Not Obeying ANYTHING

[Shazmnldb]

Hi all

Our 5 month old girl Lilli is being a right little turd at the moment. She is completely ignoring our commands if we don't have a treat in our hands. She just sits and looks at us like we are beings from another planet. She was awesome until about a week ago, did everything we asked but now it is like she is a totally different dog. I m at a loss as to what to do. We attend obedience every Saturday and has been promoted a month ahead of when he should be. Obedience is done with treats by the way.

 

Anyone have any advice? I want my beautiful, obedient baby back.

[juliepoudrier]

Puppies, like children, go through stages. The down side to a whip smart border collie puppy is that they raise our expectations tremendously and then when they revert to more typical puppy behavior we are at a loss. My suggestion would be to go back a step or two in your training and lower your expectations for a bit. If treats are needed, then use them. Don't forget that she's still a baby at 5 months, and like any baby will have periods when she backslides or does the unexpected. Try not to get frustrated as that may only exacerbate the problem.

 

She ay also simply be bored. If you're training the same things over and over she may be telling you she's tired of the drilling. If that could be the case, then find some new, interesting things to train her on.

 

J.

[Sue R]

What Julie said!

 

And, to emphasize, these dogs are bright and it is very easy for them to get bored with the same old thing. Don't drill but make your training more interesting, less predictable (mix it up a bit), and purposeful. Do it on a walk; in a different place; just a repetition or two here and there throughout the day when you are going about other normal stuff (keep treats out of her reach in each room in the house so you can do an impromptu mini-training session any time you choose; with different treats or varying the number of treats (one treat this time, a few next time, maybe none the third time, etc.). Drilling and too much predictability can be very off-putting, particularly to a youngster.

 

And they do go through stages included the dreaded adolescence (which is really not all that bad but can be challenging, and makes you think and re-think your training approaches as a youngster tests his/her boundaries and becomes less interested in you and more interested in a wider world oftentimes, at least for a while).

 

If needed, put her back on a leash or long line so that she can't blow you off, or train in a confined area where you can always walk her down if she tries to ignore you. You summed it up with "I want my beautiful, obedient baby back." She's not such a baby any more, she's on the cusp of the teenage months! And one of these days, she will bloom as a confident, mannerly adult dog that is a pleasure to be with.

 

Good luck, stick with working intelligently with her, and you will find it is worth the effort!

[Tommy Coyote]

I think just about all of my dogs have gone thru a phase like that. Little Jeddie was such a good dog. I used to take her on long walks without a leash. She stayed right with me. And then she turned 5 0r 6 months old and she just quit doing what she was supposed to do. She just took off and did what she wanted.

 

She grew out of it. And so did all the others.

[Gloria Atwater]

All my dogs have done that - or some other weirdness - at that age. I think they're just discovering themselves and their world, and sometimes it results in stubbornness. It's like when a toddler suddenly learns the word "No."

I'll just echo what others have said. She may be bored. You may be boring. The training routine may need some changing up and mixing around.

Most of all, you need to be calm and patient and wait it out. You can't demand anything of a pup at this age, so just be consistent in your handling and training, and have patience when she's in "turd" mode. This, too, shall pass. Good luck!

~ Gloria
P.S.

She may want a break from the weekly obedience class. That can be lot of pressure/stimulation for a young dog and she may simply be at a stage where her mind is not receptive to it. You can do the same training exercises at home, but rather than having her to class, you can just do it in little 30-second "bites" off and on at home all day. Just some food for thought!

[ChantalB]

Ditto to what everyone else has said, but also look into 'reinforcement schedules'.

[Shazmnldb]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks so much for all your advice. I think patience is the key. What Gloria said regarding when toddlers learn to say "No", that could be it and also possibly boredom. Otherwise, yes patience is the key. I bought her some new treat toys today and she is much more responsive than she has been all week. This girl of mine is going to be more expensive (toy wise) than my 9 year old son. I have also been conscious about my body language, I wasn't getting angry with her but I think she could sense I was annoyed, again response is much better. Boy oh boy these BC's keep you well and truly on your toes. I must be crazy but I want another one ( a little later down the track when Lilli is older). They truly are like little furry people.

 

Thanks again to all of you.

[alligande]

It has been mentioned on another topic recently, but try rotating her toys, that way they become exciting again. I still have most of the toys I bought my guy when he was puppy, and they are still fun when he has not seen them in months.

[Gideon's girl]

Border Collies are definitely like potato chip, you can't have just one.

[rlwzgd]

Ditto to the reinforcement schedule. To start, treat the behavior every time, but then randomly treat - it becomes a game, am I going to get something if I do it now? What if I do it faster? Prettier? Add this or that? I save up the reward, but make it more worth it.

[Alchemist]

Ditto all of these suggestions. Sounds like normal adolescence, coupled with a touch of boredom.

 

Also ditto the recommendation to look into intermittent reinforcement schedules. I heard something on this topic once on NPR. Something that's reinforced only randomly becomes more compelling than something that's reinforced consistently. IIR, the example given was those of us who check email compulsively: we keep hoping it's a message from a friend, when nine times out of ten (or more), the emails we receive aren't particularly welcome.

 

Here's a start on intermittent reward schedules in dog training. I haven't followed this one exactly, just the general idea, in weaning dogs from treats. Every now and then you can also make one reward a "jackpot". It sure keeps some people playing slots...

 

http://www.clickermagic.com/clicker_primer/clicker_p18.html

[scout]

Sounds like your dog is bored. Just being stubborn like kids. I would suggest lay off the training for a few days and then next time you give her a command do not reward her. She has to understand she is not going to get a treat all the time.