setting puppy ears

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

At my first (of 2) Westminster Kennel Club dog shows, I heard about a monorchid Malamute whose owner decided to remedy this disqualifying fault the old fashioned way: surgery. A compliant vet made a pouch beside the descended and packed it with non-allergenic styrofoam and Voila!

 

Unbeknownst to all, Mother Nature was merely taking Her Own Sweet Time and not long after, at a very big show when the judge reached under to count the crown jewels: "One,Two . . .Three?"

 

Donald McCaig

[Gideon's girl]

On the other hand, most of the terrier breeds that are still docked will never need to be pulled from a den, yet the convention remains.

My JRT got loose one day and we found her rear end sticking out of a gopher tortoise burrow. The vet that docked her tail cut it too short.

[5Bordercollies]

Wondering what your puppy's ears are gonna end up like is to me at least extremely entertaining. Zorro, my male has HUGE prick ears. Rusty's left ear falls over at the tip and the right one just plain falls forward flat. Their eldest daughter Jess has her mother's ears, except in reverse. Meg has for the most part inherited her dad's ears. Except that at rest the right one falls over at the tip, and just sometimes when she's paying attention, but a little confused then the whole right ear just falls over sideways at the base which gives her an adorable look.

[Flamincomet]

Back in the days when I was still interested in conformation showing, I taped my show dog prospect's ears. NEVER again. Besides the fact that I've come to adore all the different types of ears, and especially having fun watching them change as puppies, there is no way around it, taping ears, especially braces to get them tipped, is PAINFUL for the dog. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, no way around getting moleskin out of an ear without waxing it!

[geonni banner]

 

Hard to separate the fact from the fiction. But the excuse for wanting to continue docking from breeders here included the admission that their dogs hadn't been bred with tail conformation in mind and they didn't know what they were "supposed" to look like; horror of horrors, they could turn out to differ from dog to dog. Big deal - chop them all off then.

 

 

 

Docked Great Danes? Never come across that.

 

I too have seen a lot of puppies docked - at the vets. They were done at two or three days of age, and some of them peeped a few times, but nothing more. The vet used a local anesthetic. Breeders who elect to do the procedure at home will probably have different results. Adult dockings are awful. Seen a few of those done on tail-injured dogs. A few dogs did not survive.

 

I've seen a number of Dobermans and a few Rottweilers with natural tails. The Dobermans I knew all had what I call "monkey tails." The Rottweilers tails were not as long, heavier and well-covered with hair, including a slight fringe.

 

Did some looking at old pictures Of Great Danes, but didn't see any docked. But lots of them had their ears cropped nearly to down to the skull. Yeesh!

[Gideon's girl]

Tail docking of Danes was an ancient practice when they were used as boar dogs. I have no idea how long ago that went out of fashion, they looked like completely different dogs then too.

 

I've held hundreds of 2 day old pups for tail dockings and they mind the position they are being held in more than the docking at that age. We've never lost a dog due to needing it's tail docked due to injury, but I would swear that a number of them were traumatized for life. And it takes a long time to physically get over that surgery.

[mum24dog]

Breeders who elect to do the procedure at home will probably have different results.

 

It's illegal for a breeder to do it themselves here even if it is a docking that is allowed.

 

Even in the 50s and 60s all the pups my mother bred were docked by the vet. Not only do the pups scream, it distresses the dam.

 

There was a case fairly recently here of a Rottweiler breeder who ignored the law and docked all 10 of the litter themselves - all 10 bled to death.

[TEC]

Sorry, but you can hear showring folks explain just about everything in the "standard" in terms of functionality - and it takes a big dose of gullibility to swallow that. Like one who insisted that the pronounced stop in the show dog's head standard was so its brain would be protected from cow kicks, or the location of the eyes for a similar purpose. That the stocky and heavy-boned show winners are built that way to hold up over miles run on the hills and, again, resist injury from kicks. Sure, you want to buy a bridge, mister/missus?

 

Written standards aside, functionality of physical traits goes into the process of selecting a border collie for a particular task. I'm not speaking of selection, as in injudicious breeding for a characteristic, or altering tails, ears and such.

 

Which dog in a kennel will be suited for driving one-hundred ewes miles through dense thigh-high grass? Which will least likely have problems from fox-tail? Which will do well in hours of heat and humidity? Etc. Certain regions and climates of the world may have greater need for specific traits within the border collie breed. Whether a herder/shepherd is in the bridge business or not, they make decisions all the time based on functionality. It's fertile ground for discussion. -- TEC

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

Mr TEC writes: "Which dog in a kennel will be suited for driving one-hundred ewes miles through dense thigh-high grass? Which will least likely have problems from fox-tail? Which will do well in hours of heat and humidity? Certain regions and climates of the world may have greater need for specific traits within the border collie breed."

 

While this is theoretically true, our sheepdog population is so dominated by cosmopolitan trial dogs (they have to win at Meeker on range sheep, the NEBCA finals on dairy sheep and our Nationals on commercial cheviots) localized genetics don't get time to develop.

 

When I was Australia, 20 years ago, neither trial handlers nor commercial men wanted long coated Border Collies. Too hot.

 

Donald McCaig

[Liz P]

Terrier ears.

 

OH MY GOD! You are right! I've been scammed! She is really a Fox Terrier!

[terrecar]

I am assuming you have witnessed both, in order to make the comparison. Of course mitigating factors, such as the skill of the veterinarian and the age difference (3-5 days for docking vs 9-12 weeks for cropping in my experience) might make the comparison difficult. I am admittedly going on limited anecdotal evidence, and I have not worked for a veterinarian since I finished school (long time ago).

Having been present at the docking of many poodle pups I would have to disagree that the procedure is "comparatively mild". Thank goodness it is banned (with certain exceptions) in England.

[terrecar]

Where is Pam?! Let's have a look at Tuffy!

P.S. She will have to go to an experienced Fox Terrier home. Send her to me.

OH MY GOD! You are right! I've been scammed! She is really a Fox Terrier!

[Sue R]

Which dog in a kennel will be suited for driving one-hundred ewes miles through dense thigh-high grass? Which will least likely have problems from fox-tail? Which will do well in hours of heat and humidity? Etc. Certain regions and climates of the world may have greater need for specific traits within the border collie breed. Whether a herder/shepherd is in the bridge business or not, they make decisions all the time based on functionality. It's fertile ground for discussion. -- TEC

 

Certainly, and the "bridge business" was not aimed at you - it was aimed at the show aficionado who claims that the "standard" applies to all dogs and is always soundly based on functionality. I think it's more of a one-size-fits-all whether or not it is based at all on true functionality or just imagined functionality.

 

It is said that the first show standard for (I believe) the Rough collie was written by someone with no familiarity of the breed or its roots or its functionality (which, by that time, was minimal at best). Rather an armchair standard, at best.

 

Listening to what some people expound as the rationale for many of the aspects of the show standard can be an exercise in laughability, as even minute points have some sort of wildly improbable "reasoning" behind them. And that does not take into account the reality of real work in varying situations.

 

Of course, the variability of the working-bred Border Collie does reflect a diverse gene pool and the ability to find and reproduce dogs well-suited to a great variety of real world work situations.

[G. Festerling]

A long ago friend bred Rotts. Did all her tail docking at home (minor experience working with a vet but decades of breeding) and it was quick. Yes, the of course cried. But if I remember right (I assisted once under duress as I hate these procedures), none were ever done past 3 days old. She knew how to put a stitch in too if needed. I don't like it, but it was not as horrible as I would have thought. Every one went right back on the tit to eat and forgot about seemed like. When she started importing after Europe outlawed it, I liked her dogs but will admit, it took a bit of getting used too. Ears? I think are worse.

[Pam Wolf]

Where is Pam?! Let's have a look at Tuffy!

P.S. She will have to go to an experienced Fox Terrier home. Send her to me.

Honestly he has no nutz! He is NOT her dad really! Now her mother may have been scared by a fox terror and that caused the ears...

[mtnfrank]

Last year I met an older lady with a shy border collie, her dog that was shy around other dogs really liked my little guy and off the went running around (border collie 'dogism' I guess). So we start chatting and while we are talking a young woman comes by walking briskly with her border collie. She paused to chat for a few seconds and about the second sentence she said was "I'm so proud of my dogs ear, I have been glueing-taping them to get the proper shape" then walked off.

 

As soon as she was gone, the older lady and I exchanged puzzled looks "why in the world would anyone do that to their dog and in particular to a border collie"

 

I was floored by the idiocy of it but... looks like it's not an isolated case. Some people find it important to improve the ears on their border collie. Quite absurd!

[geonni banner]

I was floored by the idiocy of it but... looks like it's not an isolated case. Some people find it important to improve the ears on their border collie. Quite absurd!

 

I think the mistake is to imagine that such an implementation of artifice is an improvement of the ear/dog. It is not. It is simply a change of the dog to make it more in line with a given person's aesthetic notion. If it can be accomplished without harming or annoying the dog, I don't see any harm in it - although I may not see the point of it. It isn't like plucking a terrier. I've never seen one single terrier that wasn't made uncomfortable by being plucked. Nor is it like tail-docking, which always carries a risk of harming the dog, and if not done carefully, at the proper time, and by a professional, is quite painful for the dog.

 

I could never understand why people who breed Dobermans or Great Danes didn't just select for dogs with a naturally prick ear. I don't much care what the ears of a dog do, but it would save a lot of suffering and money to give over ear-cropping entirely. Tail docking is not so clear-cut to me. Having seen so many dogs that just can't seem to get through life without damaging their tails repeatedly, I think a case can be made for prophylactic "tail medicine" in some breeds. But then we're back to the big problem of purebred dogs in general. Why breed maladaptive dogs at all?

[Tommy Coyote]

_{My puppy has inside out ears. I think he will have hellicopter ears eventually. Right now they are inside out most of the time.}

[Gideon's girl]

I know somebody who says her dogs put on their party hats when they turn their ears inside out.

[Falon's Mom]

We call them "dorked" at our house. Only because they look silly and often act goofy when it happens. We tell Sage to "undork his ears" and he shakes his head. He also has airplane/helicopter ears.

[rlwzgd]

We call them "dorked" at our house. Only because they look silly and often act goofy when it happens. We tell Sage to "undork his ears" and he shakes his head. He also has airplane/helicopter ears.

Ha! Love it! Al gets his ears inside out when he's been running around like a nut... I'm going to have to borrow "undork your ears, Goofy" nice ring!

[geonni banner]

Sugarfoot has one ear that occasionally goes prick and sometimes turns inside out. When that happens I say, Mademoiselle is wearing her ear a la Francaise." She usually affects not to have heard me...

[Tommy Coyote]

Puppy's ears are so cute right now. They kind of stand out sideways. Fits his funny little face.

[Gideon's girl]

How can you say that without a picture!!

 

Falon's Mom, I love "Undork your ears."

[Sue R]

Celt, for all my wishing he would have prick ears, has those folded airplane ears. I can't imagine him with anything else now.

 

Bute, who looked for quite a while when he was around 3-4 months old like he would have price ears, wound up with the same airplane ears. "Dork ears" would have been a lovely name for that because he always was our Dork-boy.

 

Dan never had ears I even imagined would prick and he was our third set of airplane ears. He's the Doofus of the group, in more ways than one.

 

They all seem well-suited by what God and genetics gave them.