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I have considered rescue and have been looking, but I'm afraid of the prospect of "untraining" bad behaviors. I am a novice and want the best chance for success which I feel like a young pup would give me.

 

It's a common and unfortunate misconception that all rescues need to be rehabilitated of problem behaviors. Of course some do, but many, many do not. One of my current dogs is a perfect example. He was about 2 years old when I adopted him. He did need to be house trained, but he was essentially a blank slate. He was easy to train and very quickly became a VGD (Very Good Dog). He started working as a therapy dog 6 months(!) after I adopted him, and became my heart dog sooner than that.

 

OTOH, there's no guarantee that the puppy you choose will end up being any easier. And they don't always turn out to be like you'd expect them to be from observing them in their litters. The last puppy I bought was very calm and rather retiring in her litter. Within a week of bringing her home she became a whirling dervish. :o With training she was also a VGD, but she was also a very busy dog all her life. Not at all what I'd expected when I chose her.

 

So, please, don't dismiss the idea of adopting rather than buying based on a false inpression.

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Gail, I think you might have the wrong view of a rescue... It sounds to me like you are thinking rescue is synonymous with shelter - which is simply not the case. A reputable rescue will work with you, understand your skill level, and help you pick a dog that fits your needs and your abilities. They know their dogs, they work with their dogs and (most) obedience train them. If the dog does something you do not want, you can ask them for support. This is quite starkly contrasted with most shelters - you sign on the line, take it, it's yours. I would strongly suggest at least talking with a few rescues to see what they say... It can't hurt to ask - particularly if you feel yourself a novice.

 

The notion of a puppy being more biddable than an adult is simply not true. In my house right now, I have a 2 year old that I got a month ago - she is the most biddable thing I've ever had. A look and she's understood right from wrong and does right repeatedly after. I also have a 10 month old puppy, which I got at 8 weeks. A look at him and he says, hmmm, thanks for the suggestion, but no. He requires a lot more follow up and consistency to a t -- he does not forgive one misstep. It's partly a product of his age, partly his temperament. By considering an adult dog, you will know more of what you are getting. But there's something to be said for unwrapping a puppy, too.

 

Red Top seems to be well respected around here, but the reason I mention trials is because some working breeders don't maintain an internet presence. They have good dogs and only need to rely on word of mouth. People at trials are quite familiar with the lines they have and can tell you the quirks of the moms, dads, etc. When I got Gret, I spoke with someone that had a full litter sister and gained a huge understanding of her temperament before the purchase -- unfortunately for me, we have the polar opposites of the litter, but I still have the knowledge of her mom and dad and prior generations.

 

Alright, I'm off my soap box, just some things to mull over!

 

Rebecca

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Gail,

 

I've got my 4th BC. Of all of them, there has been only one with serious issues. She still was an awesome pet, and loved, loved, loved to train and to hang out with me. She wasn't affectionate, she only liked male dogs, but she was smart as a whip. Once I could figure out what I wanted from her and 'explain' it to her, she never forgot a trick or cue.

 

The other 3, (2 re-homes, one snatched from a local shelter hours before he was going to be euthanized) all came to me with lovely manners and great personalities. When it's time for another dog, I'll definitely make the rounds of rescues and put out the word to people in the BC world that I'm looking for another dog.

 

Yes, I've had to work with some quirks. But training an adult is sooooo much fun. You get results quickly and you can see where you make your mistakes even more quickly!

 

Good for you for checking in here!

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

 

ETA - I got them all as adults. One was right about 1 yr old, one was 2 yrs, and 2 have been 3 yrs old when I brought them home.

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Gail, check out West TN Border Collie Rescue in Memphis. If a dog named Suzy is still available, she may suit you -- lovely problem free playful female less than a year old. I almost adopted her myself but the voice of reason intervened, as two at once might not have been wise. But Im still thinking about her -- she made a stellar impression on me when I went to pick up the bitch I applied for. And I got exactly what I wanted.

 

No dog is perfect, but even their imperfections have a way of sneaking into your heart.

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I'm sure I'll get flamed for daring to ask this, but here goes anyway . . .

 

According to Optigen, who offers genetic testing for TNS (http://optigen.com/opt9_tns_test_for_bc.html), "The TNS mutation is widely distributed, occurring in over 10% of the population of both working and show lines of Border Collies." (emphasis mine)

 

So why would it not be considered an issue in working border collies?

 

Gentle Lake, I may be wrong, but IIRC there have been some threads in the past about TNS, and I was of the impression that the incidence in working-bred dogs in the U. S. was very, very low, and that it was more likely to show up in conformation lines (or perhaps in color breeders). But perhaps one of the vets on these Boards can chime in!

 

Not sure how Optigen defines "working" lines, by the way. I'd be interested in seeing what sort of study they've done to support this claim.

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red top, Pat Shannahan, yes. Now you're on the right track. I did a lot of research when I started looking for my dog (I also started out looking for a puppy) and his kennel was top of my list. I'm pretty new to the whole BC world myself, but I've been around long enough to know he's one of the top guys and well respected. I had contacted him but communication broke down for some reason - he stopped responding to my emails (did I say something wrong?) so I never got on his list for a puppy, or even know if he has one. Heck, I'd still like to be on his list for when it's time for my 2nd!

 

One thing about the top breeders you'll find is that the breed really infrequently and their communication isn't as reliable as those breeders who are in it for other reasons. A lot of my emails to working kennels ignored while those to sports kennels were enthusiastically received (I went through the same process as you're going through of figuring out what's what in this culture). My guess is they could smell the newbieness on me and figured I wasn't worth the bother, or they're just so busy they lose track of things. So, it's tempting to go with one of these sport or 'all around' breeders who always seem to have litters on the ground, but I'd be patient and persevere and go with a good working kennel and continue to monitor rescue...

 

Good luck!

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I agree with what everyone has said about rescues. Just wanted to add (because it usually seems to end up a discussion of "breeder puppy vs young or adult rescue"), that puppies are also available in rescue. Some as young as 8-9 weeks. Obviously there are not as many available as adolescents or adults, but if you're willing to do your homework and wait for the right opportunity, rescue puppies are out there.

 

On the other hand, The Most Perfect Dog Ever came to me straight out of Atlanta's Fulton County shelter at 3 months old, although I know not everyone can be that lucky. :D

 

Oh, and to the OP, although there are no BC specific rescues in AL, you're lucky in that just about all your surrounding states have good BC rescues.

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If the OP is truly in need of a service dog (assuming they aren't confusing the term therapy dog), I personally wouldn't reccomend a rescue or shelter dog. Not that it's impossible, but a SD needs to have a very specific temperament, the majority of dogs would not make the cut even if they are very nice dogs. Add to that the high wash out rate of owner trainers and even highly experienced training organizations and it's just not a good idea IMO, way too huge of a gamble. There is no way to know everything an adult was socialized to. They may seem fine and stable, but when you bring them home turn out to be terrified of crowds, a certain race, noises like the refrigeration section in grocery stores, or they may even be afraid of symptoms of your disability like a seizure or panic attack. All of those would constitute a wash out and either returning the dog or getting another to start over with. With a puppy you can tailor make a socialization program and know that you've done everything you can to assure success. Of course nothing is ever 100% but you can at least stack the deck in your favor. That is my opinion as a service dog handler and trainer. Also many shelters and rescues will not place a dog in a SD home.

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good point. If there's one area where Emmie won't excel, it's service work. Lack of early socialization, she's not, and never will be, "bomb proof". The SAR group that I'm in touch with indicate that they will help choose the dog when it's time, assuming I'm accepted as a candidate.

 

I reckon the OP could ask whatever service organization she's working with if they could assist her in choosing a dog with the correct temperament.

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With a puppy you can tailor make a socialization program and know that you've done everything you can to assure success.

 

That's true to a point . . . what it doesn't take into consideration is that most service dogs are raised -- with wonderful sozialization protocols in place -- by service dog programs other than the person needing the service dog. And even with all of the specific breeding of some programs and the careful raising and training prior to actual service training, many of these young dogs aren't suitable after all and never actually go on to become working service dogs.

 

So puppies are definitely a crap shoot, too.

 

If you really need a reliable service dog, you might be better off going through one of the service dog organizations to see if you can get a dog that's already been proven to be appropriate -- and trained -- for the job.

 

If your needs are less stringent, then by all means give it a go and see if you can train one yourself. I'm sure it could be a very rewarding experience, depending on your needs and expectations.

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Rebecca, Emmie's socialization is going very well. She's gone from hiding under benches in the presence of strange dogs and humans to the life of the dog park, goes to petsmart with us, handles hereself just fine out in public. She's come a long way in a couple months, but she's wary of human strangers and gets spooked by lots of noise and commotion.

 

She will back away of approached by a strange human (though she will approach on her own terms). She's fine for a neighborhood and companion dog, but her temperament, as of now, wouldn't be well suited for SAR work, where the expectation is that she can focus on her task even with lots of external stimulation vying for her attention. I'll, of course, continue to work with her on her socialization, and won't rule her out for SAR (I have until spring), but I'm guessing her spookiness may be too much to overcome. The more experienced handlers have indicated that they will help evaluate any dog I'm considering, so I'll defer to them when the time comes.

 

No matter her future in SAR, she excells as a companion and will live out her life with us. She just may end up getting a brother or sister at some point :)

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I wouldn't write her off until you know her personality when working... Some dogs get in a completely different headspace. Let the trainers tell you no (doubt they'll be shy about it) and then think about another that you can start from the beginning...

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I have not ruled out a rescue and I continue to look for one. I'm on a list for my state so if I see the right one I'll jump. As far as specific border collie rescue, there's none available in my state (Alabama) but I continue to check the website.

You may not live in a state with a BC-specific rescue group, but a LOT of rescue/shelter dogs come from Alabama. As someone else pointed out, contact rescue groups in neighboring states.

 

Also, are you familiar with this website?

 

http://www.bcrescue.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=883593b6be69c7d30b922ab62554cc22

 

I often spot Alabama dogs that need to be rescued. From your posts, I interpreted that you wanted to have a better idea of the dog's personality, quirks, good/bad habits, etc. if you decide to go the rescue route.The downside to the website above is that these dogs have not been in foster programs where the foster mother/father can describe the dog's behavior. They may have been evaluated at the shelter, but I wouldn't put a lot of stock in that evaluation since the behavior(s) seen at the shelter may be different that. Anyway, another option to think about.

 

Jovi

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You guys are great! Thanks for all the advice.

 

I misspoke when I mentioned service dog. I'm interested in taking a dog to places like nursing homes. Sorry about that.

 

I called and spoke with Edith at West TN BC rescue. Suzy was adopted and she doesn't think she has any suitable candidates right now. She did give me the name of a lady that has a six month old female and I will call her tomorrow. She also referred me to West TN BC rescue and I've e-mailed them (no contact phone number).

 

I also e-mailed Patrick at Red Top.

 

Thanks for all the great advice!

 

Gail

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I misspoke when I mentioned service dog. I'm interested in taking a dog to places like nursing homes. Sorry about that.

 

It's a common error. But knowing that you're interested in a therapy dog, rescue can be a great place to find a suitable dog. And with a dog of a year or so old, you should have a pretty good idea what the temperament will be like.

 

Younger than that, you might run into surprises. 6/2/12, looking for another therapy dog candidate, I adopted what I believed was a 6 m.o. BC pup. I had a whole day to assess her with lots of other dogs and kids in the park at a rescue reunion. She was great. And she started out being great in training at libraries with kids and other dogs. Then about 4 months later she became dog reactive. No clue why; she never had any bad experiences with other dogs when she was with me. She's still phenomenal with kids, but we're still working on the dog-dog stuff and until (and unless) we can get past that, she won't be able to pass certification as a therapy dog. Oh, and she turned out to be a lurcher, probably BC mixed with something in the sighthound family, not that that has anything to do with therapy dogs.

 

OTOH, the BC I'd adopted 5 years earlier was working as a therapy dog within 6 months of my having adopted him. He was very overwhelmed and wary when I first got him (he was picked up as a starving stray), but as he recovered his confidence he turned out to be perfect for the job.

 

So, puppies can surprise you . . . at least if you end up going with a breeder you'll know that it's a PB BC, but that'll be the only thing you can be absolutely sure of. ;)

 

Good luck in your search, and I'm sure whatever you find will be the perfect dog for you. :)

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I spoke with Prattville, AL animal shelter today and they told me about Janet, who is approximately 6 months old. She was turned in as a stray (found roaming around the countryside) 7/31/13. They said she is very timid and just lays down when taken out of her cage, but is active when in her cage. They said she is very sweet. She was tested and is heart worm negative. She is not yet spayed.

 

Does anyone have an opinion of what her mix is?

 

Any general thoughts?

 

http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/26942556?rvp=1

 

Thanks,

Gail

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