Do you crate your adult BC when you leave for work?

[Liz P]

What about car travel? Are crates allowed then? Are kennel runs ok? How do you manage litters of pups without being able to put them in a pen?

[ChantalB]

I crate or confined to bedroom. Within the last year he has has 1 time gotten into laundry basket, eat underwear and cost me over 2000$ of trying to diagnose why he got so sick and fixing him, and a month ago he got poisoned getting into only god knows what only god knows where. He was unsupervised for maybe an hour in the house. It was dog proofed too...Although that could of been on our walk. It's a scary mystery. It was very scary thinking he was dying. It's not worth the risk of his life.

 

Is it actually illegal somewhere to crate dogs, that ridiculous. Sometimes its the safest way, and honestly I video tape my dog for at least a month everytime i move (seperation anxiety, getting used to a new house, lets me know how he is.) and he usually always just sleeps anyway when I'm gone. He gets enough work and exercise, love and attention when I home, and has a very busy life, I think its fair that sometimes he stays in a crate, its oversized anyway.

 

He's 4 by the way, ust started maturing this last year from puppy to dog, I think this guy will never get the run of the house.

[ChantalB]

it is illegal here in Sweden to keep your dog in a crate. Even for just a minute. So no, I never leave my dogs in crates. I never had to, and I never will. (I hope) Perhaps I'm just lucky. But my dogs (Border collie and shelties) have never chewed on furniture. Thank god for that.

 

Crates in cars ? What do you do with an injured high energy dog that needs confined rest ? Where do you keep dogs when you trial ? Potty training is so much easier with crates, i find them to provide the clearest criteria to a dog, that sucks for you guys.... What about a natural disaster and you need to bring your d og to a shelter, school gym to evacuate and whatever to be safe with you, those are ideal then, maybe even nesessary. Whats the government expect people to do, throw un crate trained dogs in small pens, or crates without training beforehand because its illegal....

 

I think crates are safe and essential really if used correctly and trained. It's absurd they are illegal..Unfortunate by product of people abusing tools (crates) ruining it for the rest of us ? Or animal rights gone a little too far ?

 

You know what, I love crates! They provide a familiarity and consistancy when were away. At someone elses house, at a trial, when you put enough work into crate training, it becomes a haven for the dog. A second home and something of their own you can bring anywhere with you. It provides a routine and reassurance in an unknown environment. And safety.

[Sue R]

We never crated anything until we got Celt, but I had also been a stay-at-home mother for most of my adult life, or we were able to keep pups with us when we were graduate students.

 

When we got Megan, she was crate-trained - and you could tell the crate had been used as a default because she was sausage-shaped and her tail was bare, either from thumping it on the crate sides or (more likely) from a bad habit of pulling hair from it. But she loved her crate and, having two young and active dogs in the house during some seasons when I worked, we also crate-trained Celt, but did not crate the dogs when we were at work because they did not need it.

 

When we got a third, a pup, we crate-trained him and, with three dogs that liked to rough-house and play, we began using the crates while we were both gone to work. And, with Bute's digestive issues (partly genetic and maybe partly due to puppy parasite loads), crating was a way to save the carpet and furniture when the poor boy had his "episodes" of digestive distress.

 

Now, having certain problems arising from one dog with regards to another, we separate Celt and Megan from Dan when we are going to be out of the house (further than in the yard). And, because Megan is a busy-body who will get on furniture to bark hysterically out the window, Ed prefers her crated when no one is home. And because Dan and Megan can get pretty darn rowdy, we like them separated when we are both gone.

 

So, we crate Celt and Megan, who are both quite happy with and content in their crates, and leave Dan loose in another room with baby gates between. Like a hound dog, he spends the day asleep on the sofa. This works for us. We operate on the premise of "better safe than sorry", and none of the dogs seem any the worse for that.

 

Never using crates? What about car/truck travel? Time spent at the vet? Rest and recuperation from injury/surgery? Emergency travel/evacuation/situations? Crate-training isn't just for when you are not home with your animal(s) or a potty-training aid. It's preparation for the expected and for the unexpected.

[bc friend]

My two personal dogs have run of the house at virtually all times. The foster dogs (usually have 3 or 4) are crated when I am at work and it depends on the dog's behavior whether it is crated or loose overnight.

[Emelie M]

We can only have our dogs in crates in the car , and when we are on competitions. (but then they have to go out every second hour if i remember it correctly)

And when I meant crate I meant "with a floor, walls and a roof". Like a smaller crate that you have in a car. If you need to have a crate in your house, the "animal police" recommend you to take away the door. (with means, its impossible to "keep" the dog in it)

You may seperate rooms with gates, but even then (if you would get unexpected visits from the "animal police" (I dont know how to translate it into english) they will get suspicious and questioning (actually happened a friend of mine when the inspector came for a visit when he saw she had some compost grids leaning by a wall).

 

You may of course have a kennel. But have to check the dogs every 5th hour. (its a law that says that we can only leave our dogs alone for a maximum 5 hours = very hard for many people to get or keep a dog if you want to follow the law)

 

So... well... I grew up with all of these laws. So it's not so wierd to me. But I am usually training my pups right from the start to feel comfy in a crate. Just because we travel a lot and so on. We do most of that training when we are on competitions or at the training areas.

 

We havn't had a natural disaster for.. I don't know. (Never?) We have had a cold winter, a smaller storm, but not a big disaster. Yet. Think the laws probably have to change if it's necessary.

[Emelie M]

Just have to say - im not against crates at all. My dogs love their crates, and I see a lot of good things in it. The laws were written when people had their dogs in the crates day in and day out.. Some people was abusing crates, ruining it for the rest of us. I guess. So now we can't use crates. Even if we have a dog that's tearing down the house. They just say: get someone to take care of your dog while you are gone.

[juliepoudrier]

Wow, I can't imagine Americans tolerating officials coming into their houses to see if there are crates, with or without doors. The funny thing is that I'd rather have a dog crated IN the house (especially during the winter months or if there's a chance of storms in the summer) then out in the weather in a kennel run. Who's going to know if anyone lets the dogs out every 2 or 5 hours anyway? Crazy.

 

Emelie,

Are there any exceptions for dogs who need to be crated for medical reasons? For example, one of my working dogs had biceps tendonitis and a possible partial biceps tendon detachment. He required strict crate rest and walking only on leash. What do y'all do in such situations? He was absolutely not supposed to run through the house or make any lateral movements, period. I did let him out and on leash with me if I was just sitting around, but if I couldn't have him on leash with me, he had to be in his crate.

 

J.

[Mdaniels]

Bennie is not crated but he and our greyhound are separated by a baby gate. I don't want to risk a snarky fight. Bennie is a book chewer too, BTW, and likes to shred paper. I do wear him out with a good game of catch at 5:30 am ( thank you glow in the dark chuck-it) and , now, DH is retired, so they have company

 

(DH isn't crated either, ha ha)

[Sue R]

Just have to say - im not against crates at all. My dogs love their crates, and I see a lot of good things in it. The laws were written when people had their dogs in the crates day in and day out.. Some people was abusing crates, ruining it for the rest of us. I guess. So now we can't use crates. Even if we have a dog that's tearing down the house. They just say: get someone to take care of your dog while you are gone.

Understood. Too bad it is a frequent occurence that people abusing ________ (fill in the blank) ruins it for the rest of us.

 

Under your country's laws, we could not have a dog as we are gone for a 8 to 10 hour day on the days that we both work. Many single working adults and working couples would not be able to have a dog under those laws. It is not only an example of people abusing something (like crates) ruining it for everyone (including responsible people) but also an example of draconian measures to try and control a problem. Enough said.

[BCjetta]

I think crating really depends on the dog.

With my old BC, even from a puppy she never chewed anything. I was still paranoid and kept her in an x-pen when we were not home until she was about 2 or 3. Then she was allowed to be loose. Our second dog, an aussie, was crated when we were not home up until he was about 5 (however we started leaving him loose locked in the bedroom when he was 3ish). He was a bit more anxious when we'd leave the house and would chew things if he found them. He had to have a wire crate because he'd knock over the x-pen. My youngest dog who is now 2 is still in the x-pen when left alone and crated at night. I don't foresee giving her freedom any time soon since she recently chewed the leg on my wooden futon frame so it looks like a beaver was gnawing on it (this is when hubby was home and was "watching" the dogs. She is a lot more busy than the other 2 and doesn't like to settle down as easily as either of them. I think its just a difference in personality since we had all 3 from puppies.

[RichardH]

I crate Ness at night for sleeping and when I leave for 1-4hr errands and can't take her in the car. She has a car crate as well. When I'm home, she's allowed to roam free and she generally comes to work with me where she roams around or chews her toys quietly under the desk. She's still just too chew happy at 10 months - everything must be eaten or chewed on at least a little. I need to be there to correct it. When she goes in the crate, it's lights out sleeping almost immediately, but I leave her with toys and water. If I'm gonna be gone all day and she can't come, it's daycare or a friend's place. I think his might change as she gets older, but it's just about trust and not doing dangerous chewing on wires/housing bits.

 

-Rich

[wildo]

Just wanted to say thanks everyone for your stories. They really sound no different than any other breed- which for my case, is a good thing.

[gtokitty]

I've crated my GSD (who is now 3 going to be 4 in June) when I got him when he was a puppy when we were not home. Ruger our BC (Who is going to be 3 in March) he used to be crated when he was small also. When we left we would leave one or the other out after almost a year. Ruger then started with massive diarrhea all over himself, the cage, drooling all kinds of crazy things just out of the blue one day. (he had always gotten car sick and drooled in the car) So after he started doing that in the crate we tried all different things to make him more relaxed in it. But we always came home to a poop covered dog, slob all over, stinky house. So no more of that, after about 5 times it gets old really fast. (that was not even two weeks)

 

Only he and my one GSD stay out together. Ruger has gotten into it with that GSD a few times but only during exciting circumstances. Games, people over or trying to take excitement away, playing with toys. On their own they are fine. They stay outside fine, inside fine, we've video taped them when we were away and they were fine. Ruger will go downstairs Yrie will stay up here. Charlie on the other hand (he is another 2 year old GSD I rescued in August last year. I can't leave him under any circumstance alone with these two other boys when we go away. I would not trust it and I wouldn't want to see what would happen either. They could very well be fine. Charlie has some genetic and physical deformities and the other dogs pick up on that very easily and simply try to "cull" him out of the family. "pack" whichever you like to use.

 

Yrie also busted two of his teeth chewing on his crate door. That was another reason why he stopped being kenneled..... He is a Working Line GSD and I did show him (he did miserably because he isn't "angulated" oh well!! Rather have a dog that could do the job he was meant to do 100 years ago!) so the broken teeth was kinda not what I wanted to have.... that and the bills it costs to fix them if they need it.....

 

A border wasn't my first choice..... my bf really wanted one and we have been together for 10 years prior to me getting Ruger for his birthday (he did all his reacearch and was asking for 10 years but we at that time had already had two dogs). He is registered with the ABCA (American Border collie Association?) He has amazing drive, determination, very ball focused, willing to please, comical, protective, I call him the energizer bunny, if he gets knocked down he just keeps going and going!!!

[gtokitty]

also to add Ruger chewed up any wires he could reach..... my computer speakers, coax cables, antenna cables, plugs off the end of any wire that wasn't plugged in, phone chargers.... I'm sure there is more I'm just forgetting!! he was SOOO destructive with chewing!

[Cynthia P]

We have 14; 11 of our border collies, one we are training, and two mini schnauzers. Three of the border collies are loose in the house (3, 7, 11); The rest are crated; The minis will mark in the house so they are never left for any length of time in the house and they are definately my most hyper. Others are reliable in the house except for maybe a bit of table jumping etc.

 

Again, with that many, it is either crating or kennel runs and we don't have a secure outside yard set up yet. But we will when finances allow.

 

When we had our Giant Schnauzers they were almost always loose in the house. They could be crated but generally weren't...but that was when we only had 5 dogs

 

So, some is personal preference, and others are out of management!

 

Cynthia

[alligande]

My two are not crated in the house. The younger one was crated during the day untill he was 18 months. I do crate foster dogs when they first arrive, occasionally they to will earn the trust to be out. Both dogs are crate trained and are happy to spend time in them at agility trials.

 

Regarding the breed being crazy, I honestly think they are better house companions than many breeds. Obviously training plays a role in this but I can honestly say that very few of my friends have dogs that ignore food on the coffee table, lay nicely on their beds through a dinner party and just not be pests. On the flip side they are much more demanding of our time and involvement in keeping them entertained. Mine are urban dogs not country dogs.

[mum24dog]

Most of ours (7 in total) are crated while we're away from the house. The way I look at it if a dog is fine being crated all night then it should be able to handle crating during the day for the same number of hours.

 

Not the same thing at all.

 

Night time is for sleeping - daytime for activity. If I'm busy elsewhere in the house my dogs don't just sleep. They take naps, they relax, they get up for a stroll round, they have a little play with each other, go out for a pee, look out of the window, whatever they feel like doing.

 

Just because you may spend 8 hours in bed at night, does that mean that you would be equally happy to be obliged to spend the same amount of time in bed during the day with nothing to do? No TV, no books, no bathroom visits, no way of seeing what is going on in the world outside - just lying there waiting long hours for someone to allow you to get up?

 

People get away with crating dogs for long periods because dogs like routine and are generally pretty cooperative but it doesn't make it right.

 

What if your dog tips up its water or just runs out, especially on a hot day? What if you're unavoidably delayed and can't get home?

 

I have 5 dogs, 2 of which hate each other, but they don't need to be crated when I'm out. There is a gate across the hall and 2 are kept in the front of the house, 3 in the back. It's a minor inconvenience once used to it and has the benefit of making sure they don't rush the front door when someone comes.

 

I have crated those going through a chewing phase if I needed to go out but if I'm going to be out all day and they would be left alone I take them to the kennels for the day. I appreciate that not everyone will have the convenience of being able to do that.

 

If I went out to work regularly I would either not have a dog or have fewer and arrange for them to be exercised during the day. I can have 5 because I rarely have to leave them for long. I thought about my life style before I got them.

[mum24dog]

Just have to say - im not against crates at all. My dogs love their crates, and I see a lot of good things in it. The laws were written when people had their dogs in the crates day in and day out.. Some people was abusing crates, ruining it for the rest of us. I guess. So now we can't use crates. Even if we have a dog that's tearing down the house. They just say: get someone to take care of your dog while you are gone.

 

I live in the UK and wish that there was more enforcement of the animal welfare laws we do have. We don't have fixed do's and dont's in the matter of crates as you do but anyone leaving a dog unattended in a crate for 8-10 hours runs the tisk of someone reporting them to the RSPCA followed by a visit, and in some cases prosecution.

 

I do think there is something to be said for an approach which forces people to be responsible dog owners, but it wouldn't go down well here as we don't have a great track record of accepting anyone trying to order us around. I can't imagine being told how many or what size dogs I may own as seems to happen in the US, and I can't imagine being restricted to dog parks to exercise my dogs as some people complain.

 

People can be lazy (including me) and I freely admit that I don't try as hard to make my dogs as perfectly behaved as I would have to if I lived in Switzerland, for example. If I had to I would though, just as I would learn to manage without crates in the house if they were banned. It's an easy option to put a dog in a crate rather than deal with the issue that makes it necessary.

 

Crates do have their valid uses and I wouldn't be pleased if I didn't have the option to use them, but there are many more occasions when people use them for convenience rather than necessity, and I'm as guilty as anyone of doing that, just not to the same degree as some. My cut of point of how long I will leave a dog in a cage is much lower than some people on here.

[Pipedream Farm]

All perfectly logical arguments when one starts with anthropomorphism of dogs.

Just because you may spend 8 hours in bed at night, does that mean that you would be equally happy to be obliged to spend the same amount of time in bed during the day with nothing to do? No TV, no books, no bathroom visits, no way of seeing what is going on in the world outside - just lying there waiting long hours for someone to allow you to get up?

Mark Billadeau

[DeltaBluez Tess]

Tess, Nan and Rain are loose in the house. Maid is crated when we leave as she loves to jump on the counter to look at the sheep and explore Most of the time the hubby is home so crating doesn't happen. If for some reason we are gone more than 6 hrs, we put them in the barn kennels. The dogs are loose all the time, aside from when we have to crate Maid. When we do come home, we find out the dogs had made themselves home on the bed....mainly the pillows....

[juliepoudrier]

What if your dog tips up its water or just runs out, especially on a hot day? What if you're unavoidably delayed and can't get home?

This argument could apply to uncrated dogs as well. I can't speak for Mark, but if I'm unavoidably delayed and can't get home I call my landlord, friends, neighbors, whatever so someone can go let the dogs out for me. In fact, if I know I'm working a long shift, I'll take the three most problematic with me (it's an animal emergency hospital, so they can be accommodated), but for them it's really more about needing meds at specific times than where they're actually located, crate or not.

 

I don't think you can force anyone to be a responsible dog owner. I have seen dogs who are in runs or larger fenced areas who certainly aren't getting any sort of real care or interaction from their owners, but because they have a larger area to roam they are somehow better off in many people's minds. People who CARE about their dogs, even if they have to crate them for 8 hours during the day, make sure that the times the dogs aren't crated are full of quality human interaction. So when people make judgments about how others manage their dogs, they might also consider what's being done with those dogs during non-crated times. I can assure you that there are dogs whose lives are very poor indeed, even though they're never crated (and vice versa).

 

As always, generalizations and assumptions about other peoples' situations and management styles will lead to mistaken beliefs about the welfare/happiness of the animals in question.

 

I find it rather sad that people in Sweden, for example, are so limited in how they can have dogs, which means probably that many people who would like to have a dog and probably would be wonderful owners are unable to do so.

 

I remember one small town I lived in wanted to tackle the stray/outdoor cat problem by limiting the number of cats one could own. I had more than the proposed number, but my cats were indoor cats and so weren't contributing to the problem the ordnance was going to "fix." Why should I, a responsible, caring pet owner be required to let someone into my home to count my cats?

 

And yet, unspeakable cruelties happen on a regular basis, while authorities are worrying about whether someone's dog has been in a crate 4 hours or 6 hours. That's what's really sad.

 

J.

[Sue R]

What Julie said.

[katenjim]

I don't crate my adult dogs. All my dogs were crate trained as puppy's and at night. Around 6 months they are given free access to the house with supervision. Eventually, when fully trusted, without. I've left puppies in the kitchen while at work during the day with access to a crate. I'd come home at lunch for feeding, walk, play and then crated 2 hours till I came home. "I" never felt comfortable crating a puppy or adult dog all day unless recuperating from illness or surgery. I've had several adult females at one time and I managed them while away without a crate. I know my dogs would hate being crated all day. That's just my opinion.

[Mark Billadeau]

Night time is for sleeping - daytime for activity.

This is your schedule which your dogs have accepted; this does not mean it is THE ideal schedule for dogs. Take for example regions where the daytime temps exceed 100F; now the ideal schedule may be inactivity during the day and activity while it's cool. Would you consider someone who works the night shift cruel because their dogs are active at night and inactive during the day?

 

What if your dog tips up its water or just runs out, especially on a hot day? What if you're unavoidably delayed and can't get home?

This can be managed by using a 1.5 gal SS bucket attached to the inside of each dog's crate with a snap. If a dog needs more than 1.5 gal of water in 8hrs while at rest, that dog needs to see a vet.