Told off at Obedience

[dogrsqr]

Obedience trainers really do know how to make you feel like silly don't they?

 

Anyhow, yesterday at training I got yelled at because it told my 6 month old BC female the following:

 

"Lilli Sit" - well, did the trainer go off at me. She said "YOU ARE USING A SENTENCE, YOU NEED TO USE A SINGLE WORD, DOGS DO NOT UNDERSTAND SENTENCES"

 

I was a little bit embarrassed so I thought I would ask you guys, the question that when you want your dog to do something/anything, do you use a single command word? I am in the habit (possibly bad one) of talking to my dog and giving commands in very short two, three word sentences.

 

Just thought I would get your thoughts.

 

Thanks in advance.

I don't think that "Lilli sit" is a sentence, more like a phrase.

 

I have been in classes where people talk to their dogs in sentences and even paragraphs and that is really annoying. I don't think this qualifies. She should understand both her name and the command "sit" even if she weren't a Border Collie.

[Debbie Meier]

"Lilli Sit"

 

 

Nope...not a sentence, just a cue followed by a requirements "Lilli" - I am going to ask you something so I need your attention, "sit" this is what I am asking you to do. The key is to make certain she acknowledged her name in some fashion. Some use a leash tug instead of saying the dogs name...some trainers don't think about the fact that we are having conversations with our dogs all the time utilizing body language, physical contact and voice...

[GentleLake]

I don't think that "Lilli sit" is a sentence, more like a phrase.

 

Grammatically speaking, "Lillie, sit." is a sentence.

 

But, so, in fact, is just "Sit."

 

All that's required for a sentence is a subject ("Lillie") and a verb ("Sit"). (There are some exceptions to this, but they're not relevant here.) The sentence, "Sit." has an implied subject, i.e. the person (or dog) being spoken to.

 

Search any definition of a sentence, and you'll see that it can be "one or more words."

 

So, you're trainer's incorrect on all counts.

 

roxanne (a linguistics geek)

[Cody & Duchess]

Diane Pagel..... Thank you so much for sharing that story. Sounds like our dog Duchess, who is devoted to my husband. Your tale added lots of smiles to our night.

[Alchemist]

Ask your trainer whether it's OK to say "good dog!" - or is that a sentence?

 

Sheesh. My Border collies understand complete sentences of more than just two words. I can't begin to count the multiword commands the adult dog has mastered - lots I've seen in this thread. And yeah, we can't even spell o_u_t_s_i_d_e. We have to use the Spanish phrase "afuera". (No native Spanish speakers here, by the way).

 

And as others have pointed out, consistency is overrated. Working dogs are amazing in their ability to assess the nuances of commands simply based on how well they're stretched out or truncated when being uttered. Same goes for whistles. Long outrun vs short flank, it's all a subtle variant of the same command. They just seem to master this effortlessly once they have the command fixed.

 

"Bad dog" isn't used often around here, but boy does it make an impression. "Shame on you" is used fairly frequently when Duncan exercises his selective hearing during lessons ("what 'lie down' command was that?). "Go say hi to ___ (name the individual)" - we never trained it, he just figured it out. And if I don't know the person's name, but they want to greet my dog, I just say "go say hi". So he can grasp the command ("go say hi") as well as the modifier (the individual's name), whenever it happens to be included.

[mum24dog]

Grammatically speaking, "Lillie, sit." is a sentence.

 

But, so, in fact, is just "Sit."

 

All that's required for a sentence is a subject ("Lillie") and a verb ("Sit"). (There are some exceptions to this, but they're not relevant here.) The sentence, "Sit." has an implied subject, i.e. the person (or dog) being spoken to.

 

Search any definition of a sentence, and you'll see that it can be "one or more words."

 

So, you're trainer's incorrect on all counts.

 

roxanne (a linguistics geek)

 

And don't get me started on "What is a word?" A stock essay topic when I did my linguistics degree.

 

As for name - verbal cue, I don't know how it is over there but competitive Obedience and Rally here in the UK allow it as a single cue, or name - physical cue. Does this trainer think they are all wrong then?

[Mark Billadeau]

Ask the trainer. When one has multiple dogs how does one get a specific dog to take a command and not the others without using their name?

 

 

For example, standing at an open door and I only want one dog to come through the door.

 

"Come" will elicit all the dogs to come through the door where as "Lillie come" could be used to tell Lillie to come and the others to not come.

 

 

Pointing at the specific dog may work depending upon how spread out the dogs are (not useful when a pack of dogs are all standing in front of a door). The only other way I know how to accomplish this is for each dog to have its own command words for every command.

 

 

For example

Dog A: commands in English

Dog B: commands if French

Dog C: commands in German

 

etc.

[Root Beer]

Pointing at the specific dog may work depending upon how spread out the dogs are (not useful when a pack of dogs are all standing in front of a door). The only other way I know how to accomplish this is for each dog to have its own command words for every command.

 

 

For example

Dog A: commands in English

Dog B: commands if French

Dog C: commands in German

 

etc.

 

I can say firsthand that having different cues for different dogs is a challenge in and of itself!! This isn't something I set out to do on purpose, but sometimes it works out that way. Then I end up giving one dog another dog's cue and the dog looks at me like I am speaking German!!

 

I can't even imagine trying to do that for every cue! I wouldn't have it straight for five minutes!!!

[Root Beer]

This past winter, I guess I got in the habit of saying "I need to get to bed" just before I was about to get up and head back to bed. If I say "I need to get to bed", Dean immediately flies to the back of the house!

 

He obviously understands, at least, that "I need to get to bed" means that we are going to move from one end of the house to the other! If I said any of those words outside of that sentence, he would not respond the same way.

[Gideon's girl]

For example

Dog A: commands in English

Dog B: commands if French

Dog C: commands in German

 

etc.

I used to train police K-9s and we did this. Every different dog had their own "shut up" command too. My parrot learned to bark in the unique style of each dog and tell it to shut up with its own command, including a whole litter of Malinois puppies.

[border_collie_crazy]

haha, I once looked at a very muddy Happy, and told her she had 2 choices, she could sit in a crate for 2 hours till that mud dries and we brush it out, or she could have a quick 5 minute bath and it will be done and over with, I turned away for a second to deal with one of my other dogs, when I turned back Happy was gone..when I walked in the bathroom looking for her(she often hides on the laundry pile when she wants to avoid something) she was sitting in the bathtub. dogs don't understand sentences my butt lol , she not only understood the sentence she made a decision without guidance between 2 things she hates lol

[mum24dog]

dogs don't understand sentences my butt lol , she not only understood the sentence she made a decision without guidance between 2 things she hates lol

 

Mostly likely she picked out the word "bath" from all the yadda yadda and responded to that.

 

My dogs are the same with Bed.

 

Did you ever see the Frasier episode where we saw humans through Eddie's eyes, or rather ears?

 

BCs are more verbally attuned than most breed but they are still dogs.

[border_collie_crazy]

she doesn't respond to bath by getting in the tub, she responds by hiding in a small dark cornor and hoping I won't find her.

[mum24dog]

Maybe it was the way you said it on that occasion that made her respond differently. Who knows?

 

Dogs are not always 100% predictable and slight differences in what we do or say are easily picked up by them.