Husbands who don't understand...

[JaderBug]

I have been training my Border Collies on sheep for about five years- I just competed in my first USBCHA trial (novice) this past weekend and am even more hooked now than I was before the trial. I have great big dreams and ambitions when it comes to sheepdog training and trialling, I have no intention of slowing down. I want to succeed, do well, and learn as much as I possibly can, I've never been so driven about anything like this in my life.

 

Had a conversation with my husband the other day that kind of surprised me- he is (firmly) under the impression that we will only have two dogs. At a time. Ever. He has said in the past that he doesn't understand why I'm doing all this, but that we both have our hobbies and this happens to be mine. We currently have two dogs, 5 and 2, so in his eyes, I would not be able to get another pup for at least 10 years, when one of them dies.

 

Given my hopeful aspirations in this sport, the thought of being limited to two dogs is devastating/unacceptable. I cannot progress with learning or training if I am limited to a certain number of dogs (within reason- I don't want a big pack or anything like that). I thought I had made it perfectly clear that should I ever breed a bitch, I would only be doing so to keep a resulting pup, I thought he was understanding this.

 

I didn't think this would be a road I would be crossing for at least another couple years, I figured I would deal with it then. As it happens, I may have access to an impeccably bred pup this fall/winter, and I can't help but feel this would be a tremendous opportunity to progress my skills.

 

Even if the pup doesn't work out, I am going to have to deal with this misunderstanding sooner or later. That being said, has anyone else dealt with a husband or been in a similar situation to this? How did you handle it? Is this situation a good candidate for "better to ask forgiveness than permission"? How do I communicate to him how important this is to me?

I should also add: the dogs are definitely my thing. Aside from me asking him to very rarely feed them and maybe take them out to potty, he doesn't interact with them at all (aside from sleeping on the couch together, which I don't count). He also believes that adding more dogs will get in the way of having kids (probably in the next couple years) and that I wouldn't have time for children- which is a very flawed thought. He also has a bunch of other bogus reasons for not adding any more dogs.

 

Has anyone had any situations like this, with someone trying to stifle your muse?

[Gloria Atwater]

Fortunately my husband is supportive, but if you do honestly plan to have children in the next couple years, I might advise waiting a bit on your next dog. Otherwise, that pup could come of age to start training right when you're up to your eyeballs in lost sleep and baby care.

Of course there are plenty of people who juggle border collies and babies and do just fine. Many of them are undoubtedly on these boards. But I would think that training and trialing 3 dogs, plus having an infant/toddler could be rather a handful for those first while. Perhaps wait a little, if family planning IS in the works? Because time might also work a little magic on your husband, especially when you start doing well and progressing further with your current dogs. My hubby was sold the first time I placed in a local farm trial: whoa, wait, my wife can DO something with this stuff?

Sorry I'm no real help! I'm sure others will have much more useful advise. Best of luck!

~ Gloria

[mbc1963]

I agree with Gloria: if you're planning on having kids soon, maybe hold off on another dog.

 

Many people successfully juggle dogs and babies - but a LOT of people give up their hobbies and outside interests for a while when their kids are very small. Children are a huge lifestyle-changer, and people frequently underestimate how much their lives are going to change when they have kids.

 

Sheepdog people can answer the question: how many are able to be fully committed with small children?

 

Mary

[Tommy Coyote]

Time to ditch the husband. And then get more dogs. But really, you usually can do something even tho its difficult if it is what you really want to do.

 

It's important to make time for the things you love.

[mum24dog]

Don't do as I did and rush it otherwise you will probably end up with a lot of ageing dogs and still be desperate for another as I am atm so I can continue with what is now a major part of my life.

 

My husband doesn't like dogs and both my daughter and I compete in agility. The argument I used with him was to ask why what he doesn't want should carry more weight than what I do want. He gave in and we ended up with 5 dogs but it hasn't really made for a particularly happy home because I'm on edge trying to keep the dogs from bothering him. I feel for him because he finds having so many dogs stressful.

 

But I need another dog as we only have one competing 7 year old between my daughter and myself now - I also have 2 10 year olds and a 13 year old, all of which are fit and healthy. I am reaping the result of getting over enthusiastic early on.

 

If it were just me my ideal would have been to space dogs out around 5 years apart - 1 coming up to retirement, 1 in its prime and 1 to bring on.

 

Another point to make is that the 2 10 year olds have never really been agility dogs because they don't like it, so be prepared for dogs not to live up to your expectations.

 

I agree with Gloria that if you are planning a family you should consider waiting to get another dog. Until you have a baby you won't know how much it will impact on your life and how much your priorities will change.

 

You are young enough to be patient, unlike me. At 62 I can't afford to wait too long to get another dog for a sport that needs me to be fit and active, or even alive.

 

I see dogs that I'd love to take home all the time but have to pass on them. You can be sure that there will be another "impeccably bred pup" for you in the future.

[alligande]

I can't give you any advice about the children aspect, but I did manage to get my husband on board with the plan to get a third dog when my current dog would be 7 and our older dog 12, so I could start training a puppy while the younger one was still competive in agility. My husband loves and is actively involved with our dogs but strictly as a friend, he does not train but it took some very gradual and gentle logic to get to that point, but I do think 3 would be the maximum. We do foster occasionally and so having 3 dogs is not unusual I think this is what made him realize it was very doabable, not ideal but if one was elderly then possible.

Sadly this plan was axed by the loss of Brody at 81/2 so now we only have one dog and I am not ready to start training a puppy, I still have a long way to go with my 4 year old!!

[JaderBug]

But I would think that training and trialing 3 dogs, plus having an infant/toddler could be rather a handful for those first while.

 

I think I would probably drop off my older dog from trialling and she would mainly be a chore dog, I just don't think she has the potential to do well in USBCHA venues. Two dogs training and trialling I think would probably be more do-able with young kids.

 

 

 

Many people successfully juggle dogs and babies - but a LOT of people give up their hobbies and outside interests for a while when their kids are very small. Children are a huge lifestyle-changer, and people frequently underestimate how much their lives are going to change when they have kids.

 

This terrifies me and always has when thinking about kids. I've not been around small children very much and I'm sure I'm being irrational and ignorant about how things will actually be, but I've always been so terrified of losing my identity, who I am, and the things I love to do when kids are in the picture. They are still a couple years away... hopefully this isn't as selfish as it sounds but I don't want to completely stop my life, hobbies, and passions for the next 5-10 years. Maybe it won't be like that, hell if I know. I'm sure if I work hard enough at both and give up some other less important things, it'll work out fine...

 

I guess my main question in my original post (kind of got sidetracked in regards to kids) is how do I convey to DH how important all of this is to me and how I can't progress with only two dogs for the next 10 years? And would you pass up an amazing opportunity to own/train/trial a dog because someone is telling you no or the timing is just a bit off? Kind of a case of "right puppy, wrong time"- is there a wrong time for the right dog?

 

Or am I just out of my mind...

[Smalahundur]

Kind of the same boat here; I have an aging mix (12 year, who thinks he is stil a puppy), my daughter has her little chi/pin mix, and then there is Gláma, the working dog.

 

My wife was "less than enthusiast" about getting another (fourth...) dog. What tipped the scales in favor of the next dog was (sadly) Gláma´s eye problem (pannus). It might not have a too bad prognosis, but it showed that it is not a given that a dog can be used to a ripe old age. I wil never again take part in the annual autumn roundup without a trained bc if I can help it.

 

So there will be a new puppy as a replacement and reserve. I have selected the parents so that the pup will hopefully be stronger in the department I find Gláma lacking (grit).

 

If it hadn´t been for Gláma´s eyes, and the fact that this litter got produced earlier than the breeder originally intended, I think I would have waited another year, I think mom24dog gives very sound advice.

[Gideon's girl]

I have always had a dogcentric life and my kids enjoy joining me in this, but it really isn't always something you can do with a very small child in tow. With both of my kids, I had to slow down for a couple years. That didn't stop me or take away from who I was, but it did add quite a bit. The only problems I see is that there are no guarantees about what kind of kid you will have either. My first one was great, I could put him in a stroller and park him under a shade tree and count on him to nap for 2 hours while I worked and watched at the same time. My daughter, on the other hand, required my full attention for her first 8 months and even more than that for the next year and a half, but it worked out great after that. Some times kids have to take priority and sometimes it has to be Mom to give the kids priority. I can tell you that while you are in the middle of it, you won't think twice about it, that's just the way it is.

 

And on number of dogs, we had 5 for a long time and over time got down to 3(which is the number I prefer) when we lost one of those, so we were down to 2. I started looking for another dog and my husband came to me very surprised, because he thought that 2 was a better number. I told him that no, we were going to have 3 so that when I took 1 away to do something the 1 that was left home wouldn't be left out and alone both(I didn't point out that if we took 2, one would still be home alone). He saw my "point" and didn't even question it when we lost another one and the search was on again. I love my husband!

[toney]

Well, the reality of trialing with young kids (or kid, in my case) made it so I was able to go to no more than maybe four or five trials a year, if I was lucky, with none being terribly far away. Sometimes it was just one or two trials a year. I still actively trained during those years, but leaving for a weekend when it was an eight hour drive to trials, staying for two days, then driving back made child care (and my husband and mother were wonderfully supportive and still are) difficult. Getting time away from work is difficult. Paying for gas/diesel, food and hotel or camper mortgage is difficult as well. This is an expensive hobby! Children also get into their own activities fairly quickly and it's not something you nor they would want to miss out on. As they get older, it gets somewhat easier, but it can be tough. However, I never felt like I had lost my identity during that time period, even though my son's friends called me " Zane's Mom".

 

More tough, I would think, would be the husband who doesn't want more dogs. I'm lucky... my husband just rolls his eyes and pretends he doesn't see a new dog. Like the one who showed up from California recently. He just pretended she had always been here.

[Debbie Meier]

Well, if you really want to move on with a special pup there is the option of rehoming your oldest dog to someone who would appreciate her for what she is, like you do and be able to be their one and only which really is quite special for a dog.

Sharon did that last year, her older dog Jay, which was way too much for her to trial and enjoy found a great home, the people that have him now think that he is the bestest border collie ever. That allowed her to take on a dog that was more suited for her to have fun with, she can only trial now and then due to other life commitments and now is hoping to bring a very special pup into her life.

 

Since you have the number limit set by your husband and plan on starting a family, getting into the habit of letting go of dogs that don't fit your criteria as trial dogs may be a good thing to do. Who knows, if you approach your husband with the decision to let the older dog go to a new home he may just say no and let you have that pup, men can be soft that way.

Life choices can be tough, but each will make us stronger and better and more prepared for our next difficult life choice.

[rushdoggie]

I think to achieve compromise you need to get down to what his real issue is: is it that he wants kids and his main worry is with more dogs you won't? Is it money? Is it a dislike of dog care?

 

Being married is a give and take, and if you can find his real concern you can give some back. So say its the kids. What if you plan on starting your family and then after the kids get a certain age, he lets you have more dogs? Or, if its finances, you can find money elsewhere or promise to save a dog fund or that you will have an X limit of dog activities.

 

Example: I married a guy who likes dogs but has never had more than one and thought it was a little weird that I had 3. His dog worries were cleanliness and money for the most part. Thus, I made our home easily washable (everything is hard, wipable or machine washable) so it doesn't smell, I vacuum all the time and keep the dogs well groomed. He's happy at home, I have 3 or 4 dogs. We also sat down and agreed on a dog activities budget and have a Care Credit and a "maximum amount we will spend to save a dogs life" limit (which I will say, he added to after our finances improved and one of the dogs was sick).

 

If you are otherwise happy, find the middle ground. Having a supportive and loving marriage is more important to me than a lot of other stuff, so I found a way to make know his feeling matter even though teh dogs are a lifestyle and important to me.

[PSmitty]

Ugh. "Get rid of your old dog to make room for a new one". *biting my tongue* or fingers, whatever...

 

Anyway, I agree with those who advised to wait until your family plans are set (or in motion) first. Having a kid WILL change everything. It really will, there's no way it can't. Personally I'd wait a couple years and re-evaluate then.

 

However, since that's not really what you asked, the bottom line is all you can do is sit down and have a heart to heart conversation with your husband. Marriage involves compromise, and you may both have to give a little, but other than working hard to make him understand how much this means to you, you can't exactly force him. (if you want to stay married, at least) Talk about those compromises, and see what you can up with, together. Good luck!

[bcnewe2]

I have one of those husbands who doesn't understand about my passion for dogs. But we are committed to each other so we found ways to make it work.

 

Like you, they are my dogs. I don't ask for help unless I absolutely have to. Then I have an older son who will help also.

 

My DH and I had a chat long ago and came to the conclusion that neither of us would stop the other one from doing something the other was dead set on doing. but that meant both sides. So for a while he collected cars and I collected dogs. His passion has waned a bit as we aged but I would never stop him from getting a car or truck (motorcycle in the last case) that he really wanted. and vice versa. But it would be a heavy conversation first on both parts.

 

It was a partnership agreement that we came to. We discuss everything before we do it. We are both allowed to voice our opinions but in the end if one cannot persuade the other from doing or getting something that they really want we at least know how passionately we feel, in other words I understand when he really doesn't want me to get another dog or whatever it might be that I'm going to do or vice versa and still do it anyway if it is that important. But I also understand where he is coming from first!

It's a partnership thing that works for us. There can be no one person running the show. Not in our marriage at least. We are equal partners so as long as we keep sane and listen to the other guy you are a bit more careful about your choices!

 

I've had up to 6 or so dogs. I found that was to many for me. So I learned what my limits were. We've also had all sorts of cars and trucks, he now knows what his limits are too. Maybe it's a long term partnership thing. Maybe it's we're both so stubborn that neither will give in. But it does work for us.

 

Talking and understanding is the most important part of our long term relationship.

 

If I get a dog that he has said he really does not agree with then I understand what stress I'm adding to our household. But it must mean more to me that that so he understands and tries not to take it personal that I didn't listen to him.

 

I hope that made since. It's all about communication. Both sides have to hear and listen. Don't have to agree but understand it's not a direct insult to the other one for doing it anyways.

 

And....I bet I know what puppy you are talking about....exciting!!

Talk to that lady about what her past was like. She will understand what you are saying, she's been there before. You have to work this out or it could be costly on everybody. Communication is where it's at! Plus she can tell you all about taking young kids to trials! IT's the teenage years that get dicey. that's when they don't want to go with you. Young kids and babies...hard work but can be done!!! I've been doing this for about 17 years. My youngest one is 21. He used to go with me all the time. We didn't travel to far but he played in the dirt, with the dogs and hung out having the time of his life! He's one of the best dog sitters I know!

 

Good luck with working this out. You can do it!

[bcnewe2]

Rushdog posted at the same time I was...she's saying the same thing I was trying to. Yep....your marriage if it's a good one is top but if it's a good one you can work things out and be better for it in the end!

[Murray Momma]

Sounds like your husband and mine need to go out for a beer and relax!

 

That said, we're in exactly the same boat. He didn't want Murray to begin with, and now that we have Hank -- the poor guy is outnumbered. We've agreed to disagree about the dogs. I take the primary training, obedience, vet visit and feeding responsibilities. He will however, pull out the frisbees and chuck-its for the dogs. As much as I'd like to rescue/buy every dog, I have a policy to never have more than my 2 hands can handle. We're not sure on the kids front, but it was my original goal to have the dogs so well versed in obedience that adding a baby would be psuedo-manageable. The baby thing is a whole other can of worms. It's still one of those things that is "maybe someday" with the two of us. Until then, I have my four fur-children (the 2 cats are counted in that total).

 

I'll just stress the importance to be on the same page as a couple with both the fur-kids and babies. From my husband's and my experience, the stress and fights resulting from adding Hank to the mix were not worth it. My only saving grace was that Hank is a lovable 55 lb. Corgi sausage (or as my husband says "a lil smokie") and tires Murray out in 15 minutes of dog-play that only a 10 mile hike would accomplish with him previously. With 2 dogs, they're self-entertained and we do have more "alone" time. Yes, we are having issues with sporatic resource guarding with Hank. Yes, we are working as a team to resolve it (although the husband would just like to give him back... not an option) before the topic of babies rears back up. I wish you all the best with whichever decision you go with. Just be sure to weigh the possible outcomes.

[Lana]

I can not speak to the hubby not on board part. Before we got married i had three dogs. I also owned sheep and had just purchased my own farm with no fences or buildings, and was living there in a 19 foot travel trailer. When we first started to date i told Martin i had three dogs. Most men say 'THREE DOGS!!" Martin said "ohh really what kind?" ooo mommy i knew i had a possible future mate in that one and he builds a great fence and did not think it was nuts to be a single women and buy a farm with nothing on it, so yea i marrried him.

 

I can speak to the having kids and keeping your dream alive. Our son was born 10 months after we got married. At 37 i had to get moving if i wanted two. I have a pic some where of me working dogs at 6 days post c-sect and James in a front pack on my chest. His first trial he was 1 month old. When he was 4 months old we drove across the country to the cattle finals. Women will fight to hold your baby at dog trials and they sleep so well in the truck with the diesel engine on.

 

Our daughter was born 21 months later and things did get much tougher. I would bring trucks for the boy and pack my daughter with me in a pack. I joked that both my kids knew my whistles better than the dogs did. It was a struggle to run 2 dogs and 2 kids, and even more so when you add farm work. I never got that hour zen before a run that i had before and I was always so tired i slept in the truck with the kids at trials. You do not get the social beers with the group after the trial as bed time is 730 and you keep that no matter what. You dont sit and study dogs and BS much in the tent unless the kids are asleep, or the weather is nice and they are playing in the stock water tank. That stock water tank is a wonderful thing on hot day. You nurse, get snacks, chase kids and then somebody says " hey Rolwey you are up next!"

 

You get to be a master at working training time and nap time around each other, and you find out who your friends are when you need somebody to keep an eye on the screaming 6 month old, while the toddler runs off to the sheep pen. Some of my best friends were made during this time and many dont have kids of their own.

 

When Katy was 5 months old i flew alone with her and 2 dogs to Texas for the cattle finals. She was nursing and i was not going to miss a finals. It is amazing how helpful people are when you have a cute kid in a front pack and are struggling with 2 crates. At the trial, once again, the grandmas had a fight over who would watch the baby while i ran.

 

When the kids were 4 and 2 we drove across country for the cattle finals in WY. The weather was very windy and we spent a lot of time in the trailer with the kids. It was a little hellish, but when i went out to run Kell in the finals my son ran up as i went to the field and gave me a good "wuck" kiss. That is a memory i cherish as much as the fact my family was all there the year that Kell won.

 

Now our kids are almost 8 and 10 and we ranch full time. We have been here 6 years and it has been tough to trial as the ranch is so busy and the kids are now into every sport known to man as well as horses.

 

I have trialed much less the past 6 years, but still make it to many. The kids have still gone with me to many trials and this last sheep finals the kids helped set up for a week and my daughter helped in the hospitality tent, while my son helped set sheep the whole trial. Most handlers know my kids and the kids some times sell food at trials as well as help set sheep. The kids just think it is normal to hang out at sheep trials and i am proud of the fact they are willing and able to help.

 

I still struggle with juggling it all and feel guilty if think the dogs are getting too much of my time. I hate to miss any game my kids are in and for the most part i dont. It is a ton of work i wont lie. Packing kids all over IMHO can be very good for the kids. It is very distracting and takes more work, but if you love it you can do it. We are lucky we live in a rural area and when you say the kids are being taken out of school for a trip with mom to a sheep trial the principal says " ohh what a great adventure have fun!" I know some schools try and guilt trip parents, but for us real life is a better teacher some days than school is.

 

I agree a lot of women give up their passion when they have kids, and we are all not in the same place as to money,work and supportive husbands. I try not to judge. Surrond yourself with positive people who will cheer for you, be they dog friends, or not. Dont feel like you have to explain yourself to family and friends who think you are nuts. This is your life not theirs. Smile sweetly and nod your head when they give advice, then go train dogs.

[PSmitty]

You've been blessed for sure, Lana. What a wonderful life for you and your family.

[juliepoudrier]

I was hoping you would post a reply, Lana.

 

Rachel, I have not juggled kids, but I know plenty of folks who did. You can figure out a way to make it work.

 

J.

[Mark Billadeau]

I don't have much to add except you and he need to talk more about your hobby, your desires in this hobby, and his concerns about your hobby.

 

BTW I'm feeling a bit out numbered.

[Smalahundur]

BTW I'm feeling a bit out numbered.

Because you are male? Here is another one

[WildFlower]

Wow. Great post Lana!

 

I have no real advice for you, Rachel - well at least anything additional to add to the great advice already given. I traded in my husband for a BC and a Mini Cooper 5 years ago. Best decision I ever made because I would never be on this adventure into dogs and sheep if I hadn't. As a single gal in my early 30s, I have made a decision that if I meet someone who isn't interested in or at the very least accepts my hobby then it wasn't meant to be.

[Mark Billadeau]

Because you are male? Here is another one

No, because I'm a husband and I understand the obsession

[Smalahundur]

Ah, so your wife also trains stockdogs?

Mine doesn´t, but she is pretty supportive (doesn´t keep her from making fun of me from time to time though)

[emilyfalk]

Well I'm not really one to address the relationship aspect. I dumped my college bf first year of vet school when he pet my cat backwards (tail to head, who does that?!). OTOH I've also been in a relationship with a guy who had the same dog trailing goals as myself, so I've seen both extremes. I'll comment on the dog limit. I currently have 6 dogs, and each time I add another I think I'm at my limit. Mine live inside, 1 is a retired sheepdog, 1 is a pet border collie, and the other 4 are work and trial dogs. Since I am very concerned about getting over-dogged (everyone needs their special time with me, and I am but one person who works a busy job), I get really stressed out about buying puppies. Of my Open dogs, Gabe was purchased as a yearling, Spain as a 5yo, and Liv was raised from a pup. My newest, Lena, was purchased as a yearling, and though I loved puppyhood with Livy, I prefer seeing how the dog is starting to work instead of holding my breath for 6 months to a year waiting to see how the pup gets going. For someone dealing with a dog limit, If you get an older dog it should be 'safer' than taking chances on a pup no matter how good the breeding should be on paper.