeth in mind.

 

3. I'm sure he trusts me! He follows me every where! I stubbed my already injured toe and he jumped on my bed in pain, in no time at all he popped out of his sleep and also jumped on my bed. He started licking me, then plopped down next to me to confront me. He looks at me as the pack leader, no doubt in my mind. I sure he trusted me after a week or less. I say come he comes running. Sit, lay, stay, shake, he doesn't hesitate to do them. (taught if shake the 2nd day I had him)

 

4. The only time I was frustrated was when he would lay and didn't get back up when I called. I had him grab the Frisbee one last time, clicked and gave him a treat and we went for a run. Besides that I praise him when he does right and ignore him (no eye contact) when he does wrong. Then we try again.

 

5. He wags his tail when I get the Frisbees and follows them with his eyes. He clearly has interest in them he just seems a little unsure. He fetches them multiple times (10-15) before switching the training exercise.

 

 

With all that said I figured some stuff out last night.

 

• When a take a few steps, he takes that as the cue to lung a little bit and grab it out of my hand.

  (more aggressively then before)

• I gave him more than verbal praise when ever he did good. He got a ton of verbal praise, also he got a treat an intense back rub or I petted his head with the verbal praise. It seemed to get his energy levels going a little bit.

   

  I feel like when I first got him I taught him to settle down inside. I think I just need to get him riled up a little bit and let him know play time is when to get excited.

   

  He actually jogged to get the Frisbee in my room and ran back.

   

  The problem now is getting him to grab them out of the air. I just want to make sure I'm not teaching him to only grab them out of my hand or off the floor.

   

  Also I'm going to find a new spot outside to play at with less distractions. It is about to snow here in Minnesota so I plan on building up his Frisbee drive every day during the winter to get him ready for spring. His Frisbee drive has gone way up! It is by far his favorite toy to fetch.

   

  We played tug 2 or 3 times with his rope. He loses interest after one good tug. (1 min of tugging) He does like to chew on the rope tho.

   

  He doesn't play fetch with his tennis balls like he does with the Frisbees at all.

[JayBee612]

I agree with all of the above, my suggestion is try other toys as well.

 

My first border collie hated frisbee, over the years we would go back and try different frisbees, fabric ones, rubber ones did not matter he did not like them.

 

It looked like he did not like the way they fell from the sky, he would duck and side step them.

 

He would play frisbee style games for a tennis ball, he would do anything to get a tennis ball so we gave up on frisbee and played with balls.

 

My current dog loves all fetch and catch games but his favorite toy is a slightly deflated soccer ball,

 

Remember dogs have preferences too and on another day he might bring his frisbee.

 

 

1. I have tried a rope and tennis ball, the Frisbee is what he will go get and bring back consistently. Just slowly

 

2. Did you try using it as a food bowl for a week? It makes them associate it with a positive thing. I also placed a treat on top of it, so he would stand to get the treat. Then I clicked and gave him a treat from my pocket. After that I handed it to him on his level and clicked once he grabbed the Frisbee. (no treat on Frisbee) He automatically put these 2 actions together very quickly and started standing, to grab the Frisbee above his head.

 

3. He dose the same thing, I have noticed he is less likely to do this now tho. He more or less watches them drop. He does duck or step a side from time to time. He grabs them off the floor after they fall though.

 

4. I'd say his Frisbees are his favorite toy. I'm not sure what games the other family played with him. He doesn't bring back his other toys as consistently as the Frisbee. Also I have a bunch of soccer balls, I might see if he likes the smaller sized 4 ball I don't use.

 

 

With all that said I figured some stuff out last night.

 

• When a take a few steps, he takes that as the cue to lung a little bit and grab it out of my hand.

  (more aggressively then before)

• I gave him more than verbal praise when ever he did good. He got a ton of verbal praise, also he got a treat an intense back rub or I petted his head with the verbal praise. It seemed to get his energy levels going a little bit.

   

  I feel like when I first got him I taught him to settle down inside. I think I just need to get him riled up a little bit and let him know play time is when to get excited.

   

  He actually jogged to get the Frisbee in my room and ran back.

   

  The problem now is getting him to grab them out of the air. I just want to make sure I'm not teaching him to only grab them out of my hand or off the floor.

   

  Also I'm going to find a new spot outside to play at with less distractions. It is about to snow here in Minnesota so I plan on building up his Frisbee drive every day during the winter to get him ready for spring. His Frisbee drive has gone way up! It is by far his favorite toy to fetch.

[JayBee612]

Does anyone have tips on how they got their border collie to grab the Frisbee out of the air?

What methods or techniques did you to accomplish this part of it?

Right now, I'm just getting him good at fetching it indoors, hoping his drive will go up to chase it. In hopes when we get outside in the spring he will just naturally jump up to get it. Not wanting to wait for it to come down.

(I first taught him to catch treats and he would sit or lay and wait for them to come to him, now he goes up to get the treat)

[rushdoggie]

Even if he doesn't catch it he can still play with it for exercise. I have 2 dogs who will not catch but will still run after a thrown frisbee and pick it up and bring it back.

 

Dogs chase toys because its exciting like catching a critter. They tend to be excited by things that move and skitter, like a wounded squirrel. Once the squirrel "dies" (stops moving) they tend to be less likely to grab it. A "dead" frisbee in your hand is just not exciting.

 

Get a nice, soft, wobbly cloth frisbee. Sit on the floor and make that thing skitter, run and be erratic. If he shows any interest let him have it. Praise! if he drops it, grab it and play again. If he keeps it DON"T TAKE IT AWAY FROM HIM. Use a second frisbee and play with it.

 

Once he is happily grabbing, pouncing on it, toss it a few feet. Then eventually you can work up to tossing it towards him.

 

Once he ca catch something soft and exciting, go back to your rollers on the ground and see how he feels about it.

 

A month is not a long time to have a dog, it may take a while for him to feel comfortable getting excited and playing with you.

[Sekah]

 

. I want to teach him Frisbee so he can burn off energy besides going on 5 miles runs.

 

2. They are Frisbee designed specially for dogs, designed with safety for there teeth in mind.

 

3. I'm sure he trusts me! He follows me every where! I stubbed my already injured toe and he jumped on my bed in pain, in no time at all he popped out of his sleep and also jumped on my bed. He started licking me, then plopped down next to me to confront me. He looks at me as the pack leader, no doubt in my mind. I sure he trusted me after a week or less. I say come he comes running. Sit, lay, stay, shake, he doesn't hesitate to do them. (taught if shake the 2nd day I had him)

 

4. The only time I was frustrated was when he would lay and didn't get back up when I called. I had him grab the Frisbee one last time, clicked and gave him a treat and we went for a run. Besides that I praise him when he does right and ignore him (no eye contact) when he does wrong. Then we try again.

 

5. He wags his tail when I get the Frisbees and follows them with his eyes. He clearly has interest in them he just seems a little unsure. He fetches them multiple times (10-15) before switching the training exercise.

 

 

With all that said I figured some stuff out last night.

 

• When a take a few steps, he takes that as the cue to lung a little bit and grab it out of my hand.

  (more aggressively then before)

• I gave him more than verbal praise when ever he did good. He got a ton of verbal praise, also he got a treat an intense back rub or I petted his head with the verbal praise. It seemed to get his energy levels going a little bit.

   

  I feel like when I first got him I taught him to settle down inside. I think I just need to get him riled up a little bit and let him know play time is when to get excited.

   

  He actually jogged to get the Frisbee in my room and ran back.

   

  The problem now is getting him to grab them out of the air. I just want to make sure I'm not teaching him to only grab them out of my hand or off the floor.

   

  Also I'm going to find a new spot outside to play at with less distractions. It is about to snow here in Minnesota so I plan on building up his Frisbee drive every day during the winter to get him ready for spring. His Frisbee drive has gone way up! It is by far his favorite toy to fetch.

   

  We played tug 2 or 3 times with his rope. He loses interest after one good tug. (1 min of tugging) He does like to chew on the rope tho.

   

  He doesn't play fetch with his tennis balls like he does with the Frisbees at all.

 

It sounds like you're trying to achieve way too much way too fast. Slow down. First, it's not a race. Second, the better your foundation the better the finished result will be. Third, slow down!

 

Tugging for a minute is a LONG TIME! No wonder he loses interest. How long are your frisbee sessions? At this point they probably shouldn't be any longer than 1-2 minutes, tops. I understand the desire to do more (seriously, I do -- it's one of my biggest training flaws) but you need to let your dog set the pace. You're trying to make this into a fun game for the dog, but you're putting a lot of pressure on your dog with all of your expectations; expectations which may not be realistic.

 

Work on building drive for the game. Get him riled up, present the disc, play for 30 seconds (TOPS) then put it away. All fun stops. Time to ignore the dog and carry on with what you were doing. The number one rule for building enthusiasm for a game is to stop the game before your dog is ready. It's hard for us handlers who tend to just want to do it "one more time...". Set a stop watch and allot 30 seconds for play and when the timer goes off, you stop. No cheating.

 

I also think that the dog needs more confidence before you can really up your game with him. You say he follows you around, and will duck his head, etc. Obviously those aren't markers of a confident dog. For a dog to play he needs to feel safe and confident in the rules of the game. Right now it doesn't sound like he knows the rules of the game, nor is he particularly happy to play... yet. So, again, go back and work on your foundations to help build everything up.

 

There are multiple types of frisbees designed for dogs. I use Hero Airs most of the time, but I'll often use a softer one, a Jaws Soflite, for training tricks as my dog doesn't have a particularly hard mouth and she's not a fan of the harder plastic. You can get rubber discs made by Kong as well as material ones which your dog may prefer. Experiment on different types of discs while working on foundation behaviours. As the two of you grow as a team you can graduate to more standard competition level discs.

 

And while it doesn't seem like you're at this point yet, practice throwing discs alone. It isn't fair to your dog to have their chase after poor throws, especially while trying to build their love for the game. The better you are at throwing a disc the more confident your dog will be in his catch.

[JayBee612]

It sounds like you're trying to achieve way too much way too fast. Slow down. First, it's not a race. Second, the better your foundation the better the finished result will be. Third, slow down!

 

Tugging for a minute is a LONG TIME! No wonder he loses interest. How long are your frisbee sessions? At this point they probably shouldn't be any longer than 1-2 minutes, tops. I understand the desire to do more (seriously, I do -- it's one of my biggest training flaws) but you need to let your dog set the pace. You're trying to make this into a fun game for the dog, but you're putting a lot of pressure on your dog with all of your expectations; expectations which may not be realistic.

 

Work on building drive for the game. Get him riled up, present the disc, play for 30 seconds (TOPS) then put it away. All fun stops. Time to ignore the dog and carry on with what you were doing. The number one rule for building enthusiasm for a game is to stop the game before your dog is ready. It's hard for us handlers who tend to just want to do it "one more time...". Set a stop watch and allot 30 seconds for play and when the timer goes off, you stop. No cheating.

 

I also think that the dog needs more confidence before you can really up your game with him. You say he follows you around, and will duck his head, etc. Obviously those aren't markers of a confident dog. For a dog to play he needs to feel safe and confident in the rules of the game. Right now it doesn't sound like he knows the rules of the game, nor is he particularly happy to play... yet. So, again, go back and work on your foundations to help build everything up.

 

 

 

And while it doesn't seem like you're at this point yet, practice throwing discs alone. It isn't fair to your dog to have their chase after poor throws, especially while trying to build their love for the game. The better you are at throwing a disc the more confident your dog will be in his catch.

 

1. I will take that in to consideration! I will try to slow down.

 

2. He would keep tugging so I let him keep going. I said let go and he let go, he doesn't bite it hard the next time though. I thought maybe he thought I didn't want him to tug anymore. He will go run after it when i throw it and start shaking it. He still shows interest in the rope. I will shorting the tug sessions though. As far as the Frisbee sessions I would say they go for 5-10 min. (way to long haha)

 

He actually did really well last night at a longer training session. I feel like he would have kept playing, I did stop it before he got bored though. (I did multiple different things with the Frisbee, I didn't want to be to redundant)

 

3. I agree he might need more confidence, this has also crossed my mind. Any tips on building a dogs confidence? Is it bad he follows me around? I thought that was a good thing. He is getting better at not ducking his head or stepping aside like he did when we first started. He just stares at it and watches it fall most of the times. (the last few days)

 

I think he is happy to play though, I think hes just unsure of all the rules. When we were done last night he was panting and wagging his tail.

 

4. I don't want to sound cocky, I don't think my throws are the problem though, I'm a athlete and I also play ultimate Frisbee. Throwing a Frisbee is something i have been doing for a while.

 

(i agree though, bad throws aren't fair to the dog)

 

 

Thank you for your input, I truly appreciate it.

 

If you have any tips on building up a dogs confidence I would love to hear them.

[GentleLake]

3. I'm sure he trusts me! He follows me every where! I stubbed my already injured toe and he jumped on my bed in pain, in no time at all he popped out of his sleep and also jumped on my bed. He started licking me, then plopped down next to me to confront me. He looks at me as the pack leader, no doubt in my mind. I sure he trusted me after a week or less. I say come he comes running. Sit, lay, stay, shake, he doesn't hesitate to do them. (taught if shake the 2nd day I had him)

 

I'm not sure any of this proves trust. I suspect instead that it's insecurity. He's been through some big changes in his life and he's not very confident about what life is going to throw at him, but you're the only game in town so he's clinging.

 

It's also possible that he just doesn't know how to play and that it's just taking him some time to catch on. It sounds like he's learned an awful lot in a very short period of time, so maybe this is just something that's taking a little longer. Or maybe disk will never be his thing. We all have preferences, and maybe this just isn't his.

 

Six years ago I adopted an approx. 2 y.o. BC who didn't know how to play. He didn't know how to play with a human, another dog or toys. I taught him to play with me, my other dog taught him to play with her, and together we taught him to play with toys. But the one thing that he didn't seem to catch onto was playing fetch. It took 3 1/2 years for him to learn how to fetch a ball! (I'll admit that I'd given up for much of that time and wasn't trying any longer.) Finally, it was the right ball (actually a plush squeaky egg from an Egg Babies toy) and the right time and he eventually got it. And then, he instantly turned into a stereotypical ball-obsessed border collie! And he'll go for a disk now, but he's not as adept with it, or as enthusiastic about it, as he is a ball. Clearly, it's just not as much his thing.

 

So my advice is to be patient and let him build his confidence by practicing things he is good at. Slow down with the disk, reevaluate your expectations and don't put too much pressure on him. I'd bet he senses your frustration and that this just makes him more uneasy -- and less enthusiastic -- about the disk.

 

If he's running 5 miles a day, plus all the other play you're doing with him, he's most likely getting enough exercise. Enjoy him for who he is and don't put too much emphasis on making him be more. At least not yet. One month is really a very short time for an adopted dog to adjust to his new home (one trainer told me he believes the adjustment period is a minimum of three months). It sounds like he's really doing great!

[GentleLake]

 

 

 

4. I don't want to sound cocky, I don't think my throws are the problem though, I'm a athlete and I also play ultimate Frisbee. Throwing a Frisbee is something i have been doing for a while.

 

 

 

Ahhhh . . . could it be that you're projecting your desires on him? You play (and I'm guessing excel at) ultimate Frisbee . . . so is it possible you want him to also, because you do?

 

It really sounds to me like he's picking it up, but maybe just not quite as quickly as you'd like him to.

 

As I said in my previous post, maybe Frisbee isn't really going to be his thing.

 

It's great when your interests and your dog's mesh, but it doesn't always happen that way. If he's not the great Frisbee player you want him to be, I'm sure that'll be disappointing to you. But it's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean he's not a great dog in his own right with the things he can do.

 

So, slow down in your expectations for Frisbee. He may never be a great disc dog . . . or maybe he will, with just some time and patience. He's got a lot on his plate right now just learning to be your dog. I think you'll both be a lot happier with each other if you take the pressure off and let things develop at his pace.

 

And if he doesn't end up becoming an ultimate Frisbee dog? So what? He's still awesome! Love your dog for who he is.

[JayBee612]

 

I'm not sure any of this proves trust. I suspect instead that it's insecurity. He's been through some big changes in his life and he's not very confident about what life is going to throw at him, but you're the only game in town so he's clinging.

 

It's also possible that he just doesn't know how to play and that it's just taking him some time to catch on. It sounds like he's learned an awful lot in a very short period of time, so maybe this is just something that's taking a little longer. Or maybe disk will never be his thing. We all have preferences, and maybe this just isn't his.

 

Six years ago I adopted an approx. 2 y.o. BC who didn't know how to play. He didn't know how to play with a human, another dog or toys. I taught him to play with me, my other dog taught him to play with her, and together we taught him to play with toys. But the one thing that he didn't seem to catch onto was playing fetch. It took 3 1/2 years for him to learn how to fetch a ball! (I'll admit that I'd given up for much of that time and wasn't trying any longer.) Finally, it was the right ball (actually a plush squeaky egg from an Egg Babies toy) and the right time and he eventually got it. And then, he instantly turned into a stereotypical ball-obsessed border collie! And he'll go for a disk now, but he's not as adept with it, or as enthusiastic about it, as he is a ball. Clearly, it's just not as much his thing.

 

So my advice is to be patient and let him build his confidence by practicing things he is good at. Slow down with the disk, reevaluate your expectations and don't put too much pressure on him. I'd bet he senses your frustration and that this just makes him more uneasy -- and less enthusiastic -- about the disk.

 

If he's running 5 miles a day, plus all the other play you're doing with him, he's most likely getting enough exercise. Enjoy him for who he is and don't put too much emphasis on making him be more. At least not yet. One month is really a very short time for an adopted dog to adjust to his new home (one trainer told me he believes the adjustment period is a minimum of three months). It sounds like he's really doing great!

 

 

Ahhhh . . . could it be that you're projecting your desires on him? You play (and I'm guessing excel at) ultimate Frisbee . . . so is it possible you want him to also, because you do?

 

It really sounds to me like he's picking it up, but maybe just not quite as quickly as you'd like him to.

 

As I said in my previous post, maybe Frisbee isn't really going to be his thing.

 

It's great when your interests and your dog's mesh, but it doesn't always happen that way. If he's not the great Frisbee player you want him to be, I'm sure that'll be disappointing to you. But it's not the end of the world, and it doesn't mean he's not a great dog in his own right with the things he can do.

 

So, slow down in your expectations for Frisbee. He may never be a great disc dog . . . or maybe he will, with just some time and patience. He's got a lot on his plate right now just learning to be your dog. I think you'll both be a lot happier with each other if you take the pressure off and let things develop at his pace.

 

And if he doesn't end up becoming an ultimate Frisbee dog? So what? He's still awesome! Love your dog for who he is.

 

1. I don't think he is clingy at all, he just likes to be by me. If I tell him to stay while I leave the room or house he'll just lay down until I get back. He looks at me as the leader over my mom or sister. (he is my dog)

 

2. I also have a mini poodle, that dog didn't know fetch, he was possessive over his toys and would bite. We adopted him at age 6, from a lady with 15 cats. He had no rules and thought he was a cat! All his bad behaviors are gone now besides 1 or 2 small things. This border collie is an angel compared to the mini poodle when we first got him. (turning 8 in march)

 

3. I will be patient, I'm not sure if slowing down with the disk is right. I think its to soon to try outside with distractions, I think our indoor training sessions will make him more confident over time though. I'm not frustration normally, it was that one time outside where he was laying and wouldn't get up or come.

 

(do border collies lay when they herd, i know they crutch and do the collie walk)

 

4. I love my dog for who he is no matter what! He is doing extremely great if it takes 3 months for a dog to readjust. I'm not worried he doesn't get a enough exercise. I just want other outlets for him to burn his energy off with. Sometimes he does 2 running sessions of 5 miles. (day and evening with plenty of food sleep and water in between)

 

5. You could be right about that, he is picking it up, but maybe not as quickly as i would wish. I feel like he made big progress last night and again today. I didn't play with him for a few days and just trained him and ran with him.

 

6. I know its not the end of the world, he is going to learn Frisbee, he picking up, he just seems a little unsure at times. I also switched a couple things I do myself when teaching him to play Frisbee. Its a learning process for the both of us. I also plan on having him do some agility next summer. I know its not the end of the world and I love my dog no matter what.

 

7. He is developing at his own pace, that is the only way to teach a dog. My mini poodle didn't know how to play fetch, he would run with his toys and hide under a bed or anything and bite you if you tried to get it. This dog doesn't bite and actually brings it back to you when you say "come or bring it." I'm sure he will get it! I just wanted a few tips and techniques from people who may have ran in to these problems while training their border collie buddies.

 

Thank you though, I appreciate the advice.

[SS Cressa]

I know when I needed to increase my dogs drive for toys/food the best advice I got was 1. Play keep away 2. Make it fun.

 

To make my boy want to come back faster I would run away from him or have a different toy in my hand that was the BEST TOY EVER at least that was how I treated the toy.

[JayBee612]

I know when I needed to increase my dogs drive for toys/food the best advice I got was 1. Play keep away 2. Make it fun.

 

To make my boy want to come back faster I would run away from him or have a different toy in my hand that was the BEST TOY EVER at least that was how I treated the toy.

 

 

Thank you that is great advice, running away works to get them to come back faster! I started doing that today/last night after I posted.

 

I also kind of did keep away as well. I'd act like I wanted him to take it from my hand, pull it back, fake a throw and then throw it and he did run towards it!

 

I will take you advice and do some more keep away before I throw it.

[Sue R]

Remember that hard physical activity is not the only or necessarily the best way to tire out a dog. Mental stimulation is just as tiring and sometimes even more so as it taxes the mind in a good way. If you train a dog that he/she needs a *lot* of activity, you will wind up with a dog that needs a *lot* of activity. So think not only about what you'd like to be doing with your dog but about how those things you are doing with your dog are shaping your dog.

 

I learned with one of my dogs that there can be problems with *too much* encouragement. He is a dog that is very sensitive to pressure and what I was trying to do when he was put off by pressure (he's a working stockdog and we have cattle, but the principle applies to other things, too) was to provide lots of encouragement. But, too much encouragement puts a lot of pressure on a dog and my approach was backfiring, and I was not getting the result I'd hoped for. I realized this and changed my approach (a bit like the "keep away" mentioned above) by just accepting that he couldn't work in the face of the pressure he was feeling from the cattle. I just silently went up and helped without telling him to do anything, and he was able to learn and make progress - because I removed the pressure that I was putting on and helped reduce the pressure he was feeling from the livestock, and letting him feel it wasn't such a "big deal".

 

Sometimes, backing off a bit can make it easier on a dog by removing the pressure that he/she may be feeling from either the activity or the encouragement the handler is providing that might be a little too much (or too soon or too quickly). "Keep away" works by taking this to a higher level, by pretending you don't really want him to want or have "your" toy...reverse psychology in action.

[gcv-border]

5. You could be right about that, he is picking it up, but maybe not as quickly as i would wish. I feel like he made big progress last night and again today. I didn't play with him for a few days and just trained him and ran with him.

This is a good example that giving a dog a rest from training a single skill can sometimes be better than drilling every day. You will just have to feel your way on this depending on how your dog responds, but I usually like to mix up my training so that if I am training a specific skill, I give my dog a few days or a week or two break, before I start training that specific skill again

 

I have heard many examples of dogs that are learning a skill (herding or otherwise) who will seem to grasp the concept better after some time off. Maybe they have had time to think about it?

 

Jovi

[JayBee612]

I feel like the extra praise has re-ensured him on the stuff he already knows.

I don't feel like a lack of trust is the issue at all! My dog trusts me.

I even noticed the times we trained yesterday and today/tonight he seems less afraid of the Frisbee flying and more eager to see where its going to land.

I try not to throw it directly at my dog, for the fact I don't want to hit him in his head, and let him have a bad experience with the Frisbee. There were a couple throws that went about 6 inches over his head and he simply turned to see where it went. This is a huge improvement.

Also I have seen improvements on how quick he gets it and brings it back with added praise.

I have also started a training exercise with the "get it" command. Where it is on the floor, and I have him get it. Then he follows me as I walk away from him. I click when he gets to where I stop at and he gets a treat. Then we go back to the old spot or a new spot.

(I never touch the Frisbee)


Here are a few short videos, because it will be easier for you guys to help if you see the dog in action, instead of my words.

(keep in mind he has improved in the last 2 or 3 nights, after taking a few days off and extra praise)

Sorry for no sound and and the orientation of the video, the only thing i had was my phone and the mic doesn't work. I was using a clicker and a lot of praise.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/fYztywBqxpI

http://www.youtube.com/embed/x1U4u_1qgZI

[mum24dog]

I think you may be misreading your dog. Yes his tail is wagging as you said earlier but it's a worried wag. There's a lot on the net about canine body language that will help you.

 

I totally agree with Sue R in that too much encouragement and pressure can be counterproductive.

An insecure dog needs a calm approach, not cheerleading which can be threatening to a dog.

 

If he follows you around that could be a case of " better the devil you know" - sticking with you is the least bad option if the alternative is the complete unknown. It doesn't mean that he trusts you yet. Trust has to be earned and it can take a long time with some dogs. Ross stuck to me like superglue from Day 1 and wouldn't let me out of his sight but he didn't trust any human for a long time.

 

He licked you when you stubbed your toe but try and see it from his pov; he's trying to get used to your world and understand your behaviour patterns but you behave in a way he doesn't expect. He licks you because that is a common appeasement signal for a dog, not necessarily a sign of affection.

 

Most of us would like to think we are the centre of our dog's world, I'm sure, and I'm equally sure that some would be right. I'm also sure that no one will tell you that they got to the stage where there was trust and mutual understanding in the short time you have had your dog.

 

Clicker training will give him confidence when he knows exactly what you want from him but calm it down. Train easy and calm behaviours first and one step at a time. Insecure dogs respond best to slow and deliberate body language from their trainer. Keep your voice gentle and stop trying to hype him up before he is ready.

[Sue R]

Well said, Pam.

[GentleLake]

Mum24dog is spot on!

 

This dog isn't confident. And he's not having fun.

 

I think he has the potential to be/do both someday, but he needs to build confidence and trust first. Please give him time and a low pressure environment to do this.

[mum24dog]

JayBee612 -

 

I would add that you need to be aware of what you are marking when you click. It isn't just a case of marking what he is doing but also how he is feeling. You may think you are marking interaction with the Frisbee but for your dog it could be Frisbee = feeling bad and being reinforced for feeling bad. Not what you want if you are trying to get him to enjoy playing with it.

 

Dogs are so good at creating associations we don't expect.

 

I bet everyone on here who uses a clicker has at some time trained something they didn't intend because they were focussing too hard on the prime objective. Hopefully we learn to be more observant from our mistakes.

 

Of course we only have a couple of short clips and what you say to go on and it would need someone experienced in body language to observe his behaviour in person to make an accurate assessment but people who have posted on here that you should ease up on him for a while may be doing so with the experience of dealing with reluctant dogs for many years and they can recognise the likely scenario.

 

You are clearly determined to get the best out of him and are prepared to work hard at it which is to be applauded, but often in dog training less is more. If you are patient and take basic training more slowly you will almost certainly find that further along the line he will be up for learning all sorts of stuff much more quickly than if you make it a hard slog now by putting such pressure on you both to succeed.

[waffles]

I definitely agree with all the advice that has been given so far. I want to add that you will want to not throw the disc over your dogs head like in the video if you do progress with frisbee play. Dogs can't see what's over their head and it won't be catchable either.

You want the frisbee to glide parallel to your dog when he runs out for it so he can catch it in his mouth. Now the frisbee flies over his head and then he slowly trots over to get it. I would also move outside and throw rollers. A fast roller will be way more exciting then a disc soaring closely over his head. Throw it a few times then put the disc away. All the verbal encouragement puts pressure on your dog. Just be quiet or say good boy as he brings it back or as he brings it back run away from him.

Good luck, you'll get there. My boy loved frisbee when I got him but couldn't catch it. Now people think he is some type of pro disc dog.

[ncsugrad54]

I agree with the advice already given. Your dog def doesn't seem to be enjoying it and you are putting way too much pressure on him. I know where you are coming from. I too used to (until the last year) play ultimate competitively. I also have a 3 yr old BC that I rescued about 6 months ago. I wanted her to be a disc dog as well. Since then I have backed off of pressuring her to do that. I have done some herding with her and she really enjoys that! Give your dog time to bond with you. My dog didn't know what toys were either, but now she is interested in frisbees and a ball. She has learned from watching my other dog.

 

I would also like to point out that I recommend Hyperflite frisbees. Don't use the cheap ones from Petsmart or such. These are made better and used in the Skyhoundz competitions.