Obsessive-Compulsive circling

[agilebrainz]

Hi all,

 

I recently adopted a rescue BC that basically spent the first 3.5 years of her life in solitary confinement, so is very new to the world-at-large. I was told she had some obsessive-compulsive traits, like being driven nuts by ceiling fans, windshield wipers, and flashlights. I keep her busy so have not seen a lot of this. In fact she is sleeping under a ceiling fan right now. However what I do see and am worried about is compulsive herding behavior. Circling,

circling, circling, (circling!)

 

I have been working on recalls daily with this dog, who is extremely UNbiddable by BC standards, and have progressed as far as working recalls under mild distractions. We do this up and down the property daily. Yesterday her recall failed and I soon found her down the road compulsively circling the neighbor's horse. The horse could not have cared less (thank god) so I just stood there watching, and it quickly became clear that the dog was mentally 'stuck'. She probabaly would

have circled herself to death if I had not been smart enough to guess where she'd go and find her. I have also seen her do this with other

dogs, but oddly not smaller dogs. Mostly other herding breeds. The dogs at least will correct her and back her off. For a moment, that is. Then its back to circling. She is driving my other BC crazy.

 

Now I'm not all that concerned about the failed recall. We have a lot of work yet to do. What I am concerned about is the way she got mentally 'stuck'. I don't doubt that it is another symptom of that obsessive-compulsive tendancy, and would like to hear from people who

have experience with this sort of thing. Is it a trait as hard-wired as blue eyes, or can it be trained out? If so what worked for you? I

have hopes of this girl becoming an agility dog, so a 99.9% reliable recall under any circumstances is a must, as is the ability to leave other dogs alone and not try to cirle them, compulsively or otherwise.

 

Thanks for any advice!

[Jade n Ty]

I know exactly what you mean by that, my 14 week old BC pup does exactly the same with anything that moves in the garden. The other day the wind was blowing a football around and he spent nearly an hour circling it, he just wasn't interested in anything but the ball!

I'm glad he's not the only one, hopefully someone will reply who has had experience with this and knows whether or not it is just 'one of those things' and is to do with the breed or(fingers crossed) has worked out a way to stop it.

Poor thing I feel sorry for him, I don't understand how he managed to walk straight when I took the ball away and decided enough was enough! He never took his eyes off it the whole time I swear!

[2 Devils]

The dog was probably allowed to create her own games and now, the game is walking in circles plus the other OCD things.

 

I would stop the dog from doing it-PERIOD. It is cute but by allowing it, you are re-enforcing the undesireable behavior. When the dog starts, take them away from the situation. Start making the dog pay attention to you.

 

Dogs don't really grow out of their OCD tendancies, you have to help them manage them...been there done it, it will help.

[Lucy Goosey]

Here is an article that you might find helpful:

 

http://www.vetshow.com/friskies/comp.htm

[juliepoudrier]

I own an obsessive circler. He doesn't necessarily circle *things,* though he will do that too. I have several circular "tracks" in the yard because of this dog, some "freestanding" and some around objects like the shed.

 

He already exhibited the behavior when I adopted him at 18 months. It's likely that started circling because he was left alone and unstimulated in a yard after the death of his owner. In fact, the owner's wife told me that when she went to feed the dog he would "show her how he likes to run." Sadly she didn't have a clue that the running (circling) was a result of his living conditions (that is, a sign of the stress he was feeling because of the change in his circumstances caused by the death of his owner). Now I think he probably gets some sort of runner's high when he circles.

 

Anyway, once I brought him hoome I did not allow him in the yard unusupervised. When he went out, I went out with a ball and threw it for him. And yet, if I paused for 10 seconds (say to walk to where the ball was dropped) he would immediately start circling, even though he loves fetching. That is, in even the briefest moments, if I wasn't distracting him, he would go into default circle mode. When he's circling, you can get his attention and make him stop, but the minute you turn away, he will start up again. Interestingly, if he is tied on a long line, he will not circle, even though he could. If you let him drag a leash, he will delay his circling (probably only till he figures out he's not really tied, and then he'll start circling and dragging the leash along). I tried correcting him in addition to the distraction, but I was never able to break him of the behavior. (There is no point in using corrections unless you can correct every time the dog exhibits the behavior and always at the onset of that behavior. Otherwise you just confuse the dog and add to his stress. For this reason, I didn't try corrections for very long--ultimately I found that I couldn't watch him constantly and then correct in the appropriate manner). I did have someone tell me that she thought she could put a circle command on the dog and then of course the dog will supposedly circle only when commanded to do so, but I did not pursue that (mainly because I think that would work better if I knew of specific triggers for the unwanted behavior).

 

This is not to say he does it *all* the time. I know he has stayed at a friend's house and not circled until he became excited when I showed up (then again he has also circled while at this friend's house when I wasn't there, but he didn't circle constantly while I was gone). He also circles in the house, but I don't think he does any circling when I'm at work during the day (he most likely just sleeps).

 

I have had this dog for three years now. I am now in the process of researching with my vet potential drug therapies. I've always considered drug therapy to be a last resort, but I wonder if I shouldn't have considered it earlier. My dog has now begun to chew his front legs (I don't see him doing this often, but the pinkish color that has developed on his white legs says to me that he is obviously spending enough time licking/chewing to stain his coat).

 

I've had people ask me if he's hurting himself or anything else with his circling--the point being if he's not harming anything (except the grass I suppose), then maybe I should just live with it. And ultimately that may be what I will do. But it concerns me that he may start new obsessive behaviors.

 

This dog is very inbred as well, so I suppose it's possible that some of his tendency toward OCD is genetically based.

 

So I don't have any great answers for you, but I think I would be aggressive in trying to correct the behavior now, using whatever method (or combination of methods) works.

 

Especially with the pup--do not tolerate it. I think that obsessions are like phobias--they are likely to only get worse as time goes on. What may be cute in a pup can become a real pain in an adult dog.

 

I know this probably hasn't been a great amount of help, but at least you know you are not alone. It probably is possible to stop the obsessive behavior, but it may take a lot of time and effort on your part.

 

J.

[Barb Scott]

My ten and one half year old BC has compulsively circled his 9 year old brother (same parents, different litters)ever since I married his brother's owner 8 years ago. He does not circle any of our other BCs, just Blaze. It doesn't seem to bother Blaze so we never did anything to stop the behavior.

Barb S

[2 Devils]

Julie,

 

Are you sure that your dog is actually chewing its legs?

 

My bc/mix has discolored white hair on her legs but it is because she chews her bones so furociously. She gets both legs soaking wet and they turn pink...She is doing so as I write this. She is a big time bone chewer...

 

It is just a thought.

[Celeste McFarlane]

Julie,

 

Are you sure that your dog is actually chewing its legs?

 

My bc/mix has discolored white hair on her legs but it is because she chews her bones so furociously. She gets both legs soaking wet and they turn pink...She is doing so as I write this. She is a big time bone chewer...

 

It is just a thought.

True. Leo also gets discolouration on his front legs due to chewing the bones.. it always washes of in the bath though, or wears off fairly quickly.

[juliepoudrier]

The discoloration is up at the top of his leg, not down lower where he would hold a cow hoof (that's what they get to chew). On top of that I have observed the actual chewing--it just hasn't escalated to a constant thing yet (at least he doesn't do it a lot when I'm around because I make him stop, but he could be doing it all day while I'm at work for all I know). Plus it's a recent thing (last month or so) and the chew hooves have always been available.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Barb,

I think different people have different defintions of compulsive behavior as well. Does your dog circle Blaze to the exclusion of everything else? If it's just something he does, maybe even daily, but not constantly then it may not be a true compulsive behavior, by my definition anyway. Farleigh circles no matter what. It is very difficult to distract him when he's circling--it's almost as if he lives to circle. Nothing changes his behavior (that is, if it's pouring rain and the place he's chosen to circle--his track--is underwater, well, by golly he's still gonna circle there even if he turns into an unrecognzable mud pie). Okay, but if it's thundering (he's thunder-phobic also) he doesn't circle then.... Bring him inside and he'll circle the kitchen table or circle in the living room. Asking him to stop (by giving a lie down or whatever) works momentarily, but the minute you turn your back he's up and circling again. It really seems that the only time he's not circling is if he's eating or sleeping. Even on long walks he'll run with the other dogs, but then if he gets far enough ahead of me, he'll start to circle till I can catch up and call him to me. We're talking extreme obsessive behavior here. Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument, but I think probably many border collies have compulsive tendencies, but not all of those behaviors/tendencies turn into true compulsive behaviors. Farleigh is at one end of the spectrum--if he fell somewhere in the middle I probably wouldn't worry about it so much, but he really does seem to want to run circles more than anything else (except maybe eat). If I had had him when he was young and first started the behavior I might have had better luck stopping it, but now it seems so ingrained that I don't know if it can be stopped (though I'm still trying). That's why I gave a warning about behaviors that may be cute in a puppy--if it looks at all like it could be or become a compulsive behavior, don't allow it. One of my cats loves to play with the laser pointers. I recently discovered that my young dog is also attracted to the laser pointer. While allowing her to chase the pointer may seem like harmless fun, I can just imagine a dog that spends most or all of its time chasing any sort of flash of light. So I don't bring the pointer out of the young dog is around. No sense in encouraging something I might regret later....

 

J.

[Barb Scott]

Julie, I think Skye is probably middle ground compulsive in his Blaze circling. He goes so far as to climb on the furniture to do his circling if Blaze is on the floor close to it or jump over another dog who is sleeping in his circling path, but he'd never circle Blaze if we were playing frisbee or doing agility. Just when there's nothing better going on... Barb

[juliepoudrier]

Originally posted by Barb Scott:

but he'd never circle Blaze if we were playing frisbee or doing agility. Just when there's nothing better going on...

Do you mean that other than when you're playing or doing agility Skye is circling Blaze? Or does he just do it sometimes? The former to me would definitely be obsessive behavior in need of some sort of intervention on your part. If it's the latter, then I too would consider it harmless and let it go.

 

J.

[Barb Scott]

During his waking hours, whenever there's nothing more interesting to focus on, Skye circles Blaze. Since he's been doing it for at least 8 years, there's not much point in intervening, although I would have stopped him long ago if I had realized he was developing a life-long habit. Skye was diagnosed with a thyroid problem 4 years ago and I'm pretty sure all the circling kept him in shape while he was being misdiagnosed; he didn't want to jump or chase frisbees, but he never stopped his roadwork around Blaze!

Barb S