Suddenly resisting crate

[maggiesmommy]

My 11-month-old BC was good about going to her crate every time I said "crate time" until recently. In the last month and a half, I've managed to get her completely house trained, and for the first couple of weeks that meant more crate time than average. She for the most part still enjoyed her crate and would go there for "fun"/denning without being told to. For the last two-ish weeks, she's only been put in her crate at night time and during the rare times when I have to leave her home alone.

For some reason, she is suddenly trying to avoid her crate entirely. I think it's because of separation anxiety, because she knows that the crate means that she's either going to bed or that she's about to be home alone. When I say, "Crate time," she now puts her tail between her legs, flattens her ears, and runs away. It's very, very hard to get her to finally go to the crate, even though it's full of bones and toys, and she gets a treat every time she follows the "crate time" command.

...So, doggers, can anyone help? Why would she suddenly develop new anxieties about her crate, especially since she's now in it *less* than before? And what's the best way to handle her trying to hide when I give her the command to go to her crate?

[GentleLake]

Go back to the early steps of crate training. Throw some especially yummy treats in and let her come right back out if she wants to. Do this over and over for a day or two. The do the same thing and close the door for just a minute, then let her out. Then a couple minutes while you walk away, but come back fairly quickly and let her out. Then half an hour, then an hour, maybe over 4-5 days By then she should realize that you'll always come back.

 

Congratulations on the house training! It was pretty quick once you really settled down to do it. Awesome!

[maggiesmommy]

Thanks!

[GentleLake]

Oh. Feed her in her crate for a while, too. Just slip it into the re-crate training routine. Door open at first, then closed.

[maggiesmommy]

Good plan! Thank you!!

[Tommy Coyote]

My dogs all like their crates. I feed them there.

 

The big dogs also like to sleep there even tho the doors are always open. I only crate the big dogs now when there are storms around. Or when I need to get them out of the way for a while.

 

The puppy has to stay up whenever I'm not home. He would get into everything and hurt himself.

[Shetlander]

This may a stupid question, but did you check to see if there is anything in the crate like vomit or urine that she may be trying to avoid? I don't know what kind of crate you have or if you have bedding, but I have missed things like that before.

[bcnewe2]

All good things come to those in crates. When I'm crate training my dogs, they are in a room where if I'm home I can see them. So I constantly drop treats into the crate while they are in. It's like crates mean treats rain from above!

 

I also feed all puppies in their crates. Door shut but not really latched. They eat, then if they want they push out the door. Make the crate the best place to be and they will quickly learn to love their crates!

 

I don't have as many crates as I do dogs. They are coveted positions of napping! First one it wins the spot!

[maggiesmommy]

This may a stupid question, but did you check to see if there is anything in the crate like vomit or urine that she may be trying to avoid? I don't know what kind of crate you have or if you have bedding, but I have missed things like that before.

 

Not a stupid question! That's something that I can see how an owner could easily overlook. No, there's nothing in her crate that she'd be avoiding. It seems to be clearly related to separation anxiety because she now strongly associates "crate time" with "mommy is about to leave me by myself."

 

I've started feeding her in her crate and "hiding" extra treats in the bedding in her crate... And I'm going to try to spend my next paycheck on a bigger one so it's a little less confining, since she no longer needs it for elimination-training purposes. Thank you for the help.

 

Oh, and also, the crate is in my bedroom, so she can see me when she's crated at night. But she's still anxious about it now. :/

[Shetlander]

 

Oh, and also, the crate is in my bedroom, so she can see me when she's crated at night. But she's still anxious about it now. :/

 

Bummer, but don't let her think you are buying into her angst! My stance is the crate is a wonderful thing. Period. So far, knock wood,my dogs have all fallen in with this company line. And at least 99% of the time, if I send a dog into a crate, I give them a small treat, no matter how old they are. I probably don't need to do that, but I do anyway.

 

Continue feeding her in the crate, putting treats and toys in the crate. Maybe see if you can find opportunities to put her in the crate for short periods of time when you run quick errands or just because. Another thing you can do is play a game of sending her into her crate and giving her a small treat or bits of her dinner. See how far away from the crate you can be when sending her. Be really enthusiastic when you play this super fun "game." Remember, the crate is awonderful thing!!!

 

Hopefully this is just phase that will quickly pass with some intervention on your part. Good luck!

[BCjetta]

My hubby's aussie suddenly became terrified of his plastic crate when he was a little over a year old. He'd always been in it at night but suddenly started cowering and trying to avoid it and even peeing himself when my husband would pick him up to put him in it. I had a smaller size plastic one in my vehicle which he didn't have the same issues about. I think its because hubby got mad at him once for doing something bad and punished him by putting him in the crate. We changed to an x-pen during the day and a metal crate 1 size bigger than the plastic one at night and he was fine with those two.

He's 8 now and is still very hesitant to go into a plastic crate that is just sitting in the house, and still fine jumping up into it in the car. Some dogs are just very sensitive to things.

[maggiesmommy]

My hubby's aussie suddenly became terrified of his plastic crate when he was a little over a year old. He'd always been in it at night but suddenly started cowering and trying to avoid it and even peeing himself when my husband would pick him up to put him in it. I had a smaller size plastic one in my vehicle which he didn't have the same issues about. I think its because hubby got mad at him once for doing something bad and punished him by putting him in the crate. We changed to an x-pen during the day and a metal crate 1 size bigger than the plastic one at night and he was fine with those two.

He's 8 now and is still very hesitant to go into a plastic crate that is just sitting in the house, and still fine jumping up into it in the car. Some dogs are just very sensitive to things.

 

 

Huh. I wonder if it's an age thing. Maggie has leaked a little urine a few times when I've pushed/leash-pulled her to the crate (I'm too weak to carry her). I think the much-larger crate might be in order. She might have negative associations with this one that she wouldn't have with another crate, especially if it were a different size or style.

[SoFreshSoClean]

Thumbs up on all the suggestions.

 

I'd make sure it's nce and roomy for her since she's potty trained and give the bedding in there a wash just in case there's some vomit or pee.

 

Then play all those crate games. Toss treats in when you walk by and let her discover them. Feed in there. All those good association games.

 

Would she prefer to learn how to sleep loose? or on a tie-down in that space?

[maggiesmommy]

Thumbs up on all the suggestions.

 

I'd make sure it's nce and roomy for her since she's potty trained and give the bedding in there a wash just in case there's some vomit or pee.

 

Then play all those crate games. Toss treats in when you walk by and let her discover them. Feed in there. All those good association games.

 

Would she prefer to learn how to sleep loose? or on a tie-down in that space?

 

I change the bedding weekly and it's all fresh and clean now but that's not making a difference for her.

 

I might start letting her sleep loose... She's done it a few times but the problem is that she gets REALLY excited about sleeping with me and my partner and wants to roll all over the bed and get in between us, and our bed isn't very big. XD And if she's in another room, she goes nuts with separation anxiety. Maybe I just need to deal with it and let her sleep with her mommies, even if she wants to roll all over the place and wake us up over and over again with kisses and tail wags. ^^

 

That still wouldn't solve the issue of when I have to leave her, though... And I'm not sure how a tie-down works. I know she'd chew through anything but a metal chain... And what do you secure a tie-down to indoors? Furniture? I can see her getting antsy and chewing up either whatever's tethering her or whatever it's attached to.

[bcnewe2]

Get her to go in when you're not leaving. Just to get the treats or while you're in the same room. Its a den. For napping, lounging and then for when you leave but for now a wonderful place. Feed dinner with the door open for now.

I worry a bit that she's already exhibiting separation anxiety. Try having you and your partner leave one at a time whuile the other is making fun times. Never leave without a good stuffed Kong or something else that will occupy her mind as you leave. Leaving needs to mean good snackies.

But don't give into her anxiety. It'll get worse. Do all these things with an upbeat attitude not a poor baby thought in your head.

[rushdoggie]

I did the majority of Susan Garrett's Crate Games with my now 15 month old Papillon puppy when he started balking at the crate and yelling when left crated in the car. It had a HUGE effect and really quick too. I didn't even do it all because I got busy and it really helps.

[BCjetta]

We started letting the aussie sleep loose once I trusted he wouldn't pee and tied him to one of the bed legs so he couldn't sneak away or jump up on the bed...his place is on his bed on the floor on hubby's side of the bed. Once he knew his place we took away the leash. My old dog died this past spring and she had always slept on the floor on my side so just recently I've started letting my young one (2yr old) sleep in that spot (again tied so she doesn't sneak away or pester the aussie).

The getting excited thing if she's on the bed should go away. Both the aussie and my young border collie were like that at first and when they were probably less than about 2. Now if we invite either up on the bed they will just jump up and lay down as opposed to being excited and pestering us. With the border I did have to get after her a bit and tell her no, lie down, and push her farther away from the head of the bed to where I wanted her to stay a few times.

 

It is a bit worrisome that she gets upset even if you're home and go into another room. Mine are all fine if I leave the room they are in, however given the choice they follow me everywhere.

[maggiesmommy]

She's an abuse/neglect survivor so her level of separation anxiety doesn't surprise me.

[Shetlander]

Did the separation anxiety just start? Has she always fussed in the crate when you are home?

[GentleLake]

I think the developing -- or increasing -- separation anxiety (if that's what it is) is probably more worrisome than just the crate resistance at this point. In fact, it sounds like the crate issue might be a symptom of the SA.

 

If that's the case, I think you'd be well advised to start seriously working on the SA issues, helping her to develop confidence that it's OK to be alone and that you'll always return. Like the other stuff, you do this in small steps. You have a baby gate now. Put her in a room, leave her there for just a moment and come back. Walk out your front door for a minute and come right back in. Increase the length of time gradually for both exercises and do it many times a day.

 

Do not make any kind of fuss either when you're leaving or coming back in the house or room. Everything calm and quiet. When you came back you can say, "Hi, Maggie. Good Girl." But keep it low key. When I leave my house I usually don't even acknowledge the dogs at all; I just walk out. If I do anything at all, it might be to say something like "Watch the house.", which tells them that I'm not just going out to pick up the mail. I rarely acknowledge them, when I come in because it gets them too riled up if I do,and I don't want 3 dogs jumping all over me.

 

There are lots of internet resources for working with separation anxiety. Check some of them out. But I really do think this is something you should start doing right away. It'll be much harder to deal with if it gets any worse.

 

Oh -- and not saying you do this, but if you are, beware . . . I understand Maggie had a pretty rough start to life and you feel badly about it. But don't coddle her and let her get away with stuff now because you feel sorry for her. She's got a great life now and you need to have -- and enforce -- reasonable expectations for her. Of course you need to teach her what the rules are and that she's safe, but cooing and oohing and treating her like a baby when she's will just increase her insecurity when you want to be doing just the opposite. That's one of the best bits of advice that Cesar Millan has given in between all the crap stuff he advocates.

[GentleLake]

Another thing that would be helpful would be to give her a frozen stuffed Kong or a food dispensing toy of some kind, or maybe a favorite long lasting chew treat (bully stick, hoof, etc.) that she only gets when you leave as a special treat to keep her occupied . . . and also to pair with your leaving to make it a positive association. If she's occupied with something special like that, she's less likely to be so worried that you're not there.

[urge to herd]

She's an abuse/neglect survivor so her level of separation anxiety doesn't surprise me.

 

My departed Shoshone was badly treated. She had no, nada, zip separation anxiety. She had her quirks, but being left by herself was not an issue. I say this not to downplay your girl's issues, but to point out that dogs come with some tendencies implanted, like a tendency to anxiety or friendliness or whatever. There is at least as much nature, perhaps more, as nurture in a lot of behavioral issues.

 

Please take GentleLake's advice to heart. Cooing and fussing over a dog with anxiety, (or a human!) makes it worse. The cooing becomes a cue for "OHNOshe'sgoingtoleavemeagainohnoohno" which is exactly what you don't want.

 

You can check out "I'll Be Home Soon", available at DogWise, might even be downloadable now. It's a step-by-step explanation of making leaving/arrivals very calm and matter-of-fact. That is what you want, the humans coming and going is no big deal.

 

Good luck with this stuff. You've received a lot of excellent advice. Whatever you do, be consistent and low-keyed. That will do a lot for you and your girl.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[bcnewe2]

I didn't' know she had that past. Do you know that for sure or did a rescue place just tell you that without conformation? Not bashing anybody's rescue or you. Just asking because you'd be surprised how many people think their rescue dog was abused by their actions but it isn't the way it goes.

 

IT's easy to see these sensitive dogs as abuse victims but not always the case. If you coddle that notion it will come off as worry to your dog.

 

Did you post somewhere else about her past and your beginning with her that you could refer me to? I don't remember reading about her but I don't get a chance to read the whole boards.

 

If it's truly SA then the crate is not really the issue it's leaving....So I'd be reading up on how to deal with that then worry about the crate later.

[maggiesmommy]

I volunteer at the shelter where she was surrendered. She was skin and bones and most of her fur had fallen out from malnutrition and anxiety-related fur-pulling. So, yeah, I know her background. I did post about her past and how I got her here: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35317

She's always had SA but for some reason she found the crate comforting enough that it more or less overrode it. She would still whine and whimper a little, but she'd get over it soon. I think that the combination of familiarity and denning instinct for some reason helped to calm her down. The SA itself hasn't really gotten better or worse over time-- she's always freaked out if I've so much as left her inside while I went to check the mail, unless she was in her crate. I don't think it's new or worsening SA; I think that the crate for some reason isn't a source of reassurance to her. I've never coddled or cooed to her when she's been anxious. It's always just been a matter-of-fact, "Mommy is here." or "I'll be home soon."

She does have a kong ball in her crate and that does keep her occupied when she's in it. She's also got a puzzle-toy full of peanut butter that she loves. But right now she would rather take them out of the crate and then nom on them somewhere else.

Now that she's potty trained and respects baby gates, I'll start leaving her on the *other* side of the gate when I'm in my office working and see if that helps over time.

I know I probably should have done more to stop the SA from the beginning, but since the crate was so reassuring and since I chalked it all up to her past, I figured she'd just outgrow it in time or just always be my velcro-pup. :/

[BCjetta]

Is it possible something scared her when she was in the crate to create a bad association with it? For example I have an SUV and the dogs have to jump up into the crates in the back. Hubby's aussie isn't overly confident with jumping and has to really think about it before he jumps. One time he misjudged and his back legs didn't get high enough so he fell back out. I was on his right side holding the door of the crate open. For the next several weeks he absolutely would not jump in the car if I was on the right side of him because for some reason he associated my position with falling. If I switched to his left side he would jump in as normal. Maybe she heard a loud noise etc while she was in the crate to cause her to lose that comfort she felt in it?