How common are Shetland Sheepdogs at herding trials?

[waffles]

The BBC sends out trials (a man and his dog) on prime time television. I find it hard to believe that those thousands of viewers are all border collie owners with stockwork ambitions...

Well I am in the US where most people don't even know what BBC is (I have no way of watching those trials but have heard that they air them). Honestly I have yet to come across any "regular" everyday person who even knows what sheepdog trials are. They may be somewhat aware of an Akc type trial but nothing about border collie trials. Even where I work, customers who own BCs I talk to do not know that they are still used to work stock. This is obviously just in my world and what I have experienced. Obviously you have experienced different.

[gcv-border]

I can't imagine why the general public wouldn't want to go to a sheepdog trial. Of course, I realize that not every demographic would be interested, but there is a large segment of the public that enjoy learning, enjoy being outside and can also appreciate the expert work of a sheepdog and the handler (even though they may not fully understand everything that they see).

 

From my personal experience at attending trials (spectator only, at probably more than 20 trials), the best trials I have ever attended were held in conjunction with the Altamont Fair, a country fair held in a small town about 20-25 miles outside of Albany, NY. At the time, the trials at the fair were part of the NY State Sheepdog Championships (as I understood it). The trial at the fairgrounds could be considered an arena trial? (The arena was about 250-300 by ~600 feet.) The previous 2 or 3 days consisted of field trials at a nearby farm.

 

Sorry for rambling, but the reason I loved these trials was only in small part the amenities - fair, food, craft vendors. The main reason was the announcers! They kept people informed about what was going on. It wasn't a running commentary, but well-timed snippets of information. For example: "Coming to the post is John Smith with his 3 year old male dog, Kip. John is from Smithtown, USA and this is his 4th year here at the trials. This is Kip's first year here in Altamont, and only the second time he has run in an Open trial. etc. ..." And then a few other explanatory comments off and on during the run about what is happening or what should be happening. The comments were always kind. "Kate is trying very hard to shed the collared ewe from the rest of the group, but that ewe is sticking like glue to her friend."

 

I admit that when I attend a trial, I do end up getting bored (flog me 40 times with a wet noodle ) because I know very few of the handlers, and know practically nothing about their dogs. I will go and look at the running order so I can put a name to a face or dog, but a few facts would make the whole experience a whole lot more interesting. I love watching the dogs run, but find that extra information makes it so much more captivating.

 

If certain trials want to build an audience (I know not all trials want to deal with the extra work that public attendance requires), I would suggest providing the public with some information about what is happening, about the handler, about the dog, about BCs in general, about the history, etc. This could be accomplished via an announcer, a handout, a kiosk, or even have a manned 'information booth'.

 

Jovi

[waffles]

 

Sorry for rambling, but the reason I loved these trials was only in small part the amenities - fair, food, craft vendors. The main reason was the announcers! They kept people informed about what was going on. It wasn't a running commentary, but well-timed snippets of information.

 

If certain trials want to build an audience (I know not all trials want to deal with the extra work that public attendance requires), I would suggest providing the public with some information about what is happening, about the handler, about the dog, about BCs in general, about the history, etc. This could be accomplished via an announcer, a handout, a kiosk, or even have a manned 'information booth'.

 

Jovi

 

I have showed "Away To Me" to a few people who all absolutely loved the movie. But, I had to tell them what was happening, what things meant, why something was happening, etc. because they kept asking (plus much of the movie focused on the humans and their stories with their dogs which I think made the movie more appealing to a broader audience). If you don't know much about it, then yes, for most it would be boring and I too, would love to go to a trial with a commentator. I looked up the show that was mentioned and found this review (1st one) that is pretty much what I would assume most people would think.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0334859/reviews?ref_=tt_urv

 

Still, I think it is a niche audience just like anything else-I like hockey but wouldn't go to a minor league game, I would never go to a swim meet though I love swimming and I love dogs but would never go to an agility or flyball trial to watch.

[juliepoudrier]

FWIW, although now a number of people are going to point out trials where spectators DO show up, I still believe that MOST people, except people who already are interested in dogs, livestock, etc., are not likely to find sheepdog trials an exciting day out. Yes, there are exceptions, already mentioned here, but in general people don't drive out into the country looking for such events, unless the event is held in conjunction with some other venue that does attract them, like the fiber festival at Montpelier in VA, or if there's a lot of promotion, like at Soldier Hollow.

 

The UK is different. People there live with a shepherding tradition for the most part. Even people with no interest in livestock understand the cultural heritage in their own land and if they venture out into the country, they are likely to come across sheep, and probably shepherds and sheepdogs. Here in the US, most people don't even think of livestock, except as that stuff on a foam tray wrapped in plastic in the grocery store (and some don't even make the connection then).

 

Does anyone remember what sort of spectator turn out there was for the PA finals? Gettysburg is a tourist attraction unto itself. Did having the finals nearby make a difference in spectator turnout compared to, say, the next eastern finals that was held at Belle Grove?

 

I know Donald does a good job of advertising his trial locally and he does get spectators, despite being truly in the middle of nowhere, but I think most of those folks are people who are friends/acquaintances of his and it's for a good cause. But I think PR is problematic for most trials, except for the largest or those close to urban centers. It's just one more expense/thing to do on the host's plate.

 

Once folks show up to trials, they do seem interested, especially if someone is willing to explain what's going on, but I don't think that gaining spectator attendance at most trials here in the US is realistic. I'm sure there are people who would find a trial interesting, but for more than a few runs if there's nothing else to do?

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

duplicate post

[geonni banner]

I was thinking. What could you do that would make the general public want to see a sheepdog trial? How would you get them interested in the concept and then willing to go to the place where the trial was held?

 

Of course the first thing I thought of was a film or television series which featured a Border Collie working sheep. But then.... OH NO! It would inevitably lead to a "Gosh, those are such PRETTY, SMART DOGS! I WANT ONE!"

 

OK. Never mind the TV/film angle. <_</>

[DeltaBluez Tess]

My spouse is good for about 12 minutes at a trial....the amount of time that his Tess (now deceased) or Rainey would run....he would show up to watch Maid and Nan run as they are my dogs. THis is when he comes to the trial wiht me. Which is about once a year and most of the time when he is at the trial, he is doing something else.

 

He said it is liking watching paint dry (he is a painter) but by God, sit next to him and he can tell you all about the runs, sheep, points etc....simply amazing for a guy who claims he has no interest in the sport.

 

Once Scott Glen was watching TV at out house and we were watching an International DVD, a series. Being polite, Scott turned to Getty and asked "Are you familiar with what is going on?" He knew that Getty was not a handler and didn't want him to feel left out while watching this. I am sure he was probably going to explain some of the runs to him.

 

Getty turned to him and dissected an entire run, where points went off, what was good, bad, sheep, dog work...the whole nine yards.

 

Scott turned to me and said something along the lines of, "I thought you said he didn't know anything?"

 

Getty pretty much nailed the entire run. I was too stunned to say anything. I had no idea who my husband was at that point! For someone who claimed he is not interested, he sure figured it out.

 

He does uses the dog for moving sheep during feeding or when I am gone, a dog if needed. Maid adores him and obeys perfectly for him.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Wouldbe Hosts,

 

Spectators? Depends on the trial and the host. Meeker, Soldier Hollow and Kingston wanted spectators from the getgo and had PR savvy hosts. The Bluegrass - which is every bit as good and important a trial - draws fewer spectators because (IMHO) Lexington's horse country and animal lovers go to horse events not dog events.

 

Some trials don't want/can't handle spectators. Fine with me.

 

But I respectfully disagree with those who think spectators are bored at sheepdog trials. IF (and only if) the hosts arrange an explanation (skilled announcer is good, volunteer explainers nearly as good.) spectators not only come, they'll return next year.

 

For them it's a family-friendly beautiful half day in the country watching amazing dogs.

 

Sure - having a fair or other kid-friendly events (Kingston/Soldier Hollow) increases attendance but you can do pretty well without.

 

Our trial is in the backwoods - county pop. 2000, nearest gas thirty minutes, - but last year we had 150 carloads of (paying) spectators.

 

1. We've been there for years. People know where we are.

 

2. We feed good.

 

3. We have adequate portopots.

 

4. We put out flyers and use free ("What's On This Weekend) media coverage and solicit newspaper stories.

 

5. We welcome guests with running order/trial explanations.

 

Given half a chance, people love our sport and our dogs.

 

Donald McCaig

[Mark Billadeau]

I agree with Donald's take on this; there are lots of people/families who will come out to a sheepdog trial if the event is close, the weather is nice, and the event is set-up to accommodate spectators. I'm certain we could easily be overwhelmed with spectators if we timed our event properly (for example soon after the MD sheep & wool festival or in the fall) and promoted it. Agritourism is big business in MD; people here love to go spend an afternoon on the farm as an alternative to their typical suburban lifestyle. And the potential pool of spectators for us (DC-Baltimore-Northern VA metro areas) is significantly higher than it is for Donald.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Wouldbe Hosts,

 

Next two weekends are the Highland County Maple Festival when 24000 tourists, each weekend, cross a nasty mountain from spring back into winter in order to see ordinary crafts, clogging, watch maple syrup boiled down (slower than paint drying) and endure long, long lines and wicked traffic to eat maple donuts. Did someone say sheepdog trials are boring? Go figure.

 

Donald McCaig

[ShoresDog]

But I respectfully disagree with those who think spectators are bored at sheepdog trials. IF (and only if) the hosts arrange an explanation (skilled announcer is good, volunteer explainers nearly as good.) spectators not only come, they'll return next year.

 

For them it's a family-friendly beautiful half day in the country watching amazing dogs.

 

Donald McCaig

 

I totally agree with this. Soldier Hollow attracts over 25,000 spectators to a 4-day trial. The announcer, Ray Crabtree, is excellent, and really helps people get to know the handlers and dogs and get excited and interested. And, since Soldier Hollow was the biathlon venue in the Salt Lake City Olympic Games, there's a leader board!

 

 

I've been going to this trial since 2006, and I often recognize spectators year after year. I've heard folks out there with their kids saying things like, "We come every year. It's our family tradition. It's our heritage."

 

I think when the venue is suitable for spectators and there's a reasonable population within an hour or two, it's possible to attract a nice crowd. With regard to Geonni's comment about maybe too many people would want a border collie -- when Ray Crabtree's announcing (and I think he is the best), he frequently comes around to a little talk about what poor pets border collies are for most people! :lol:/>

[gcv-border]

Dear Wouldbe Hosts,

 

Next two weekends are the Highland County Maple Festival when 24000 tourists, each weekend, cross a nasty mountain from spring back into winter in order to see ordinary crafts, clogging, watch maple syrup boiled down (slower than paint drying) and endure long, long lines and wicked traffic to eat maple donuts. Did someone say sheepdog trials are boring? Go figure.

 

Donald McCaig

 

I got a kick out of this. I live about 2-2.5 hours away and have driven through the area during the summer. Absolutely beautiful. I stopped at the Maple Museum. I have thought about visiting the Maple Festival, but after reading the reports of the attendance #s and thinking about all those 'city people' on the narrow roads, it's not my cup of tea. But then again, I grew up in Vermont, which is a huge maple syrup producing state. The thought of fighting the crowds to see something I experienced every year growing up doesn't excite me. Besides, a lot of maple syrup nowadays is produced by reverse osmosis in those sugar shacks.

(My stepbrothers have a maple syrup production business and the technology is pretty cool. I believe the reverse osmosis results in about a 75-80% reduction in volume (but don't quote me). The final concentration is still achieved by a final boiling step.)

 

Factoid: about 40 gallons of maple sap is required to make 1 gallon of syrup.

 

Jovi

[TEC]

Wrong thread. Deleted.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

TEC (Tom)

 

Dave asked you a question......are you not replying for a reason?

[TEC]

Delta Bluez Tess -- I just got back from practice with my dog, and have been busy remodeling a bathroom. Thank you for the reminder. I just now PM'd Red Russell. Hope all is well with you. So sorry about your Tess. Are you driving to Heppner SDT this month? Maybe I'll see you and RR there. -- Kind regards, TEC

[appyridr]

The Metchosin Sheepdog Trial draws quite a few spectators, many come back every year. They clap & cheer when sheep make the panels. It is a very pastoral community with the Parry Bay flock grazing in numerous small fields & farms in the area. So some people may have a personal 'connection' with the sheep. The community assoc. does a bang up concession with all the fixin's plus lamb burgers & home made mint relish. The Buchanons haul a truck load of hay bales for seating under the shade of the Garry Oak trees. It is a spectacular setting with the beach only 5 mins. away and the Juan de Fuca Straight in the background. They also have an announcer.

cheers Lani