Dog Park Trauma

[Shazmnldb]

Hi all

Just thought I would post a question on the unusual behaviour of my 8 month old female. We have a wonderful dog park close by and Lilli has been there a few times with no issues. Loves the other dogs and just goes completely nuts like all of them. Yesterday, however very different story. In the past when we have been there, there has only been a handful of dogs but yesterday there was about 30. We entered the park and as we always do, before I let her off the lead she introduces herself to the others and all is good from there.. Yesterday we had just started doing this when a Husky came bounding up to her and totally freaked her out. From that point on she was uncontrollable (still on lead at this point. She then spent the next half hour barking her head off at every dog that came near her. She is very well socialised, does obedience every Saturday and I am at a loss as to why she was acting this way. Could it be that the Husky is so fluffy that she could not distinguish that it was a dog and it was also quite a lot bigger than her. One of her best friends at obedience is a huge German Shepherd and an even bigger Great Dane.

 

Any ideas? I am so concerned that this experience has traumatised her and she is going to do this from now on which would be awful. I couldn't take her back today because of the weather but I am planning on taking her back tomorrow. I should add also that she was in a really funny mood last night.

 

 

Thanks

Sharon

[mum24dog]

Hi all

 

Any ideas? I am so concerned that this experience has traumatised her and she is going to do this from now on which would be awful. I couldn't take her back today because of the weather but I am planning on taking her back tomorrow. I should add also that she was in a really funny mood last night.

 

 

Thanks

Sharon

 

Don't take her back. At her age she is probably going through a fear period where dogs can start to be scared by things that they were previously OK with (google for more info) and you need to keep her away from things that worry her for a while.

 

If you start from a very low level introducing her to calm dogs one by one and making each meeting a pleasurable one, building up gradually to more well behaved dogs, her experience may not have a lasting effect but each time it happens the greater the chance that it may stay with her.

[Sekah]

Dogs don't recover from stress immediately. When they experience something stressful or scary their body releases chemicals. Those chemicals linger around the body for several hours/days. They could definitely be a contributor to the "off" behaviour you saw that evening. When the body is under the effect of these chemicals it makes them more likely to lash out since, like us, they're already stressed and therefore less able to cope with new stress that they might otherwise have taken in stride.

 

Give her a few days to calm down and reintroduce the park experience slowly and in a controlled manner if you really want to go back.

[waffles]

I wouldn't walk into a dog park with my dog on a leash. The parks around here have in bold letters on the gates to unleash your dogs before entering the main area and there is good reason for that rule. Think about how stressful it would be to meet so many dogs who are off leash and she is stuck on a short lead with no means to move freely or escape. Plus the owners are typically pulling hard on the leash tightening it and further restricting the dog's movement.

With that said I personally wouldn't take my dog into a park with 30 strange dogs. Sounds stressful for even the most social dog. If you feel you need to use the dog park I would wait until she is older and go at off hours when it isn't so busy and let her off leash before entering.

[Tommy Coyote]

Iwouldn't take a dog to a dog park at all. I think they are really dangerous and a perfect breeding ground for all sorts of diseases.

[GentleLake]

Several things . . .

 

1) BCs often don't appreciate boisterous, in-your-face greetings from other dogs (or kids). It's a good thing to be aware of this and to be on the lookout for dogs who might do this so that you can intervene before it happens.

 

2) 30 dogs in a dog park is a vastly different experience than a handful of dogs, and may be much more overwhelming and/or overstimulating than what she's experienced before.

 

3) As Mum24dog mentioned, she may well be in a fear stage and reacted differently than she has and will when in a more confident stage of her life. However, it's important now to make she she isn't permanently negatively affected by this experience. Make sure she has some good experiences with other dogs soon. Take her to class with the dogs she knows. Maybe try the dog park again when there are only a few dogs, but leave immediately if she reacts badly. Maybe try her outside the fence with lots of delicious treats (that you can't take inside) first. And, yes, she probably should have been off leash from the start.

 

4) You should never have allowed her to overreact for half an hour!! That kind of behavior is self-reinforcing. If and when it ever happens again, get out of Dodge NOW! and follow up immediately with a positive experience.

 

5) Talk to your trainer. She or he should have some good advice for you as well.

 

Good luck. There are always bumps in the road when raising a puppy. Kudos to you for seeking advice before things get out of hand.

[Shazmnldb]

Thanks everyone as always your advice is gold. We might avoid the park for a little while and let her play around with our neighbours dogs which she already knows.

[loggerboots]

Sorry that happened, but Emmie has a weird reaction to a husky that comes to our dog park, too. She doesn't get overly fearful, but she gets overtly respectful and suck-up-ish. She'll flatten herself on the ground and whale eye this dog and roll over, offer her belly, etc. She will not chase this one dog. Emmie's not really a submissive dog at all, but something about this particular dog, this Husky, really makes her feel humbled for some reason. It's weird.

 

I don't know if it's common or not for our dogs to respond to Huskies, or if it's something about this specfic one. This dog is not rude or obnoxious at all, but she's giving off some sort of signal that makes Emmie crumble. We joke that she thinks she's a wolf. Maybe that's true.

 

One other thing, Emmei does enjoy the park more when there're a handful of dogs there vs. lots. She also gets nervous when there're folks using those chuck-it's to throw balls (she has a general fear of sticks or sticklike devices). So, maybe your dog was just overstimulated - or something that you didn't even notice was freaking her out (it took me a while to figure out the chuck it thing).

 

Or maybe she thought it was a wolf.

[Shazmnldb]

Hi Loggerboots, my husband and I said the same thing just last night. A lovely little lady walks her huge Samoyed around our neighbourhood beautiful dog but if Lilli sees her or it she goes crazy. Maybe that's got something to do with it. This poor woman, her dog is nearly as big as she is.

 

My husband took Lilli back to the park yesterday ( I didn't know) and apparently she was a little fearful at first there were only bout 4 dogs then after a short while she apparently joined in the fun. Watch out for Huskies I think.

[Gloria Atwater]

Be very wary of dog parks! Especially with that many dogs out there. Border collies are (or can be) tremendously sensitive to big, bouncy, in-your-face dogs like huskies, boxers, labs, rottweilers, bully breeds, etc. They can be easily traumatized by them and can also develop an life-long aversion to dogs who exhibit this type of behavior. It may not even be breed specific: they just won't like obnoxious, forward dogs.

So, be very careful with her. At her young age, she may be in a fear period - or a trauma like that may send her into one. NEVER let her continue in a state of "freak out" like that. If she reacts like that to any dog or situation, remove her. Instantly. Do not let it linger, because you don't know what behaviors may be solidifying in her mind.

Always remember. Border collies want their space. Dogs who bound up in their face may look happy and friendly to you, but to your dog, they may look like Godzilla on a rampage. Don't try to "fix" that. Instead, respect her need to not deal with obnoxiously friendly dogs. It's your job to protect her from overwhelming situations and dogs that she can't handle.

Glad her later park visit went well, but please impress on hubby to be careful. Too many dogs or overly-invasive dogs are too much for her and could do her lasting harm. Best of luck!

Gloria

[Joe Anne]

As Mom of 2 BC's ....Phoenix 9 y/o and our new puppy Rose 5 1/2 months..as well as being a Dog Trainer...I have very mixed feelings about Dog parks period. I never take my dogs. Too many issues coming together with dog personalities, sizes, excitement levels, lack of training or good recalls, ages, disease potential and then probably the biggest of all the PEOPLE in the mix!

 

Too many "owners", not paying attention to their dog and or the children they bring with them, as well as owners who think it is ok for their dog to bully other dogs and will tell you so! I feel it is safer to have my dogs get friendly with either neighbor, family or class dogs and cultivate those doggy relationships.

My first question would be ....is she spayed? If not she could be about to go in heat which MAY, account for "odd" behavior at home....not at the dog park necessarily.

 

I agree with much of what is being said here, including taking a dog into not only a very large group of dogs but with yours on leash. dogs on leash are always more on alert than when off.

 

I have been volunteering at a local pet store supervising puppy play time and taking my puppy of course. As others have said I am observing a constant behavior pattern with my 5 mo. old pup . She REALLY has a problem with dogs she does not know, bounding up to her and getting right in to her face. It does not seem to matter what size or breed. Someone had a wee little pup, smaller than my Rose do that very thing and she showed major teeth and snapped! She does fine when dogs , adult or puppy big or small greet her calmly.

Gloria put it perfectly! BC's do not like their space invaded PERIOD! I have noticed the same thing with my 9 y/o as well. That space invasion can be by dog or human. That was VERY well put Gloria, indeed! Watching my puppy is teaching me a lot , as well, that it is definitely approach more than size or breed!

I would be VERY cautious about the dog park, and especially if there are a lot of dogs present.

[Gloria Atwater]

Glad to be of service.

[BangBang]

Dog parks... the lazy persons way to entertain their dog. You have a Border Collie... go out and do something with him yourself!

[puppytoes]

Dog parks... the lazy persons way to entertain their dog. You have a Border Collie... go out and do something with him yourself!

 

Wow, was that really necessary? You never know a person's situation. First of all, I think that if a dog enjoys the company of other dogs, there is no reason that dog park visits can't be part of a border collie owners repertoire (if the park is usually frequented by reasonably well behaved dogs and people). Not everyone can devote all their time and energy to their dog. I think constructive suggestions are far more useful that snide remarks. Just my two cents.

[MrSnappy]

I'm in the camp of people who doesn't understand the hate-on for dog parks. I now have acreage and have no need to go to the dog park on a regular basis (and as such my dogs' socializing abilities have declined sharply, I notice) but for many years off leash parks were the only option for exercising my dogs. We frequented them pretty much daily, with only intermittent and infrequent problems. And I *did* things with my dogs whilst we went - in fact, I miss swimming my dogs daily and the local dog beach, I miss watching Mr. Woo make friends with other dogs and hunt for smelt and I miss seeing my friends and their dogs I knew well. Some of my best friends were made at the local dog parks, since that's where I saw them every day. For ten years they were our outing staple, and it was almost never a nightmare of an experience. I sometimes wish I still lived closed enough to them to visit.

 

RDM

[Jescano]

"Dog parks... the lazy persons way to entertain their dog. You have a Border Collie... go out and do something with him yourself!"

Wow, was that really necessary? You never know a person's situation. First of all, I think that if a dog enjoys the company of other dogs, there is no reason that dog park visits can't be part of a border collie owners repertoire (if the park is usually frequented by reasonably well behaved dogs and people). Not everyone can devote all their time and energy to their dog. I think constructive suggestions are far more useful that snide remarks. Just my two cents.

I agree, what if a dog park is the only open place a person can let their dog off leash freely? The dog park I went to used to have a few border collies that went and they didn't necessarily play with the other dogs but their owners played fetch with them while they were there. Another one of them the owner pointed in a direction and the dog would spring that way until the owner told him to switch directions, and they would play frisbee as well. It's not the "lazy person way" and that was quite rude. You don't know what people do with their dogs or not, there. I personally interact with my dogs a lot at the dog park and they love going, if they wander off they always check back with me and they both have great recalls. My poodle mix loves playing with certain dogs that go there and having the freedom to run a couple hundred yards without being stopped. My chow ignores other dogs but loves sniffing and walking around. Jinx is too young right now but I'm sure he'll love being able to play off leash with other certain dogs and being able to play long games of fetch and frisbee, I have a big yard at home(not where i'm currently living now) but it's definitely not 2-3 football fields long and her dog friends aren't there. Most of the people at the park I go to are regulars who are there literally every day with the same dogs and the dogs definitely have their doggy friends and their doggy enemies. We all know each others dogs and how they interact(I think I know more dog names than people names It's also quite funny when I recognize a dog out in public but the wrong person is walking them(like an SO) and you're like "Hey, it's Pongo! But who are you, and why do you have this dog?").

 

It all depends on the owner. I personally don't think that the people who just come into the park and let their dogs off and then sit down and ignore the dog for an hour while they're there should not be there. They are lazy and they should do something/interact with their dog, or at least be more vigilant. There is a dog at my park, Lucky a kelpie, his male owner comes into the park and sits on one side and talks on his phone to work and completely ignores him for about an hour. Lucky is a very happy go lucky dog though and gets along with everyone, however when the wife brings him she follows him around and doesn't like the way he plays(he plays perfectly fine she doesn't seem to understand dogs though) so she's constantly yelling at him and he doesn't have any fun at all.

 

My poodles best friend(they LOVE each other, they can literally lay together and share a marrow bone) is an intact male husky(since he's intact his owner is always very vigilant and within 20-30 feet of him). If there were two dogs i could trust together entirely its them. They've known each other for about a year and a half now and I'm actually really good friends with the owner now, too. They are quite exclusive about their friendship and playing when playing with each other though at the park, other dogs just don't play the same. Their favorites are chase(kai the husky will chase peanut the poodle) around the park a few times(and it's a BIG park) and then they'll get some water and wrestle(which involves peanut grabbing onto the fur on the sides of his face/neck and pulling him and he loves it) and then chase some more.

 

I get that dog parks aren't for everyone, but I don't think you can judge an owner for taking their dog there when you don't know the situation.

[highway61]

I'm in the same camp MrSnappy. I live in the 'burbs and am fortunate to have a dog park close by (its a bit of hike but can walk to it easily). We've been going there for about 7+ years and haven't had an incident yet. But I do hear numerous horror stories from others so that's always sitting in the back of my mind. Like every time I go, will this be the time? Right now I've got a 9 yr old (whose been going there most of his life) and a 5 1/2 month that is new to socializing as well as everything else. The pup is always happy there and is coming along. He's a bit timid at first when meeting the other dogs and will submit. I watch him watch other dogs playing, running together and you can just tell he wants so badly to join in with them but is not yet confident enough. But I'm sure he will be soon enough.

 

I remember once reading something about dogs parks the Dog Whisperer wrote. He advised that if you have a high energy dog that you NEVER take it right in to the park unless you've spent some/most of his energy prior. Like fetch, frisbie, chase, whatever you dog likes to do. THEN walk him in to the park but not before to avoid those over anxious, uncomfortable greetings.

[rushdoggie]

I think it can also depend on the park and the culture in your area.

 

I have lived some places where the dog parks were very small, with a lot of dogs crowded close together and they tended to form "gangs" and some dogs would get picked on. I went to a Dog Beach in CA and it scared the crap outta me, we took a BC and my old Golden who loved the ocean and they were chased, body checked and face to face challenged by more than one of very out of control dog with clueless owners. Needless to say we never went back. It seemed very stressful for many dogs. There's also the dog owner who just lets their dog off lead then sits around yapping on the phone or reading a book and paying zero attention to their dog.

 

Around here we have a few that are very large and dogs can run and not be in each other's faces and also have a designated small dog area. They are fairly well policed by the humans and owners not paying attention are usually asked to watch their dogs.