mum24dog Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 ...which makes it sound like Ahimsa's curriculum is religious (which it doesn't sound like it is at all, but I guess I'll find out at our first class) and doesn't work (which seems dismissive, particularly given the esteem most others on this thread seem to hold for Ms. Stewart and her abilities). I fail to see why anyone should find a philiosophy based on empathy and non violence a threat or suspicious in some way. I have no religious affiliation (although am culturally Christian) and I find nothing objectionable to my lack of spiritual conviction on the web site. If more people took the same approach to life there would be a lot more happy people in the world. It defies reason why such an approach should provoke such hostility. Go for it and make your own mind up, as you are clearly capable of doing. Let us know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 ...Anyway, I've registered with Ahimsa and don't have any qualms about their philosophy. If you don't agree that's alright, far be it from me to say what works and what doesn't. Dog owners of good conscience can disagree on their training methods. Yes, and if you and your dog are successful and happy with a program, that's really what matters. You seem strong and able to detect propaganda, and to decide what to do with it. You are already toward the top of the pyramid, taking classes and socializing your pup. -- Best wishes, TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamincomet Posted July 27, 2013 Report Share Posted July 27, 2013 Oh geez. Would this be a big deal if a well known behaviorist said their training was based on Christian views of loving each other (like Kathy Sdao)? That's all this is. Your religious choices do affect other aspects of your life, it's not a bad thing. Personally I find a non-violent and non-forceful training philosophy refreshing, who gives a crap what religion it came from, it's a good thing! From what I've read of Grisha Stewart, she doesn't have any propaganda or suspicious motives. She just believes dogs should be treated a certain way, and if that is based on a different religious belief than mine I'll look at it as a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Hey, this is a ridiculous conversation. I have a dog named Dexter Morgan. I've not killed anyone yet. Yet. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 I have a good Obedience trainer in Monroe, which is northeast of Seattle....I send my students to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Hey, this is a ridiculous conversation. I have a dog named Dexter Morgan. I've not killed anyone yet. Yet. RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChantalB Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Ms Chantal suggests: " search for key words like clicker, positive, fun, games, self control, socilization, confidence" Might I also suggest "virgin birth" and "transubstantiation"? While many pups are succesfully trained by Evangelicals, Unitarians have had their innings and one ought not confuse quasi religious precepts with effective dog training. Ask to see dogs the trainer has trained, including the trainer's own If you like what you see take out your checkbook. If not, try the church down the street. Donald McCaig To the OP, you are training a future sports dog, therefore advice from someone without sports knowledge may not be the best. I don't know any thing on herding, therefore I leave that to the experts like Donald here. Sports I do know, agility being my main area. I 100% stand by my advice with those key words. While I couldn't give you trainer specific advice (although Grisha is famous in pet/sports training world and I myself am very good friends with a trainer who teaches her curriculum and is doing amazing work with reactive dogs, and rescue rejects.) those key words, in conjunction with common sense, attending a trial class/watching the instructor teach, should help you on your way with finding a good foundation for your future SPORTS dog. Look at a potential instructors dogs, but not only that ,her students and their dogs. How are they liking her training style, how are their dogs doing in the ring? Some instructors are blunt, critical and harsh. Myself I like that, I pay money for lessons, not for sugar coating. Others like a more positive environment with much more compliments than critical errors being pointed out. It all depends what you personally like. Are the dogs relatively stress free, do they feel safe and those the curriculum allow for teams to move at their own pace without feeling rushed. At the end of the day, foundations are key. Avoid classes that have you on equipment within the first couple sessions if you at all interested in a competitive future, even recreational competitons. While it may be fun, there are heaps of work to be doing before this (self control, strength training and conditioning, trick training to prosper the dogs ability to learn, work ethic 'work', relationship and team building exercises, DRIVE work...yes even BC need to work on drive, etc) which will not only help with future success , but allow the game to be played with less frustrations and more safety for you and your dog. Your BC as a STEREOTYPE may be motion sensitive, reactive and a dweeb He will catch the agility bug very quickly and love the game. So it's essential to have A LOT of impulse control worked into the early years right away. The most important thing even. They will pick up agility quick, so don't worry about how fast/slow you are progressing, just put a lot of work in the relationship and bond, so you can overcome future hardships, by making yourself and in turn the game the best thing out there versus the mountains of distractions that come with the sport. As agility is a game, IMO the best classes teach all these early (and future) lessons in the context of small games that are super fun and build on each other. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChantalB Posted July 28, 2013 Report Share Posted July 28, 2013 Oh and I've never once heard her training discussed with religion?!?!?! Lol the BAT method is quickly becoming a standard for reactive dogs. It's none confrontational, keeps the dog below treahold I have nothing but awesome things to say on BAT (Grisha's method) and a heap of other sports/pet people would agree. Words are words. Wow they cause a lot of trouble. So contextual with so many hidden and different meanings. My dogs name is Jude. Judas when I'm irritated. Jew when I'm calling him. It's just wordplay, but I'm sure there are a 100 bad things that could be said on those names I've chosen. I'm a none judgemental, very relaxed and compassionate person. So I just tell people to get over it. Stop making issues where there are none to be made. Get to know something before you let a word drive you. Things can be so complicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Gentry and clergy make me nervous, too. Really all Donald needed to say was the last part, "Ask to see dogs the trainer has trained, including the trainer's own If you like what you see take out your checkbook." (and don't just go on the style of training itself). I'd also kill to train with Grisha Stewart and her team (I'm already jealous of your lucky dog!) -Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Dear Doggers, That the arguments for the superiority of one dog training method over another are intense, quasi religious and, more often than I'd like, extremely rude - is a fascinating feature of the human/doggy landscape. Since I'm a standard American pragmatist, I favor any method (short of Ritual Fricassee) which suits the owner and gets the dog trained to the owner's satisfaction - however low the owner's expectations might be. If the method helps the owner feel technologically "cutting edge", that's fine. If it makes the owner feel virtuous: okay. Makes the owner feel a little like the Mahatma - how can that be a bad thing? Because the fact is - with the exception of problem dogs and dogs asked to perform very well in difficult or competitive venues - all these methods work about as well as the effort the owner puts into them. The secret is there is no secret. So why all the angry voices? Those on this list and those who commit to helping others train their dogs have a powerful attachment to dogs. Me, I think that's a sign of mental health. Our culture thinks we're a little bit weird. But that passion divides us as surely as it identifies us. Like every religious cult, our worst enemies aren't the sinners, they're the heretics. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 So why all the angry voices? Who's angry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChantalB Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Who's angry? Agreed! It's not anger if we're disagreeing, or supplying our own opinion! Healthy discussion ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkwm Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 Update: our first class went GREAT! Loved Ahimsa, our trainer/instructor is Wynona and she seems really helpful, really good. The curriculum was engaging, fun, and (has to be said!) not at all religious. Laika loved playing with the other puppies and learned so much that she was totally sacked out for the rest of the day! We can't wait for our next class! Laika trying out the socialization theme of the week: dog clothes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChantalB Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 So great to hear! Keep the updates (and pics) coming! So adorable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Glad to hear it went well - but what's with the dog clothes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Update: our first class went GREAT! Loved Ahimsa, our trainer/instructor is Wynona and she seems really helpful, really good. The curriculum was engaging, fun, and (has to be said!) not at all religious. Laika loved playing with the other puppies and learned so much that she was totally sacked out for the rest of the day! We can't wait for our next class! Awesome!! I'd love to hear, as you go along, some of the things you are doing!! And the shirt is adorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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