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I am getting a new BC in about a week! She is a red merle cutie! I had thought about breeding her with a chocolate and white tri. What colors would come from that litter?

is a link to see a video of my new pup! Her name is AnnaBelle.

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Wow, you've not even gotten the pup yet and you're already planning future litters? :blink: I'm sure your breeder can advise you on color breeding.

 

J.

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The little dog with the speckles that appeared to take issue with the camera and then left the kennel, was that their dam?

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I am getting a new BC in about a week! She is a red merle cutie! I had thought about breeding her with a chocolate and white tri. What colors would come from that litter?

is a link to see a video of my new pup! Her name is AnnaBelle.

 

Dear new person ~

 

I don't even know what a 'chocolate tri' border collie is. I presume you mean some shade of red? Please be advised that, on this forum, breeding for color is a huge red flag and universally frowned upon. The border collie should be bred for its working ability, because to breed for anything else is to distort the breed, dilute the traits which make it the world's premier stock-working dog, and remove it even further from its origins and purpose.

 

To quote from the forum link given you, above:

"For the good of the breed, border collies should be bred only for working ability. The border collie breed was created by farmers and shepherds who wanted to develop a dog which could help them manage their livestock. They bred only to produce good workers, and that singleness of purpose created the breed we love. Changing the way border collies are bred will change the breed itself. Therefore, breeding dogs who have not proven themselves as useful herding dogs, or breeding for appearance/color, or breeding for sports or for "good pets," or breeding for anything other than working ability (which includes the health and temperament necessary for working) is harmful to the breed."

 

(Underline is by me.)

 

If you are not a breeder, I would advise that you educate yourself extensively about the history and heritage of the border collie, and the genetics that go into making a good working dog. If you *are* a breeder, I must frown upon your intent to breed a border collie with your first interest being in its color.

 

Best of luck with your very cute pup. I'm sure she'll be quite lovely. But please, for the love of border collies, don't breed for color.

 

~ Gloria

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Best of luck with your very cute pup. I'm sure she'll be quite lovely. But please, for the love of border collies, don't breed for color.

 

~ Gloria

To reiterate, don't buy a pup bred for color; don't breed for color; and don't even be considering breeding at all, because you would be breeding for all the wrong reasons.

 

The "Read This First" lays it out plainly and simply. And if you wanted to breed to have another dog/pup, there are hundreds available through shelters and (better yet) reputable Border Collie rescues throughout the United States. Some of them are even listed in the Rescue and Adoption section here.

 

You may also want to search on past topics concerning these concepts.

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Ok, I am NOT breeding her for color. This pup is a full sister to a dog that I already have. The BC I got from this breeder last time (this pup has the same parents) is a Great BC that is very athletic, VERY fast, Small, and has great herding instinct. I did not chose this male because of his color. (Chocolate and White Tri)

What I really was wondering was, would any black and white or blue merles come from this litter?

 

PS. Yes, the dog with all the freckles on her face is the dam.

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]Please read the sticky...READ THIS FIRST

 

Unless you have proven your dog has excellent herding ability, no good herding instinct leave breeding to those that are shepherding the working ability of the breed (livestock work)

 

As far as genetics and colours go; With the merle and the chocolate (red) you could get red/white, black /white, tri, merle and depends what other colours were in the background. Take a look in the search area at color breeding.

 

Please, unless are working livestock at a skilled level, and the dog is outstanding on many levels, leave the breeding to working breeders

 

Cynthia

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Ok, I am NOT breeding her for color. This pup is a full sister to a dog that I already have. The BC I got from this breeder last time (this pup has the same parents) is a Great BC that is very athletic, VERY fast, Small, and has great herding instinct. I did not chose this male because of his color. (Chocolate and White Tri)

So what are you hoping to produce by breeding? Small, fast flyball dogs? In pretty colors?

 

And when you say your current dog has "great herding instinct" what exactly does that mean?

 

Frankly, if people aren't breeding for work, I'd prefer they leave herding out of it all together and just admit that they're breeding for something else.

 

And I still can't believe you'd be considering breeding a pup you haven't even gotten home yet. Owning a full sibling doesn't somehow guarantee that the two dogs will be the same.

 

I'm not trying to offend you, but as others have said, you should read the "Read this First" sticky that's at the top of each section in this forum. If you did that and then spent any time reading threads about breeding, you'd have a better understanding of why people are dismayed that you would be considering breeding. I know the opinions expressed on this forum won't stop a determined breeder, but it would be nice if you could read the "Read this First" so you'd have a better understanding of the point of view of this forum.

 

J.

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PS. Yes, the dog with all the freckles on her face is the dam.

 

 

From a working standpoint that would be alarming to me, it seems like she bugged out when she felt pressure. If that was the case and she has that inherent tendency it would be something I would be looking for in the pups. IMO, the tendency to not hold pressure is genetic and tends to inhibit the dog from acheiving reliability on livestock without alot of extra work and training on behalf of the owner.

 

A dog that does not hold pressure can often be titled and gets along pretty well on well dogged livestock in controlled situations, their flanks may seem wonderfully square, but to someone more expirenced the dog will be flanking off pressure. They can be pretty easy to hold off livestock but may fairly miserable when faced with stock that needs to be confronted or when pressure is needed to hold the livestock together and move them as a unit. Symptoms of the trait may range from a dog that gets off too big and is not willing to come close to livestock on to a dog that reaches a certain pressure point and can't help but flash in and takes chase and excitability. Getting these types to stay calm cool and collected and reliably shed and work in tight spaces may be a labor of love.

 

Anyway, there may be some that both disagree and agree with what I write above, my point is that there is alot more that goes into selecting good solid working stockdogs and broodstock then whether or not the dog has "good instincts". Good instincts are a minimum requirement and do not stand alone, from there a person decides what they breed for, color, size as you are leading to or in our case and many other working breeders a totally different list of traits that they expect their dogs to display not caring much about either color or size.

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To answer your question, you could get red and white or red merle. If the female carries tri color you might also get red tri or red merle tri.

 

You know nothing about this pup so have no idea whether she is even worth breeding (and you can't know that until she is an adult) or whether this male is a good match for her.

 

I think the odds are quite low she will be worth breeding given how rare decent merles are in the world. The vast majority come from puppy mills bloodlines.

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]Please read the sticky...READ THIS FIRST

 

Unless you have proven your dog has excellent herding ability, no good herding instinct leave breeding to those that are shepherding the working ability of the breed (livestock work)

 

As far as genetics and colours go; With the merle and the chocolate (red) you could get red/white, black /white, tri, merle and depends what other colours were in the background. Take a look in the search area at color breeding.

 

Please, unless are working livestock at a skilled level, and the dog is outstanding on many levels, leave the breeding to working breeders

 

Cynthia

 

She works my livestock. I also breed Guinea Fowl and she will herd them into the pen for me. Which is all I need from her.

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From a working standpoint that would be alarming to me, it seems like she bugged out when she felt pressure. If that was the case and she has that inherent tendency it would be something I would be looking for in the pups. IMO, the tendency to not hold pressure is genetic and tends to inhibit the dog from acheiving reliability on livestock without alot of extra work and training on behalf of the owner.

 

A dog that does not hold pressure can often be titled and gets along pretty well on well dogged livestock in controlled situations, their flanks may seem wonderfully square, but to someone more expirenced the dog will be flanking off pressure. They can be pretty easy to hold off livestock but may fairly miserable when faced with stock that needs to be confronted or when pressure is needed to hold the livestock together and move them as a unit. Symptoms of the trait may range from a dog that gets off too big and is not willing to come close to livestock on to a dog that reaches a certain pressure point and can't help but flash in and takes chase and excitability. Getting these types to stay calm cool and collected and reliably shed and work in tight spaces may be a labor of love.

 

Anyway, there may be some that both disagree and agree with what I write above, my point is that there is alot more that goes into selecting good solid working stockdogs and broodstock then whether or not the dog has "good instincts". Good instincts are a minimum requirement and do not stand alone, from there a person decides what they breed for, color, size as you are leading to or in our case and many other working breeders a totally different list of traits that they expect their dogs to display not caring much about either color or size.

 

LOL she didn't "bug out" I through her ball and she ran after it.

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To answer your question, you could get red and white or red merle. If the female carries tri color you might also get red tri or red merle tri.

 

You know nothing about this pup so have no idea whether she is even worth breeding (and you can't know that until she is an adult) or whether this male is a good match for her.

 

I think the odds are quite low she will be worth breeding given how rare decent merles are in the world. The vast majority come from puppy mills bloodlines.

I know I wouldn't breed her if she wasn't what I wanted. If she is not build how I like and doesn't have the temperament I want I wouldn't bother breeding her. My only question was IF I did what colors would I probably get from the litter.

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Also, both of these lines are proven to be great flyball dogs because they are small and fast.

I wouldn't have even thought to breed her to the dog until my breeder suggested that it would be a really nice cross and the litter would produce really nice pups.

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She works my livestock. I also breed Guinea Fowl and she will herd them into the pen for me. Which is all I need from her.

 

Hi,

 

^^ What you described above is not a high level of work.

 

If you have not done so already, please take a few moments to read the "READ THIS FIRST" post at the top of the page. It explains the main philosophy of this board.

 

Based on your posts and your screen name, your main focus seems to be on flyball and it appears that you are buying a pup bred for flyball. While this board supports all Border Collie owners who participate in a variety of activities with their dogs, be it flyball, agility, SAR, etc, the Border Collie should only be bred with the main focus of improving the breed in terms of working livestock.

 

Below I posted a video of Becca, the 2011 World Sheep Dog Champion's winning run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUnjLPeU_2A

 

This video demonstrates a high level of work. I hope that you take the time to watch it and enjoy seeing a great dog demonstrate beautifully what this breed of dog was truly bred to do.

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From a working standpoint that would be alarming to me, it seems like she bugged out when she felt pressure.

 

Not to detract from the original topic, but I wanted to address this statement.

The dog was not working sheep in the video, therefore any pressure she may have been feeling does not apply to a working stockdog. My best bred dog is very human shy and would definitely "bug out" when approached by people he either doesn't know or hasn't seen in a while. However, he does not back off pressure when working sheep no matter who is near. You can't tell how a dog will work by what it does or acts like off sheep.

Just another example. One of my other dogs is very sensitive and used to be fearful of people when he was younger. He can't handle any sort of pressure "off" sheep. When he is working he becomes a different dog. One well known handler once told me Reign could probably move anything. He was very grippy and I could not call him off when he was younger. Totally different attitude when working than when not.

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Hi,

 

^^ What you described above is not a high level of work.

 

If you have not done so already, please take a few moments to read the "READ THIS FIRST" post at the top of the page. It explains the main philosophy of this board.

 

Based on your posts and your screen name, your main focus seems to be on flyball and it appears that you are buying a pup bred for flyball. While this board supports all Border Collie owners who participate in a variety of activities with their dogs, be it flyball, agility, SAR, etc, the Border Collie should only be bred with the main focus of improving the breed in terms of working livestock.

 

Below I posted a video of Becca, the 2011 World Sheep Dog Champion's winning run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUnjLPeU_2A

 

This video demonstrates a high level of work. I hope that you take the time to watch it and enjoy seeing a great dog demonstrate beautifully what this breed of dog was truly bred to do.

I never said it was a high level of work. It's just what I need done and she does it very well.

Yes, I have already read the "READ THIS FIRST" post at the top of the page.

Yes, flyball is a large part of why I would like to breed these lines, but it is NOT the only reason. I wouldn't even think about breeding them if she does turn out to be as good as her sister.

No, this pup has not been bred for flyball.

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So what are you hoping to produce by breeding? Small, fast flyball dogs? In pretty colors?

 

And when you say your current dog has "great herding instinct" what exactly does that mean?

 

Frankly, if people aren't breeding for work, I'd prefer they leave herding out of it all together and just admit that they're breeding for something else.

 

And I still can't believe you'd be considering breeding a pup you haven't even gotten home yet. Owning a full sibling doesn't somehow guarantee that the two dogs will be the same.

 

I'm not trying to offend you, but as others have said, you should read the "Read this First" sticky that's at the top of each section in this forum. If you did that and then spent any time reading threads about breeding, you'd have a better understanding of why people are dismayed that you would be considering breeding. I know the opinions expressed on this forum won't stop a determined breeder, but it would be nice if you could read the "Read this First" so you'd have a better understanding of the point of view of this forum.

 

J.

 

The color question is just out of curiosity. it doesn't really matter I was just wondering. As for the getting small, fast, flyball dogs. That would just be a plus because is a pretty big part of my life and having dogs that are good and love doing it is a lot of fun.

 

When I said my dog has great herding instincts I mean she is great at what she does for ME. Like bringing in all of my Guineas for me. I didn't mean she was some great champ or anything. Just great for her jobs here, working on our land.

 

And like I said if she didn't turn out to be EVERYTHING I want, I would not breed her.

 

I have read the "Read This First" sticky and understand completely. I am glad there are people who are as passionate about this breed as all of you are.

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Yes, flyball is a large part of why I would like to breed these lines, but it is NOT the only reason. I wouldn't even think about breeding them if she does turn out to be as good as her sister.

 

Goodness, I hope not! We certainly wouldn't want to be putting out any substandard flyball dogs out there!

 

 

 

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What do Anabelle's parents do?

The breeder has a disability and doesn't do as much as she use to; but she still takes them to someone she knows and they are the goose control dogs. I think she also takes them to a friends house who has livestock and her friend works them.

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Goodness, I hope not! We certainly wouldn't want to be putting out any substandard flyball dogs out there!

I don't mean as good as her sister in flyball. I mean with her ability to work for me.

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