Confused what just happened to my BC pup... HELP !

[beachdogz]

I am not going to comment on the two-sided content of this thread, as I think it's all been covered, but I did want to say that whenever someone looks at me askance when I mention there are 8 dogs in my house right now, I am going to read this sentence and feel ok again :)/>

RDM

 

Some people can have 15 dogs and take excellent care of them and be an excellent home. Some people can have 1 dog, be a horrible dog owner, and it can be a disaster for that dog (I'm sure we all know someone who fits that description.)

 

You know there is a way around this....I forget how the saying goes:

 

If the dog sleeps in your bed, it is not counted as a dog.

If the dog rides in your car as a passenger, it is not counted as a dog.

If the dog has very short hair and requires no special grooming, don't count it since it has very little upkeep.

If the dog is under 10 pounds, it doesn't eat enough to count it as a dog.

No dog over the age of 8 is counted, as they are senior citizens.

No dog under the age of 2 is counted, as they are not yet mature dogs.

 

Using this system, one can quite easily get their numbers down. A little trick we used to use when confronted by husbands who "thought" we had too many dogs. :lol:/>

[shadow]

Was the prong collar not used?

 

J.

 

It was definitely used, I paid $20 for it, I have a check & the prong to prove it ! I was about to take a video of his first session in the pen, when I was told its not allowed, now I wish I had !

[shadow]

Any "trainer" starting a youngster in a prong collar is no real trainer. Stay very far away. I will take a pup to sheep at his age, but only to see what they do. They are much too young to take a lot of training pressure, and really any sort of training on stock involves pressure on the pup. If you had a decent trainer and well broke sheep and the pup could just go around the sheep some and change directions on the basis of the human's body pressure, that would be okay, but that doesn't sound at all like your situation. If your only choice is a substandard trainer, then waiting certainly won't harm him. Giving him bad experiences at a young age could, however, turn him off work completely.

 

That said, as trainers, we have to set boundaries on what is acceptable with respect to herding training, because training a young dog does involve a certain amount of stress and distress on stock. So, although the trainer sounds like an idiot, there is some truth in the statement that herding isn't a recreational activity--in that there needs to be some control and correct work from the dog so that the sheep (or other livestock) are not simply being used as "dog toys."

 

That may seem obvious, but I've actually had folks come out for lessons who pretty much equated a trip for lessons to going to the dog park. That is, they looked at it as just another thing their dog could do to burn off steam. I have no wish to work with those sorts of people/dogs because to me they are approaching it as fun and games and not something serious. With most other fun and games, nothing else has the potential to be harmed, but with stockwork, there are the livestock to consider, and they need to be treated with the respect due to sentient beings who don't have a real say in how they're being used. So although I do encourage people to try their dogs on stock and to train them if they so desire, I don't particularly want to work with people/dogs whose attitude is that it's all about the fun. Because it's not necessarily fun for the livestock. (Note: I'm not saying that this is your attitude, but it may well be what the trainer was trying to convey. Hard to believe that they would show sense in that regard when they clearly have no real sense about how to properly start a puppy, but I guess wonders never cease.)

[ETA: I see that Vicki stated the above much more succinctly while I was writing this missive....]

 

As for neutering, I'd wait, unless you have a compelling reason to neuter early (i.e., you must use doggy daycare). It might be helpful to have a good discussion with your vet regarding the pros and cons and your concerns about some of the things your pup is doing. I don't think early neuter will change things like marking behavior, but I would want to know about prolonged erections (though a neutered male can still have an erection, so it might not make a difference in that regard either).

 

As for everything else, you just need to go back to the basics. As others have said, his hormones are starting to flow and he's reaching his adolescent period. He will test you, so you just need to be prepared and be willing to back up and start over when he seems to forget his previous training.

 

J.

 

He was in a small pen with goats and not cow !

[shadow]

For clarification for members...

In no way was this post supposed to be about herding or the trainer....

 

It was primarily for me to understand what I can do to better my puppy's experience & improve my relationship with him.

In no way I intend to bash anyone or their methods, everyone has their own way of doing things. I only needed advice on what I could do better & get reassurance on what I was doing was right !!!

 

Thank you, and I apologize if I may have hurt anyone with anything said !

[beachdogz]

I never said he was around cow, some people assumed & I didnt get a chance to respond to that.

 

 

 

• He didn’t want to chase cars or get hyper when he saw cars, but we took him herding this weekend and that has changed his attitude towards a moving car. The herding trainer was not good, and he didn’t have a good experience.She put him on a prong collar, he cried, she smacked him with a rake - no he wasnt harming the cattle - she just has issues with the breeder we got him from.

 

 

This is why people keep talking about cows...it's from the original post.

[shadow]

This is why people keep talking about cows...it's from the original post.

 

 

Ok my apologies... better word should have been livestock ! I apologize for that, was a mistake

[shadow]

For clarification for members...

In no way was this post supposed to be about herding or the trainer....

 

It was primarily for me to understand what I can do to better my puppy's experience & improve my relationship with him.

In no way I intend to bash anyone or their methods, everyone has their own way of doing things. I only needed advice on what I could do better & get reassurance on what I was doing was right !!!

 

Thank you, and I apologize if I may have hurt anyone with anything said !

 

Eventually got the brains & removed the whole herding section off, didnt know that is what everyone would start focusing on. Learnt a lesson !!

 

But thank you for those who actually gave me advice on the real situation, got CU & have already started reading it !!

[olivehill]

I'm so confused. If you didn't want a prong collar used on your dog why did you buy one?

[shadow]

I'm so confused. If you didn't want a prong collar used on your dog why did you buy one?

 

Coz a renowned person in their field got the collar put it on my dog & said thats the way it was done, explained that its better than his normal nylon collar, and to trust them as they knew what they were doing.

 

I was like a person who knows nothing about a computer & goes to best buy to get one, you trust what the person is telling you & if the person is the best sales person and is telling you thats the best thing & saying why its safe, you wont doubt it.

 

Till you go home & do your research only to find out what the product is. Thats what happened to me, I just didnt know any better ! No knowledge about the different collars, etc.

[Laurae]

It is pretty rude, in my opinion, to edit out parts of an original post asking for help after people have commented on it. It seems like perhaps you don't like the answers you're getting so you are changing the post to hide something. At least make a note in the original post to let people know you've edited its content.

[shadow]

Hi,

 

So we have a 5.5 month old BC male puppy. We got him when he was 3 months old, its been not too long. He trains great, as in tricks, commands etc, BUt he has a mind of his own. He was doing great, until last week, he has sexually matured and his neutering is scheduled for right when he turns 6 months. But recently he has developed few issues that have me concerned

 

• He used to walk on a loose leash until last week, till I don’t know what happened this week that he has just forgotten it all. since he has seen the rabbits in the neighborhood... Loose leash walking is non-existent.

 

• He didn’t want to chase cars or get hyper when he saw cars, but we took him herding this weekend and that has changed his attitude towards a moving car.

 

• He does great in a controlled environment with his commands (like home, training center etc), but the minute we are out on a walk or dog park, yes he will sit on command, but he is not focused on me. Its almost that I don’t exist in the outside world. Once we just left him at the dog park and walked away and he didn’t care, he kept getting a ball giving it to someone else to throw.

 

 

I have tried to go back to teaching him on a loose leash, tried to calm him, nothing has worked. I have used a squirt bottle to get his attention and get him to stop that does work for that very second, but I don’t want to over-use it.

 

Please HELP and suggest what I may do, I have a "dog behaviorist" here in the city but he charges $350 and with his neutering etc and my husband loosing his job, I cant afford it at present !

 

Thank you in advance !!

 

Eventually got the brains & removed the whole herding section off, didnt know that is what everyone would start focusing on. Learnt a lesson !!

 

But thank you for those who actually gave me advice on the real situation, got CU & have already started reading it !!

[Jeri Jessee]

Was the prong collar not used?

 

Yes but for reasons unrelated to working livestock which I will not go into out of respect for the OP. It was offered up as a suggestion, not a mandate; I was standing there when it was put on the dog. I also saw/heard the explanation/demonstration of the purpose and proper usage including not jerking on the dog and not keeping tension on the leash.

 

During a lesson a cotton long line is attached to a dog's regular collar, not the pinch collar.

[juliepoudrier]

It is pretty rude, in my opinion, to edit out parts of an original post asking for help after people have commented on it. It seems like perhaps you don't like the answers you're getting so you are changing the post to hide something. At least make a note in the original post to let people know you've edited its content.

Agreed.

 

Alishaa,

We all answered your original post in good faith. Because you have edited it, it now looks like a bunch of us went of on a tangent all on our own. Doing that sort of thing is a sure way to get people to stop responding to your questions.

 

J.

[shadow]

Agreed.

 

Alishaa,

We all answered your original post in good faith. Because you have edited it, it now looks like a bunch of us went of on a tangent all on our own. Doing that sort of thing is a sure way to get people to stop responding to your questions.

 

J.

 

I am sorry, in no way did I want to be disrespectful to anyone, or rude, the intention of removing that was the conversation was becoming non-productive. Julie, I respect your advice and the others advice, I did add it back in so if people read the post it does not sound tangent, I did write it as I previously had it written with any personal opinion of the trainer.

 

As I say again the intention was only to get advice on what I could do better. And not hurt anyone or be non-productive.

[shadow]

It is pretty rude, in my opinion, to edit out parts of an original post asking for help after people have commented on it. It seems like perhaps you don't like the answers you're getting so you are changing the post to hide something. At least make a note in the original post to let people know you've edited its content.

 

I added it back in - I didnt realize I was being rude ! apologies !!

[Eileen Stein]

Coming to this late, it reads like a simple misunderstanding to me. The OP had some concerns about her dog's behavior (leash walking, lack of attention to her) that she specified, and asked for help with. She mentioned the herding lesson incidentally, just in case it might bear on why the dog has recently become less responsive to her. She didn't say a prong collar was used while the dog was on livestock, just that a prong collar was used. She didn't identify the trainer. She was probably surprised that there was so much focus on the herding lesson and herding trainer by those who responded, whereas from the other side of the Great Divide it's only natural that folks giving advice would focus on that. Then she edited her first post to try to focus it more on what her real questions were, trying to correct what had begun to seem like a mistake, with no disrespect intended.

 

So maybe at this point we could just focus on her questions?

 

Alishaa, my first reaction was the same as most of the others who've posted. Your pup is young, at an age when a pup's horizons are naturally widening -- when he's becoming more aware of all the possibilities around him, and is driven to pursue them. Look at it from his point of view -- why wouldn't he take more interest in what's around him than in familiar old you? There comes a time when human kids do that, don't they? If you follow through with training and working with him, that will gradually shape him into a good dog, with proper regard for your very major place in his world. It will just happen. Patient, consistent training builds a relationship.

 

Also any suggestion on how I can handle the rabbit situation ? The rabbit comes in the yard & is around his toys, so when this guy goes out and sniffs that the rabbit was there, he is all charged up to just find the rabbit on his walk at night.

 

Well, if the yard is fenced and the dog can go out loose at night, he may take care of the rabbit situation all by himself. If not, what the CU book would probably tell you to do is to give the dog lots of treats when you see him sniffing the rabbit's scent, so that gradually he will come to associate the smell of rabbit with something good coming from you, and will immediately switch his focus to you when he smells the rabbit so he can get his treat. I think so anyway -- I have to say that, while I have heard people describe good things in the CU approach, I have found both of the books so poorly organized that it's very hard to follow them. But maybe that's just me, and you'll find them easy to follow -- I hope so.

 

In any case, as everybody else said, just hang in there and keep working with your dog.

[Gloria Atwater]

... And now I feel like I should offer someone an apology.

 

So, given that I totally misunderstood the original situation, I hereby apologize to whomever I may have slandered (or is it libel?) by responding so harshly to what I mis-perceived as the actions of an unusually cruel and harsh stockdog trainer. I am sorry to have spoken so strongly without knowing the facts.

Respectfully submitted,

 

Gloria

 

 

Oh, Alishaa, that "trainer" - and I use the word loosely - must have been a total idiot. Anyone who would put a prong collar on a 5 month old puppy and uses a garden rake to whack dogs as a training aid is a twit. :blink:/> That is NOT what good border collie trainers do. That's what people who don't really have the skills to work with dogs do. From here on, listen to your gut when it comes to trainers. If it feels wrong, it IS wrong. The sad fact is, anybody can call themselves a trainer and believe me, there is a world of difference.