frisbeegirl Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 I watched a great pyranese this weekend. He was a rescue dog, all his litter mates died of parvo. Here is a pic of Koda Keeva keeps the horses at the barn so that I do not get mauled placing a bale of hay in the field. Koda did not like the idea that Keeva kept the horses and got between Keeva and the horses. Worked with the sheep this weekend took Koda. Keeva ran out (outrun) and brings the sheep to the grain. Just as Keeva got close to the feed troughs Koda stepped in again between the sheep and Keeva. I guess protecting the sheep. He is not mine and I will not be training him with my sheep but I would asume that when working a dog with sheep the guardian dog is put away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Depends on the dog. Some of them will allow familiar dogs to work their sheep while others don't want any dogs near their charges. ETA: I would put Koda up if you are working with the sheep. I've heard of LGDs attacking both unfamiliar BCs and humans who are messing with their sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 ^ I agree with Liz about putting Koda away while you work. Since he is not familiar with what you are doing. I have worked in places where the gaurd dogs are put up when people are working their dogs and at other places where they stay out in the field and don't cause a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 I think most folks put up the guardian dogs while training. Even if the LGD isn't actively trying to protect his sheep, they can get in the way just by being there, underfoot and gallumphing around, and that's a distraction for both you and your border collie. If an LGD knows you and knows your dogs, and is willing to just go off and take a nap while you're working or training, that's one thing. But if the LGD offers any other behavior at all, I think most people just put the rascal away. That way both you and your BC have one less thing to bother with while trying to focus. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia P Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 When we are moving sheep with our own dogs we don't put away the guard dogs. If we are training, my dogs or other peoples, we put away "most" of the guard dogs. Sometimes you just cant catch one, or it isn't feasible. My LGDs know my dogs That being said, I always catch the one that might tackle (and possibly hurt) a strange dog. My oldest female LGD doesn't bother with any dog working sheep, unless they are being bad ( ie chasing or biting) and then she runs at them and puts herself with the sheep. I have decided long ago, that I don't want the LGD to have to make a decision if it is a coyote, or a dog working. I will help them, If i am there and I am holding them, they don't need to protect the flock. If a strange dog shows up, game on. Cynthia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted November 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 Thanks, You should have seen the look that Keeva gave me when Koda tried to stop her from bringing in the sheep. She looked at me like what the .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 13, 2012 Report Share Posted November 13, 2012 I, too, leave the LGDs in if working my own dogs, but remove or tie them if working someone else's dogs. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Please don't use your dog to work or hold horses. They don't behave like "regular" livestock because they are handled so differently. It's a recipe for an injured dog. Put the horses up or tie them if they molest you when you feed. Better yet, teach them to back off. It works- just ask my pig of a QH. He stands back, or he gets fed later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Please don't use your dog to work or hold horses. They don't behave like "regular" livestock because they are handled so differently. It's a recipe for an injured dog. Put the horses up or tie them if they molest you when you feed. Better yet, teach them to back off. It works- just ask my pig of a QH. He stands back, or he gets fed later. Wow, totally missed that sentence. Never, ever work your dog on horses. That is a recipe to get someone killed! I've seen dogs with crushed skulls that messed with a horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Keeva keeps the horses at the barn so that I do not get mauled placing a bale of hay in the field. Koda did not like the idea that Keeva kept the horses and got between Keeva and the horses. Oh, good lord! I wasn't paying attention, with the similar "K" names. Please, please cease and desist using your border collie to do ANYthing with horses! I don't care how gentle or how friendly your horses are, all they have to do is have one instant of crankiness, and bang, your dog is dead or grievously injured. I knew a guy whose beloved border collie was killed by no more than a casual kick to the head. The horse was only mildly annoyed, but the kick split the dog's skull instantly. Just one instant, just one blow, and your dog's life is over. Don't do it. Please. Carry a buggy whip or something to keep the horses off you while you feed, they'll figure it out before long. But do not task your dog with that job. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Working dogs on horses is a recipe for diaster...my old chestnut mare, Emmy would let any Border Collie lift sheep off her and the dogs go underneath here....which was good training when I did cowdogs trials but if a dog nipped her, her ears would go down and she would chase them off...just enough to make a point but not hurt them.....the offending dog never did that again and believe she was a coyote killer. It was a warning run and it made a point. As long as dogs left her alone, she was fine. I have seen her run off neighbors dogs and do her best to kill them when they would sneak in to kill the sheep. My bay arab, Emma, has to be put up as she will kill any dog in her pasture that is bothering her sheep. the dog can walk all over the pasture but as soon as the dog goes after her sheep, she turns into a raging killer. I have had people want to get Border Collies to herd their horses and I will NOT sell them a dog. Use a lounge whip to keep the horse off you when you feed. It's a lot cheaper than a dead or injured dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Calm down everyone. Keeva does not work horses. The barn door is closed !!!! She just thinks she is keeping them because she can see them. I wouldn't do that to them or her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thats why we work sheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thanks for the info about the LGD,s. They really are awesome. I don't think I will need one but you never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivehill Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 It seems like even letting her think she's working horses might be a recipe for disaster though, wouldn't it? Even if they're away from her, if she thinks she's working them she may try to work them or other horses in a less controlled situation later. We've had a couple dog killing horses in the past, one was the sweetest old gelding, unless a dog annoyed him... so the risk is definitely something I wouldn't want to take. Those hooves are hard. Only takes one kick or stomp. ETA: You know your dog and horses best, just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 When I am working at another place or a trial I ALWAYS ask if either the LGD are put up or are ok....and even then If I don't know the person I am careful. At one clinic I saw a well known clinicians dog grabbed through the fence. I thought lucky to escape. I put mine up when folks come to help me, not because the dog is onery but in the way. especially when we shear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Aw, Tea, Sgt Jesus is kind of a moosh to people you introduce him to Robin, good to hear about your horses. Long ago, I boarded at a barn where the resident Border Collie was severely injured because he "worked" horses. My old mare was a dog-hater, as well, and nearly did on several loose dogs (not mine- mine are pretty much terrified of horses, and I'm okay with that. Oddly, they'll lift sheep off them.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisbeegirl Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thanks Ben, I must say Keeva is obsessed with the horses.(not afraid). She has very little contact with them. I have been kicked by a horse, a dog has no chance. I will need to move my sheep past the horses. I think it is good that Keeva and the horses are somewhat used to each other. Wait till the sheep get aload of Keeva and the horses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsADogsLyfe Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I was taking a lesson with my young dog and the sheep had just been moved into the field with the LGDs still with the flock. They eventually were taken out but before that happened, we went ahead and sent my dog and he being young and very energetic flanked all the way around full bore and smacked right into one of the LGDs. Enough to make it stagger a few feet. My dog looked mortified but the LGD just had a look on his face that seemed to show disgust for the stupid young dog. He was not aggressive with my dog, but it could have been disastrous if he had been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEC Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 My dog and I have great admiration and cautious respect for LGDs. When an unknown one gives a couple deep woof-woofs along with that characteristic "who the he** are you?" look, we take notice. Few years ago, I offered to assist my mentor/instructor move his flock from the barn across a wide field to the pens where they were kept for the day's training sessions. My intent was to drive them across, so I flanked my border collie in behind the flock just as one of his LGDs had other ideas about this strange black and white interloper. My first thought was "darn" the big dog is going to mess-up everything, and today I have only one opportunity for this drive. The LGD stepped in front of the flock and must have said "follow-me" as if the sheep were his little army, while Josie pushed from behind. From a distance, it was quite a sight...my dog seemed absolutely fine with the moving fetch to the white dog in front, as she tidied-up the rear, the LGD leading them right into the pen. No humans allowed. All I had to do was shut the gate behind. Wish I had remembered my camera. That move from barn to pens in previous months had generally involved several experienced sheepdogs, an ATV and grain bag. I like to think the LGD and my border collie had some kind of unspoken communication going on, to the effect, "C'mon, let's show them how it's done". -- TEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyceheib Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Our guard dogs, even if not in with the sheep when we go out to work them, get in with them. I think it is just their way of making sure the sheep are ok. They know if the 4 wheelers come out and there are BC's along, that the sheep will be moved. If we are just our checking on the sheep they seem to know that as well. We only lock them up when we are moving sheep around that we do not want them out with, so shearing and shipping is usually the only times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Calm down everyone. Keeva does not work horses. The barn door is closed !!!! She just thinks she is keeping them because she can see them. I wouldn't do that to them or her. Sorry. Your wording didn't paint a clear picture in my mind. I stand corrected. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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