Pulling on the Leash

[Lucy]

My 9 month old BC is a pleasure to walk with whilst she is off the leash but l have to walk down a couple of busy roads to get to the river/fields she play in.

Whilst walking with her she continuously pulls on her leash to the point where her feet slip while she is walking. She only started this at about 5 months old. I try to stop her doing this by stopping and giving her a tug on her lead whilst telling her 'Wait'. As soon as we set off again she starts pulling again. I have persevered with this technique but to no avail. Has anyone any suggestions because my arm can't take no more.

[Lucianne]

I had the same problem. A Halti worked for a while, which attaches around the neck and snout, and the lead is connected to the snout so that when the dog pulls, it's head gets turned to the side.

 

This stopped working after a while for me though, not sure why, but it just stopped being so effective.

 

I know a guy who trained his Pointer with a Halti by having the lead on as normal so that the dog got used to the lead being lose, but also controlled the dog with a halti on a very thin lead, and stopped him from pulling like this, and apprently that worked very well.

 

With my BC cross Bramble, I also tried making her sit whenever she pulled, but this went on for a week or so and had little or no effect on her.

 

Currently I walk her on a flexi lead, and have found that to be the most successful - I know it's the lazy way out, but it gives her the freedom to walk slightly ahead as she wishes, (she has road sense and automatically stops and sits at pavements) and most of the time doesn't reach the end of the lead, I've found that often she'll look back to see where I am and even stop and wait for me.

 

These are some of the examples that I've tried, and although it doesn't provide a permenant solution, or teach the dog to heel correctly, it does provide my arm with some relief!

 

If you do a search on this on the General board, I'm sure you can find other topics on the matter. Good luck!

[philologus]

We have two BC's and had the same problem. We used Halti's and the problem was gone!

Next problem - The Halti is supposed to be a temporary fix so that the dog gets used to walking at heel - you then go back to a normal collar.

We have tried this and as soon as the Halti comes off they are hooligans again!

We tried using the Halti AND a normal collar at the same time so that we could wean them off the Halti. That didn't work either so we are resigned to the use of the Halti on a semi-permanent basis.

The dogs will soon be two years old and have settled a lot in the last few months so we will try to get them off the Halti again soon.

[BigD]

Same problem, same issue. However, I was told to stay away from the Halti and use the Gentle Leader. I looked into it, talked to owners of both and decided the Gentle Leader was for me.

 

It works - works better than "be a tree" or go the other way or any of those things I tried for about 8 months. The Gentle Leader stops the arm yank.

 

However, I do not use it on a 6ft lead. The only time my dog is on a 6ft lead is at class, in an area packed with people or in the obedience ring. He knows heel and we use it only when we need to. (In the above situations.)

 

During our daily fun walks - I see no need for a formal heel position or even a position where he should be closer than 6 feet. So, we use the Gentle Leader with a flexi. Disclaimer - we are never near roads or cars. Only the beach and fields. He gets to run around, but still under control (other freaks with dogs off leash is what I'm trying to control - not my own dog). Of course, most of the time we have it off anyway when no one is around.

 

I do not think that the haltil or Gentle leader should be used to teach heel position. That's just MHO. I think they are best used for people that want to give their dog some on leash freedom, but not get their arm yanked off.

 

I highly suggest you find someone that knows how to use one of these things the right way! My vet offered a 30min instruction session for it. Once you know how to fit it, and how to use it - it's much better. 95% of the ones I see on dogs in catalogs are fit wrong. And proper fitting is 99.9% of it.

 

Good luck! Also, if you have not already - get your dog in some obedience classes. I would say that the classes helped us more than the Gentle Leader did in the long run.

 

Denise

[mandiefurniss]

I second what Denise said about getting someone to show you the correct way to use the Gentle Leader. This afternoon when I took the 3 devils for a walk, I saw a young man with a Red Cattle Dog who had one on, this poor dog actually had the buckle just under his left eye. I stopped the guy and asked if he knew how to fit it and he didn't, I showed him and he said that might have been why the dog was pulling more than before. Poor dog.

Mandie

[concrete]

When I'm teaching a dog to walk on a lead all I'm looking for is that the dog not get out ahead of me. I'll stick my riding crop in my back pocket and give the dog plenty of lead so it can get ahead of me if it wants. When it does get ahead of me I swing the crop right behind it's butt really fast, you want to make some noise. It scares the dog and they either stop or jump behind me. I just keep walking and repeating this and pretty soon my dogs get very uncomfortable in front of me. After awhile I just need to step behind them if they get out ahead and they jump behind me. I want to make it clear that I never hit the dog with the crop.

 

Kevin Brannon

[Pam Wolf]

Having worked with many dogs on Halties or Gentle Leaders for many years, the most common reason for them not working is that the dog is allowed to pull while wearing the haltie. If used properly, any time the dog pulls, he is not rewarded--and for pullers, the act of pulling can be the reward. Allowing the dog to pull sometimes then correcting it by whatever means--either leash pop or stopping- w/o consistancy will cause the dog to pull even more. It is most important that when on the haltie the dog not be allowed to pull at all. I prefer to use the stand still and make like a tree method, but with a very short leash have resorted to quick about turns for the real problem dogs. It is important here that the leash is very short or the dog could get injured.

 

Another method is to teach the dog to pull on command then not allow her to pull unless the command is given.

 

No matter which method you use though, consistancy til the dog is no longer pulling is most important.

 

Pam

[Pam Wolf]

Another thing I will do with a bad puller is to stop, then if they insist on pulling, I back up, gently tugging on the lead til they come back and put slack in the lead. Then I will reward them and start ahead--It can take alot of time, but works well. I use this for walking pups to the sheep.

 

Pam

[SoloRiver]

The reason a headcollar can be useful to teach loose-lead walking is that it is primarily a management tool. It's harder for dogs to tow on a headcollar, so you can stop them from doing the unwanted behavior while you train the wanted behavior.

 

I don't think leash corrections ("pops") should ever be given on a headcollar. I would not use one with a Flexi lead, either. I don't think it's safe. No dog on any sort of training collar should be on a lead with enough slack in it to hit the end of it at speed. I don't believe the hysterical claims of chiropractic injuries from headcollars that many people have repeatedly bleated to me (I think they're based on a very flawed understanding of how headcollars work), but I do think whiplash injuries are at least a possibility when a dog hits the end of a 16+ foot lead with a headcollar on. The point of a headcollar is that it increases leverage. It makes no sense whatsoever to use one with a retractible lead. I mean, think about it.

 

The nice thing about a headcollar is that a dog who feels pressure from one (steady pressure, the kind he would feel if pulling on one), he will tend to stop and turn toward the handler. You can then reward the stopping and looking behavior, which can be useful for teaching a dog to walk at heel.

 

Personally, the technique I like best is to teach a general heel off-lead, and then ask for heel on-lead when you want it.

 

I have one bad puller -- Fly. Solo has always been a gentleman on lead, flat collar or headcollar. I made the mistake of putting a headcollar on Fly to stop her pulling, but never training her to walk nicely apart from the headcollar (I rarely walk the dogs individually, which makes teaching her to walk in a loose lead difficult). She now pulls on the headcollar. Not as hard, because she can't, but she does pull. This is entirely my fault. When I first put the headcollar on her, I got the magical cessation of pulling and mannerly behavior that is advertised. I should have gotten my foot in that door while it was open. She learned to override the headcollar and now it does not stop her pulling.

 

No tool is going to train a dog to walk nicely. Shirley Chong has a few ideas on teaching loose-lead walking on her website (http://www.shirleychong.com) that I think are really interesting and if I had more time I'd start instituting them. In the meantime I use a headcollar to curb Fly's hardest pulling, and walk Fly off-lead most of the time. She's quite excellent off-lead.

[BigD]

SoloRiver states:

 

"but I do think whiplash injuries are at least a possibility when a dog hits the end of a 16+ foot lead with a headcollar on. The point of a headcollar is that it increases leverage. It makes no sense whatsoever to use one with a retractible lead. I mean, think about it."

 

I agree - IF you are going to sit the dog next to you and let them do a flat out run to the end of the lead. But in a controled and INTELLIGENT manner - the use of a head collar on a flexi is not going to do any damage. Especially when the dog is let out gently and kept out at that range. Common sense folks. Use it smart, get some help and watch your dog and surroundings. Research the tool, speak to others that have used it with success and without. And again, make sure it's fitted properly. The use of it with or without a flexi is determined by your location, the dog and you. If you think he is going to take off after something (dog, cat, wind, bug, cloud, etc.) then you need to keep the leash short. Which CAN happen on a flexi as well as a 6ft. lead.

 

Denise

[SoloRiver]

I agree - IF you are going to sit the dog next to you and let them do a flat out run to the end of the lead. But in a controled and INTELLIGENT manner - the use of a head collar on a flexi is not going to do any damage. Especially when the dog is let out gently and kept out at that range.

 

Why use a headcollar at all in this situation? If a dog is mannerly on a Flexi, what does he need it for?

 

It still has not been satisfactorily explained why one would use a headcollar along with a Flexi lead. The point of a Flexi is to give the dog greater freedom. The point of a headcollar is to give the handler more control. A headcollar will increase leverage. A Flexi cedes leverage. If a dog is on a Flexi in the first place, leverage must not be much of an issue. Why not use a flat collar here? It still makes no sense at all.

 

As far as I can tell, the only good use for a retractible lead is to comply with leash laws. I wouldn't use one on a dog who needed to be on a shorter lead. I think they are particularly useful for dogs who would otherwise be off-lead or who are dead-on mannerly when on lead. If you're dealing with bad leash manners, retractibles often make them worse. If you're dealing with a dog who might bolt, a safer option would be to have the dog drag a long line, like a 20-foot training leash. I have seen, too many times to count now, urban owners with dogs on Flexis who at some point drop the Flexi (usually when the dog bolts and hits the end of the lead suddenly), whereupon the dog takes off with the Flexi bouncing along behind him, scaring the crap out of him and making him run away faster.

 

There is a big, huge difference between a dog hitting the end of a six-foot lead at speed (actually, if a lead is required, I prefer a four-foot lead) and a dog hitting the end of a 20-foot lead at speed. Besides this, the key to keeping a dog from doing this in the first place is in watching the dog. I am just really and truly baffled at the headcollar + Flexi idea. It's kind of like waterproofing a bikini.

 

I do use a Flexi with Solo at times. When I do, I take off his headcollar and attach the Flexi to his flat collar. I do not put him on a Flexi in situations where I need the extra control that a headcollar and shorter leash provides.

[Lucy Goosey]

Hi Lucy!

I think your problem is that your dog doesn't know what you expect of her. She doesn't realize that keeping the lead loose can be rewarding. Pulling is rewarding to her, because it puts her in control of the situation, and she thinks it gets her where she wants to go.

 

Try this: Get some treats, hold them in your leash-free hand, right at belly button level. Have your dog on lead, with the lead in one hand. Take one step, and as you do so, swing your treat hand down next to your leg, where you want your dog's head to be. Release the treat to her once she is in position, then turn nintey degrees in the opposite direction away from your dog (if your dog is on your left, turn to the right), take one step, swinging your hand down to your leg, and letting her take the treat when she's in position. Keep rotating ninety degrees and taking one step. This is called the "Box Step", and is a good starting point for teaching loose lead walking. You don't need any special collars for this, because it's not the collar that is teaching the dog, it is you.

Practice the box step a couple of times per day, for five minutes at a time. As your dog gets used to this, start taking two steps, rewarding each step, then turn ninety degrees and taking two more steps. Over time, as the dog gets it, increase the number of steps until you're doing a big box with ten steps on each side.

After that, start practicing loose leash walking while on walks. If she starts to forge ahead, turn in another direction, swinging your treat hand down to your leg to get her back into position.

 

In the meantime, you'll still need to walk her, but you don't want her to continue this pulling habit. Every time you take her for a walk and she gets to pull, the pulling is reinforced. I suggest that you get a Gentle Leader (I prefer these over the Halti) and use that for walks. Also, I prefer a four foot lead over a six footer. Keep the lead as short as you need to in order to keep her from forging ahead.

 

The nice thing about a Gentle Leader is that it can be converted to a regular buckle collar simply by removing the nose strap from the dog's muzzle. You can walk your dog with a GL just like a buckle collar, but if you get into a situation where you need a little more control, you can just slip the nose strap back on.

[Betsy]

Can someone explain the difference between a Gentle Leader and a Halti? I've done some reading on both, even seen side-by-side pictures of them, and can't see a difference.

 

Thanks,

Betsy

[Lucy Goosey]

The difference is in the construction. The Gentle Leader is made of two separate, adjustable loops. The nose strap is also adjustable. You can tighten it or loosen it as needed. The Halti is more like a halter, sewn together, and is not adjustable.

[BigD]

SoloRiver -

 

We agree to disagree. What works for you, may not work for someone else. And what works for me, may not work for other's either. You opinion is one I value, but do not agree with on this particular point.

 

All dogs are not alike, as are all situations, owners and conditions. My need to use the Gentle Leader came out of 9 months of strick 6ft lead training. For some reason, I felt the need to keep my dog at my side for the whole walk. Bull. He's out for fun. So the Flexi came out. But then he decided that 12 ft is not far enough and would pull and pull. So...out came the head collar on a 6ft lead. Forget it. That's not what it's about. So we used the flexi at 6ft, 8 ft, 9ft, and up. Once he learned his limit, he stop pulling with the head collar. He knows he has the fun to run up to that point. 90% of the time he is off leash with me. But for leash laws, he gets the flexi and head collar. That's what works for MY dog in MY situation. Period.

 

If you disagree, that's fine. But don't try to tell me it doesn't work, or it's useless or pointless or stupid or whatever. Because it works for ME.

 

You have the right to say that you find fault in it. But it works for me. And when someone comes on the boards asking about the leash pulling issue - I will tell them how I FINALLY got around to enjoying my walks with my puller. It's not the solution that will work for everyone, but I know that when I was in that situation, I wanted to try everything. The more information I had, the better I was prepared.

 

So Melanie...let us agree to disagree OK? It may make no sense to you at all...but there is at least one person out there who finds it works, and works wonderfully.

 

Denise

[SoloRiver]

So Melanie...let us agree to disagree OK? It may make no sense to you at all...but there is at least one person out there who finds it works, and works wonderfully.

 

I'm afraid I can't just agree to disagree, because I think it's dangerous. Flexis are rife with hazards anyway; using them along with a training collar of some sort (GL, prong, choke, whatever) is much worse.

 

I look at any training collar as a crutch when it comes to loose-lead walking. The goal should be to train the dog, not to manage it. It seems to me much safer to teach a dog not to pull on lead (regardless of that lead's length) than to put him on a long leash with a training collar. If the dog does not get the message that it is not cool to pull on a long lead (if he "decides" the lead is not long enough) it means he doesn't really get loose-lead walking. Even if it works for you to use a Flexi and a headcollar, I think it's dangerous advice to be giving to other people, which is why I can't just say, "OK, if it works for you, fine."

[Lucy Goosey]

Why does it say right in the instructions not to use the Halti with a retractable leash?

[BigD]

SoloRiver -

 

Fine. However...it does work for me. So there!

 

And I'm sure those that want to know, will take your caution to heart.

 

Aloha!

 

Denise

[Tassie]

Quote:

 

Another thing I will do with a bad puller is to stop, then if they insist on pulling, I back up, gently tugging on the lead til they come back and put slack in the lead. Then I will reward them and start ahead--It can take alot of time, but works well. I use this for walking pups to the sheep.

 

Pam

 

______________________________________

 

Just wanted to say this was a method advocated by Suzanne Clothier too at a seminar I went to recently. Her philosophy is "It takes two to pull" - hence the stopping - and the backing up gets the dog to pay attention to what the handler is doing, not just to what he wants - so he gets rewarded for the attentive behaviour - much as others are saying.

[JEL]

Just wanted to offer another idea, which personally worked for me with a dog that pulled me around for 4 yrs where no other method of either reward (for doing it right) or correction (for pulling) worked:

 

Start off on a 6' leash with the dog on a flat buckle collar. Loop the leash in both hands so that the dog will start out with a little less than half the leash length looped down in front of him, and the rest of it looped in both of your hands, which should be plastered to your waist and stay there. Tell the dog "lets go" or whatever you choose to use to let the dog know you're off on a nice little leash walk. As he forges out ahead and begins to tighten up "his" end of the leash - - you drop the excess loop in your hands (holding onto the handle tightly with both hands, of course, and keeping them stationary at your waist)then execute an abrupt right about-turn, and walk off briskly in the opposite direction! Do not give the dog any verbal hint of what is about to happen...the combination of him taking off in one direction and you taking off in the other is going to give him a pretty good yank...so don't try to compound it with any excess arm motion on your part (and fyi, thats why he's on a buckle collar..you want to give him a bit of a surprise...not risk him getting hurt on a choke collar or head collar)

As he races to catch up to your side, reel up the excess leash and position your hands to repeat the correction; while giving him a little verbal "welcome back" to your side. But..as he forges ahead in the new direction, be ready to repeat....

 

The whole point of the exercise is to allow the dog to see that YOU did not correct him. YOU simply chose to change direction and HE caused the unpleasantness by not paying close enough attention.

 

The difference is that you are not yanking and pulling and giving verbal and physical corrections to the dog. I think that most dogs are canny enough to wear us down and train us to accept some level of their pulling, simply because we're not delivering an effective and consistent correction and following through completely until the problem is totally resolved.

With this method, the dog does get an unpleasant correction..but instead of you yanking and hollering, all he sees is your back as you move off in a different direction, and when he catches up to you, you have only nice things to say to him...I can't explain really, but the dogs seem to "take responsibility" for the correction and pick up really quick on the fact that *mom* is an unpredictable creature and if they don't want to keep getting yanked off their feet, they best pay a little attention. (and fyi..this kind of attention is not the "watch me" obedience-type attention..what it does more, is make the dog "aware" of you...puts you in the picture...)

 

All I can tell you is that I had that incorrigible leash puller for 4 yrs, and he "got it" in one lesson, and after a couple weeks of daily leash walks, he just plain stopped trying to pull on the leash....on the rare occasions, over the course of the next 11 yrs, when he would be in a public place and get all excited and "forget", I would simply start off with one or two quick "about-turns" and the rest of the day he would be faultless!

 

Janet

[chicken]

Well, the only thing I read that works (if you want a quick and effective way to get your dog to walk on a loose leash) is what Janet wrote. Except that a buckle collar is not going to correct a lot of dogs. I agree never to use any type of halti, gentle leader or choke collar with this method, but do use a prong collar. Janet - this method is the exact same method Adam Katz uses. Except he'd never recommend a flat buckle collar. I'm assuming you got this from his books/videos. And she's right that the dog should learn in about 10-15 minutes never to pull on the leash again and always have slack in and focus 50% on you and where you're going and doing. I'd highly recommend visiting this website and purchasing the video "How to Walk on a Loose Leash", it's saved my life with fostering labs, instead of spending days and days on training a dog to walk on a leash, I can spend 15 minutes and just a couple of sessions throughout that week and that dog will never pull on a leash again. And the best part, the dog is still happy and wagging his tail, the best part is they aren't choking themselves on the end of the leash anymore. His website is www.dogproblems.com

 

Cathy

[JEL]

Hi Cathy,

 

I've never heard of Adam Katz, but I do like the method...I learned it from a videotape on companion dog training called "Command Performance" - I apologize, the trainer's name escapes me at the moment...it is David something...but I do recall him specifically saying to use a flat buckle collar because if done correctly, the dog is going to give himself a bit of a flip, and while this tape doesn't shy away from an effective correction, he does warn against causing injury by using any of the training-type collars (choke, prong, halti, etc) and it is quite effective without the prong collar, I can promise!

I really like the video...it is on loan to a friend right now...but he starts the dogs out on a buckle collar and a long line, and by the end of the 6 wk (8 wk?) he takes you right through on-leash manners to off leash control...all without any cookies or gimmicks, while building obedience and respect with positive, praise-based training backed by fair and consistent corrections.

I highly recommend the tape for anyone looking for such a tool for general training...

 

Janet

[ToffeesDad]

Hi Lucy,

 

I had the same problem with Toffee and I tried so many of the things listed above and non of them worked. He hated the Halti across his muzzle and would even walk with it on. He'd just flop over and try to pull it off with his paws. What finally worked for me was a combo of a couple methods (because all dogs respond differently to different methods). Toffee doesn't respond well to a stern voice on correction. Which I think was my biggest problem in changing his pulling habit. Here is my method:

When he pulls (I do use a choke chain) I give him a slight jerk and say in a almost praising type voice "Toffee Heal". If he doesn't respond I do it once more. If he still doesn't repond I stop walking. I then wait until he either comes back to me or sits "but don't give the command to sit let the dog do it on his/her own". Once he sits I start walk again. If he pulls we start the process over again. It took about two weeks of doing this but it finally sunk in. One additional note, don't give the dog much leash, keep it short unless they stop pulling and give you some slack. The less he pulls the more slack I will give him to sniff around and explore. And I also praise whenever he reaches the end of the leash and then backs off to give the leash slack.

 

Hope that makes sense and helps.

[chicken]

I just can't see it working with an extremely strong dog that a correction hardly phases. One myth about the prong collar - you'd have to hang the dog in order to do any damage to a dog. Try one out on your arm next time your in a store that sells them, all it does is give an uncomfortable pinch. The exact same method bitches use on their puppies, that's why prong collars are extremely effective in correcting any unwanted behavior. I'm sure it would eventually work with a flat buckle (and you do phase out the prong after just a few days to a flat buckle), but 6 weeks is way too long for me, when I can get the same results in 15 minutes and have the same happy, unharmed dog. And the same thing applies with the praise, when the dog corrects himself by going to the end of the leash, and the only way he can get the discomfort to stop is by turning toward you, he gets verbal praise from you when he's near you. This entire method is actually based on Koehler, however Koehler used choke chains which are becoming far less common because a prong is much more effective and cannot do any damage to a dog. Choke chains can do tons of damage. And it works on all dogs (soft, stubborn, hyper, fearful, etc). It took me years to get anyone to convince me to even try one and when I was finally demonstrated in person on a hyper rescue lab that I was fostering, and the fact that the dog was not hurt and remained happy and cheerful and learned in literally 15 minutes, I was sold.

 

Cathy

[Lucy Goosey]

If the correction doesn't work, then it's not a correction. A correction is not a correction if it does not stop or change the behavior. I have found, in my own experience, that it's a lot more effective to teach the dog how to walk on a loose lead than it is to try and correct the dog for pulling. Some people might consider the techniques that I have found to be effective as "gimmicks", but a "gimmick" wouldn't work, and this does. The first step is to start using the box step, as I posted about previously in this thread. And STOP allowing the behavior. If the dog is pulling, the dog doesn't go forward.

 

I do like the idea of quickly changing direction when the dog starts to forge, but the aim should not be to jolt the dog by the collar with a lot of force. The aim is to be unpredictable, so that the dog has to keep an eye on you. When the dog comes back to your side, reward him with praise and a goody (there is nothing wrong with using food to TEACH a behavior).

 

Another thing people are sometimes unaware of is their pace. Many people walk so slowly that the dog soon gets bored and their nose begins to wander. Speed up, walk at a brisk pace! You're boring when you walk slow.