Malamute for Therapy

[Mary&Sully]

So I know this isn't a border collie question but...

 

My mother is looking for a therapy dog for the elementary school she works at. Her principle has okay'ed and the permissions are in place. The dog will accompany my mother at school and interact with the kids/ be present during therapy and such. The dog would be trained by and live with my mother, who has experience raising Guide Dogs for the Blind.

 

The school originally wanted a Husky, but I am recommending a Malamute instead just based on temperament. However, I have no experience looking for reputable Malamute breeder and need some advice!

 

Can you look for a working bred Malamute and do I want one for this purpose? I don't trust the AKC stamp and I find myself shying away from breeders who talk about the physical attributes (seem to be breeding for masking) but this is *very* prevalent. Also, Malamute rescue seems to be smaller scale than border collie, and I need to be sure and get a young dog that can be properly socialized for the elementary school.

 

Can anyone with Mal/Husky experience point me in the right direction?

Thanks!!

 

Mary

 

(Just a quick brag - my young/soft bc just got his first agility title, I'm so proud!)

[Gideon's girl]

Loath as I am to say it, this may be the instance when AKC bred *may* be better for your purposes. They weren't bred to work all day after all, just to lie around and look pretty. I feel slimey now. I'll go crawl back in my hole now.

[gcv-border]

Loath as I am to say it, this may be the instance when AKC bred *may* be better for your purposes. They weren't bred to work all day after all, just to lie around and look pretty. I feel slimey now. I'll go crawl back in my hole now.

 

LOL! :D

 

Jovi

[arf2184]

Personally, I would look into a 'failed' service dog. Not all puppies/dogs that enter service dog training programs make the cut for a number of reasons and those that don't have to go somewhere. They can probably give you a really good evaluation of the dogs personality. Maybe your mom has some contacts through Guide Dogs for the Blind?

 

As for malamutes...the ones I've met have been a mixed bag as far as temperament goes. As with any breed, not all will be cut out for the job of therapy dog. Some malamutes get huge and that might be intimidating for some kids (though could build confidence if they can overcome their fear).

[TrulyReady]

This is just personal opinion but I would never consider a husky or a Malamute as a therapy dog in a school setting. There coats are particularly allergy triggering and would probably set of every non pet owning asthmatic child in the school... Thier undercoat is light and carries in the air more then most breeds, not to mention no amount of brushing will help when they are blowing coat. Add to this they are both bred to be very independent and aloof and are not people pleasing by nature. This is not to say they arn't friendly but most want attention on thier terms and when they are done, they prefer to do their own thing. My uncle raised huskies for years and though they tolerated kids well and were never aggressive it was a chore for them to put up with us as kids. As a teenager my neighbor had a Malamute who was aloof but very tolerent of just about everything but still wouldn't be my top pick for therapy dogs.

[rushdoggie]

Yeah not sure why a husky of any kind os your first choice? Both Sibes and Malamutes will run if let loose. I knew a Malamute with a CD and a devoted owner who was lost forever when he escaped a fenced yard. My own Siberian who I could run off leash in a safe area and had a CDX still left us on a walkabout twice when she found an unattended opening in our fence (once when she was 13 years old!). The Siberian we shared with my husbands ex needed a radio fence buried outside our 6' fence to keep her from climbing the fence to escape when she saw a critter in the distance.

 

Malamutes are HUGE and could be frightening looking to any child with a dog phobia. They shed horribly and would aggravate allergy issues. They can be aloof and many don't enjoy the kind of "in your face" love a kid gives a dog. Its one thing in a family where you can be responsible and train your own kids but at a school its impossible to control the behavior of other peoples kids.

 

I also have to disagree on the idea that a Malamute having an intrinsicaly better temperament than a Siberian. Many can be quite friendly but they can be very small animal (classroom gerbil anyone?) aggressive and dog aggressive.

 

Just not the best choice (either breed) for a "school" dog.

[Liz P]

I would not go looking for a Siberian or Malamute specifically as a therapy dog. They actually have the highest bite rate of any group of dogs.

 

Perhaps the only related breed I would even remotely consider is a Chinook.

[waffles]

My first thoughts were exactly what others have said. If you like the Northern Breed look, why not try an American Eskimo? The few that I have known personally have been pretty friendly and outgoing. They can also be comical at times and can be a great size for elementary school aged kids.

 

I also like the idea of taking on an adult dog of whatever breed with a proven sound temperament, especially around strange kids.

[Liz P]

I've know plenty of nasty Eskies as well. Same difference as the huskies.

[waffles]

I am sure we all know nasty dogs of any given breed (I know a lady who had stitches in her face from an attack by a border collie) but at least Eskimo Dogs are smaller. Could be easier for the owner to care for, especially if you have no Husky or Malamute experience and less intimidating to young kids . The only way to know if the dog is "nasty", no matter what breed they choose, is to go through a reputable rescue that has done extensive temperament testing, then continue training that dog yourself.

 

ETA: Eskimo Dogs would not be in my top breeds for a therapy dog either but just thought if they are dead set on a certain look, than this breed is at least a bit better suited typically for this work, if at all.

[Gloria Atwater]

I think I'll ask the questions others have ... why a husky/northern breed?

They SHED a lot. I've never met a malamute or Siberian of any sort that didn't shed huge, copious amounts. They have lots of undercoat and it is going to come out. Highly allergenic and they require plenty of grooming to keep the house from turning into a giant lint trap. Plus I have have never heard where either breed is high on the list of most bidable dogs to train. Siberians often seem to be hyper/high energy and malamutes are often high energy and stubborn.

Not meaning to be a pain in the butt, just curious why the school would recommend that type of dog, when other breeds would seem more typical and easier to live with.

~ Gloria

P.S.
I did once know a malamute named Brandon who was a complete couch potato. But he was also HUGE - when he stood up and put his paws on my shoulders, we were eye-to-eye - and yeah. He shed. Lots.

[Tea]

Of course there are individuals in any breed. But I have run alaskans and siberians and working malamutes. None of them would I use for anything else but sled work.

[mum24dog]

Grooming a Malamute -

 

http://kinarticalaskanmalamutes.weebly.com/grooming.

 

One grooming session, I'm sure, and you can find similar for huskies.

 

Just in case anyone thought the above posts were exaggerating about shedding.

 

I wouldn't ever have thought of either breed as a candidate for a therapy dog in terms of size and likely temperament.

[Mdaniels]

I had a mal, who I raised from a puppy, many years ago. Normie. He wasn't officially a therapy dog, but I used to take him to work with me at a residential children's facility. He loved the kids and they loved him. I'd say it was pretty therapeutic for them...I think it has as much to do with individual temperament as it does the breed.

 

And yes, he shed enough to knit a few extra dogs each week . I never minded.

[Gideon's girl]

My uncle had a Samoyed. He was never around children at all except every other summer when we came to visit. He was an excellent kid dog. The huskies and Mals that I have been around, not so much.

[Liz P]

American Eskimos are another northern/spitz breed dog, so have the same potential as a husky for biting. I've met plenty of them, and while many are very sweet and gentle, plenty of them are scary aggressive. If someone wants a sure thing when it comes to temperament, they should get an adult dog. If someone wants to stack the odds in their favor but insists on a puppy, they need to choose a breed known for excellent temperaments.

[ShoresDog]

I like the idea of trying to get a young dog who didn't make the cut from Guide Dogs for the Blind. They breed their own dogs for trainability, health, and sound temperament. While not all qualify to go on as Guide Dogs, the ones who don't are still excellent dogs and would have a whole lot going for them as therapy dogs.

 

Meanwhile, if you're wed to the notion of training up one of the Northern breeds, I'd consider a Samoyed or Samoyed mix. Of course like huskies they shed a whole huge gigantic amount, but Sammies are so nice and so sociable. My daughter's dog is a Samoyed-Siberian cross, and Tundra is as solid as a rock. Both parents had wonderful temperaments and were their owners' heart dogs.

 

Tundra volunteers at the VA Hospital:

 

 

[Mary&Sully]

Thanks everyone for your input... A husky/malamute would not be my first choice.

 

This is a very complicated situation, more so than I realized when I first posted. Apparently the principal of the school is rather impulsive and the deed is done (puppy gotten). While my mother is liable for the training and control of the dog, apparently the principal believed she had all the power in the choosing process because she was footing the bill.

 

The reason she (principal) wanted a husky was because the school mascot is a husky. Which, I tried explaining, should not matter. If you want a therapy dog, get the best dog for therapy. But she wouldn't budge. And so I offered, no begged, to help (ie control) the search for the puppy by insuring the correct breeder and lines that may have a temperament better suited for therapy than others. The principal believed that since she read huskies have been service dogs, that the breed was wonderfully suited for it and any husky would do. Besides, my mother and I are dog trainers, we can "fix" anything.

She came home with a puppy from I breeder I literally begged her not to consider. This breeder has gone from 0 dogs to 14 huskies since 2006. She jokes about "collecting on of every kind of husky". She has had 7 litters since January of this year, one from each of her females who do not have health testing and only some of which are registered. At first, I believed this woman to be a puppy mill - now I believe that she is just extremely ignorant, irresponsible, and in way over her head. But - the puppy has been given to the school and according to the principle, "You can't beat a free dog".

Now- we are stuck with this puppy my mother has been tasked to train in order to bring to an elementary school specifically for special needs children. I wonder how expensive the "free" dog will be if it is temperamentally unsound and we find out when it bites a four year old autistic child.

Even after attempting to educate people, my mother included, they still seem to completely overlook everything when they have a cute puppy in their hands. This has been a very upsetting experience for me.

[gcv-border]

I know someone has the head-banging icon. Please use it!

 

Obviously, being a principal doesn't necessarily mean one has common-sense regarding dogs.

 

I once dealt with a house-painter that would not use certain types of paint (generally the ones carried by the big-box stores) unless the client signed a waiver absolving him of his guarantee. The painter would give a 2-year guarantee against paint peeling/splitting, etc. only when he used a high-end paint, but some clients were insistent on a certain brand because they had read good reviews on-line (but they did not have any real-life experience with the paint)

 

Too bad you couldn't get the principal to sign a waiver since he/she made such a bad choice of 'starting material'.

 

Having said that, I hope everything turns out well for the sake of the kids.

 

Jovi

[mum24dog]

This is a very complicated situation, more so than I realized when I first posted. Apparently the principal of the school is rather impulsive and the deed is done (puppy gotten). While my mother is liable for the training and control of the dog, apparently the principal believed she had all the power in the choosing process because she was footing the bill.

 

-------

 

Now- we are stuck with this puppy my mother has been tasked to train in order to bring to an elementary school specifically for special needs children. I wonder how expensive the "free" dog will be if it is temperamentally unsound and we find out when it bites a four year old autistic child.

 

 

Surely it isn't in your mother's job description that she has to take on responsibility for this dog? If I were your mother I would refuse and put my reasons in writing to the principal and the board of governors if necessary. That's if a reasoned personal approach won't work, and it seems it won't.

 

Is she being paid for all the work involved?

 

Will it be insured by the school?

 

She needs to be very careful she isn't stuck with liability if anything goes wrong and the safety of the children is at stake.

 

What about alerting some of the parents to the situation on the quiet if your mother wants to keep her head down?

[Liz P]

Oh boy. Not good. Who is footing the bills for food, vet care, training classes, etc?

[Gloria Atwater]

Surely it isn't in your mother's job description that she has to take on responsibility for this dog? If I were your mother I would refuse and put my reasons in writing to the principal and the board of governors if necessary. .....

 

Will it be insured by the school?

 

She needs to be very careful she isn't stuck with liability if anything goes wrong and the safety of the children is at stake.....

 

This.

If it were me, I'd back away from this like a runaway train. This feels like a HUGE liability in the making. Is there any way your mother can distance herself/separate herself from this situation? Just because she's a dog trainer shouldn't mean she's stuck with someone else's choice.

Who is actually raising this puppy, anyhow?

I do think this is a bad deal, though, and your mom needs to find a firm, professional, businesslike way to just cut herself loose of the mess.

Such a crummy thing. So sorry.

~ Gloria

[urge to herd]

What everyone else has said. You and/or your mother, even though your mother works for the school, are not obligated to take on a train wreck. In addition to writing letters to the Schools Superintendent, the School Board, and the Teachers Union, your mom could also contact a reputable therapy dog institution and ask for a consult about the advisability of using a Northern type breed for a therapy dog in a classroom situation.

 

It seems to me that unless your Mom was hired by the school district as a dog trainer, then she can not be forced to train dogs for the schools.

 

Consult the teachers union and/or a lawyer. The risk of tragedy is too great to not do everything possible to get this thing shut down.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[rushdoggie]

Well, thank kind of sucks! I hope it doesn't go badly.

 

Is the puppy a Siberian or a Malamute? How old is it now? I hope while its still in that critical socialization window that the pup is getting out and about and meeting lots of kids. Both of my girls were real sweethearts but a dog who will be exposed to kids all day needs a lot of early socialization with them.

 

Plus, this may turn out to be not great (wait till that puppy hits adolescence!) and he may have to be rehomed.

[Mary&Sully]

The puppy is a 12 week old, 25lb male Husky.

While my mother has some experience training Guide Dogs, she has never dealt with a problem dog or even one that has not been specifically bred for service work (her pet/pushover Golden doesn't count!). Not that I am the expert, but I try to learn as much and my exposure through agility training has made me aware of different personality dogs and the training joys/obstacles that go along with them. I know enough to know to realize that I don't know nearly enough about training

 

I was very disappointed when I was talking to my mother about this - she seems to have a carefree attitude and believes that it will all work out (probably her biased exposure to family-friendly Goldens). While I believe very passionately about good breeding practices my mother does not. We had a small spat (maybe a little more than small) when she asked me what was so horrible if they did get the puppy from a puppy mill breeder as those dogs need rescuing, and rescue dogs make great therapy dogs according to the newspaper. She didn't have a clue about local training clubs and didn't seem to agree with me that she should have the dog tested (like a hospital service dog certificate) before bringing it into the school.

 

I think that the people reading these boards (as well as myself) hear therapy dog and we envision the dog sitting with mentally ill, emotionally troubled children. A dog that will have to take hair pulling and accidental tail squishes and wild children running up in their face. From my mother's attitude, I am hoping that when she says "therapy dog" she means a dog that will sit in the corner of her room and occasionally get patted on the head. She does live in the South, things are much lower key down there.

 

I am trying to get over our spat and try to help out, it is just very hard dealing with her excitement over the super cute puppy when I am so nervous about it. I'm trying to let things go, understand my mother and others may never care enough about breeding practices to relate to my discomfort in this situation. I feel like I need to be more positive with her in order to mend our relationship and to be of some help with this puppy.