Looking for a specific type of Border Collie mix

[Gary_and_Karen]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is not realistic to expect a no-kill shelter or rescue to find a compatible family for a confirmed biter. The liability issue is too serious to take a chance.

 

Jovi

 

.....understood, then that would make it really tough to make that decision, if that decision was made, then to find a more compatible family I guess she might have to post info online herself hoping to find someone who specializes in taking in and helping problem dogs.

[Eileen Stein]

.....an added note -

 

I really can understand your advice to Laurel, but it could still be a tough decision even if it is a decision she might consider, and if that decision was made, I'm sure it would be best to find a no-kill shelter or rescue so that at least she would know there will not be a time limit for the shelter/rescue to find a more compatible family for Ladybug.

 

Laurel said on another thread that they got Ladybug from a no-kill shelter in July. My advice was to return her to that shelter. If a good, experienced rescue would take her, that's fine too. Of course it's a tough decision. There are no good options, that's why she's so agonized.

[Gary_and_Karen]

Laurel said on another thread that they got Ladybug from a no-kill shelter in July. My advice was to return her to that shelter. If a good, experienced rescue would take her, that's fine too. Of course it's a tough decision. There are no good options, that's why she's so agonized.

 

.....understood, we all hope whatever the decision that things work out well for both Laurel and Ladybug !

[MaryP]

Oh Paula, I'd snatch him up in a heartbeat.

 

 

Me too!!

[Gary_and_Karen]

Thanks for the encouragement, it is appreciated !

Sorry to hear about Sasha, the pain does ease some as time goes on, but you still miss them so much.

I hope things work out with your current dog, perhaps her behaviour problems was from either abuse from her past or lack of love and attention from where she was before the rescue place, just continue to give her the love and attention she may have been deprived of in her past and dogs have a way of knowing you're trying to help them.

You made a good point to remember, that some dogs may be simular, but not identical, each one has their own individuality and personality and should be loved as such for who they are.

...and I understand that outward appearance alone is not enough, we need to also feel that emotional connection with them, so even though I am looking for some specific preferences, in addition to those outward preferences there also must be that emotional connection too.

 

 

 

 

Thank you as well. I am just glad to know that loving, sane, decent dog owners can feel this -- that they want the same type of dog, the same "look" and personality traits -- and it does not make you a monster to want this.

 

Yes, the pain is terrible. I only wish I could have had my precious little girl for 15 years; how lucky you were. Angel was so beautiful.

 

My current dog, Ladybug, WAS abused, at least two attacks by other dogs that put her in the hospital, plus bladder stone surgery in May, plus she was very overweight (though not anymore, at least we were able to get her down to a healthy weight with lots of exercise and good diet).

 

I do not blame THE DOG, I blame awful people who abused this poor creature.

 

The biggest thing I wish to share with you -- DO NOT GIVE UP. Don't listen to the naysayers. I'd give a million dollars to go back in time, and WAIT and the right dog was within my reach....such a pretty girl, she was only 2 and super sweet, and looked like Sasha's sister. BUT IT WAS TOO LATE, because I listened to naysayers and took a dog who was all wrong for us, and now we are stuck.

 

DO NOT GIVE UP. Wait for the right dog. It is worth a few more months, I promise you!

 

Laurel, I just read your post under another topic where you are reaching out for help for your dog and I just wanted to state for the record that everything you have tried and are still trying shows how much you care and love Ladybug reguardless of her problems. I wish I could offer specific advice on how to help your dog overcome her problems but I have no experience in that area, but my heart does go out to you and your dog, and I so hope your search will provide the answers and help you are seeking and that all turns out well for both you and Ladybug.

[Laurel962]

I would like to say that no one here has suggested anyone "settle" for anything. It was simply pointed out that sometimes the outside isn't an indication of what you are looking for, and that a really good match in personality can be over looked if a person is too focused on that certain "look."

 

 

I am sorry if I was unclear. I am new here. Obviously nobody HERE told me to "settle".

 

But people in my personal life DID tell me this. I was under a lot of pressure from my husband, he wanted a new dog and he thought basically any dog would do, and didn't want to wait for "exactly the right dog".

 

I was also in shock and very depressed, and the general wisdom I was offered said "get a new dog, it will heal your heart".

 

Also, when I got my border collie in 2001, I had just lost my first dog -- a terrible death, very sudden kidney failure at age 5. And Sasha, my border collie, just completely and utterly healed my heart and gave me so much joy for 11 years.

 

Now, maybe I was wrong to do this, but I attributed how wonderful she was (at least in part) to her breed. I'd never had nor even known a border collie before this. Only ever seen them on TV. So I was wrong to think her wonderfulness was due to her breed, and not just something magical in HER.

 

Those who say "I just don't know border collies well enough" perhaps are correct. I am not a breeder. I am not a sheep farmer. I am an ordinary person, living in the suburbs, and my circumstances do not allow more than one dog at a time. I only got my first dog (as an adult owner) in 1996! I've had 3 dogs. It would not have been possible for me to have had "dozens of border collies" to see what different personalities they all might have had.

[Laurel962]

What it makes you is someone who has had only one or two border collies.

 

 

Ellen, how could I have had MORE than 1-2 border collies? do you realize that most dog owners in the US can't have had dozens of dogs -- we don't own farms, we don't breed dogs, show dogs or run sheep! We live in cities, or suburbs. We have small houses and small backyards. We only have one, or maybe two dogs at a time.

 

 

Looks really don't matter, and don't tell you much that is worth knowing. That a different look can prove just as captivating and lovable and precious over time as the look you craved.

 

 

I apologize if I emphasized the looks thing too much. I don't have such a big problem with Ladybug's LOOKS, she is a pretty dog though she does not look much like Sasha. The problem is she BITES and GROWLS. She has already bit 4-5 people, including ME and in only 3.5 months. She was tossed out of training with a licensed dog behaviorial trainer.

 

Now -- you cannot honestly say that looks and personality do not matter, if so you would not be a border collie owner. You'd get some Heinz 57 mixed breed at the pound and be plenty happy it was a dog.

 

 

Laurel, please take Ladybug back to the shelter. Dogs are more sensitive to your feelings than you probably can realize. At this point, it's evident that you bitterly resent this dog and what having her has done to your life.

 

 

Sadly I really hoped that being a BC forum, you guys would understand my dilemma more clearly. I CANNOT TAKE HER BACK OR REHOME HER.

 

SHE IS A BITER.

 

If I return her to the shelter I got her from, she will either A. live out her life in a steel cage, alone -- they can't place her again, knowing she bites because she is a LEGAL LIABILITY....

 

or B. they will euthanize her.

 

And I cannot give her away either, because of the same legal liability. Did you ever deal with a BITING DOG? do you have any idea what would happen to me if she BIT A CHILD? and disfigured them?

 

But the dog certainly senses your feelings regardless of how you may try to conceal them from her, and that does not bode well for a positive outcome with her. (I know that you love her too, and no doubt she senses that love also, but that just makes it worse -- your feelings are conflicted and incoherent, and dogs seek clarity and respond badly to incoherence.) Right now you feel paralyzed, desperate, STUCK, with no acceptable alternative open to you.

 

 

Because there is no acceptable alternative, and I can't put her down, or leave her to rot away for 8 or 9 more years in a cage.

 

Also: I've lived with this dog now for almost 4 months. She is as happy as a pig in mud. She is not conflicted at all. She ADORES us and follows me around the house like a shadow. The guilt is terrible.

[Laurel962]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is not realistic to expect a no-kill shelter or rescue to find a compatible family for a confirmed biter. The liability issue is too serious to take a chance.

 

 

Jovi, thank god somebody understands.

 

Thank you.

 

It is not easy giving up a dog. I guess people hear my words and think I am b*tch who wants to return a good dog, because the markings on her fur are not precisely the same as my old dog. That is NOT the case.

 

If I COULD HAVE returned Ladybug, it would have had to have been in the first two weeks, or month at the absolute outset. She did not show these biting and growling behaviors then! Like many shelter dogs, she was very meek and shy the first several weeks.

 

After she got comfortable here, then she started behaving like her true self.

 

I have read about this problem, of course it is worse with shelter dogs and ADULT shelter dogs above all else.

 

In trying to deal with this, I did a little research on her background -- of course very little is known, but I got her medical records, and enough to know the shelter either LIED TO US or honestly did not know her true history and personality.

 

 

As Jovi correctly states: LEGALLY AND MORALLY I cannot give Ladybug to someone else, knowing she is a biter. My god, what if she hurt a child? and people today would be happy to sue me blind for this.

 

Sure I could probably lie and get her into a shelter here in town (she is from across the state, not easy to get her back IF they would take her), but then what????

[Gary_and_Karen]

Because there is no acceptable alternative, and I can't put her down, or leave her to rot away for 8 or 9 more years in a cage.

 

Also: I've lived with this dog now for almost 4 months. She is as happy as a pig in mud. She is not conflicted at all. She ADORES us and follows me around the house like a shadow.

 

That is so very admirable of you Laurel, that in spite of her behavioural problems, your love for Ladybug does not allow for unacceptable alternatives.

 

....and I was so very glad to hear, that in spite of her problems with outsiders, at least she loves you all and is enjoying a happy life in your home !

 

(I think some of us *might* have had the wrong impression and had possibly thought that Ladybug was unhappy, but I am so glad to hear that is not the case)

[Laurel962]

That is so very admirable of you Laurel, that in spite of her behavioural problems, your love for Ladybug does not allow for unacceptable alternatives.

....and I was so very glad to hear, that in spite of her problems with outsiders, at least she loves you all and is enjoying a happy life in your home !

(I think some of us *might* have had the wrong impression and had possibly thought that Ladybug was unhappy, but I am so glad to hear that is not the case)

 

 

Thanks Gary.

 

I apologize that I am so upset about this, I think sometimes I paint a picture that suggests I am cold and mean to this dog....or neglectful. NOT TRUE.

 

She gets everything my old dog ever had -- more, really. I spend hundreds on her medical care and for a personal trainer, and in just a couple of months.

 

She gets the best food -- all her meals are homecooked, real food made from scratch for her. She was over 70 lbs when I got her -- the report on her said "morbidly obese" -- she is now down to about 52 lbs.

 

She gets walked 4-5 times a day....taken to parks, hiking. She went to the beach today to play and run on the sand.

 

She sleeps in our bed. She has dozens of toys.

 

She seems completely happy to me (except for the behaviors I describe).

 

So basically people are telling me to euthanize a happy, healthy dog and I have to be honest and say I don't think I am the sort of person who can do that.

 

I guess if it comes down to "euthanize Ladybug OR accept any semblance of my once-happy life is OVER", then I guess, my once-happy life is over.

[juliepoudrier]

[Jovi, thank god somebody understands.

 

Thank you.

 

Actually, I'm quite sure plenty of us understand. You're not the first person to own a problem dog, nor the last. Not trying to be unkind, but just pointing out that if you've read through any of the problem dog threads on this forum, you'd realize there are a heck of a lot of problem dogs out there, even biters. I own one. Not a dog I necessarily would have chosen for myself (although I am partial to his looks, for the most part). His owner died and the wife couldn't handle him. By the time my (and her) vet found me, the dog already had developed OCD behaviors that I was never able to successfully curb. And he's fear aggressive. I took the dog with the plan to rehome him. Once I realized he was a fear biter, I knew I could not place him anywhere. It was me or nothing. Fortunately, I'm pretty dog savvy, and he's bitten me badly (as in bad enough to need to see a doctor) just once in 13 years. But I don't trust him around other people. And he has gotten worse as he's aged. That's not to say that all dogs would do that, but it's something to consider.

 

Here are some things I took into account when I decided to keep Farleigh:

1. He hadn't actually bitten anyone, and he didn't actually bite me--without breaking the skin--until after I'd had him a few years. The bad bite, which occurred maybe three years ago (so ~ 10 years after I got him) was triggered by something I did unthinkingly that I *know* will trigger a bite. So it was my fault I got bitten. (I haven't seen your other thread and don't know why Ladybug bit a number of people; that is, whether there are triggers that were being ignored, warnings that were ignored, or if the bites were absolutely unprovoked. I gave Farleigh another chance after the bad bite only because I knew what I had done would likely trigger a bite and so I couldn't make him pay the price for my inattention in that moment that the bite happened. I suspect that Ladybug's bites are an entirely different situation.)

2. I live alone. I live on a farm (though I didn't when I first got him). There is not a lot of traffic of people in and out of my house, and almost no children. The people who do come here are often other owners of border collies or other dogs who are dog savvy and know about him and so are careful.

3. I tell every vet I have ever used, when making my first appointment for Farleigh that he is a fear biter, that he will need to be muzzled, and that I will place the muzzle on him myself to avoid any chance of him biting a veterinary staff member.

 

That said, I've also decided two things:

1. If anything happens to me, my dog directive places my dogs with trusted friends. Farleigh's directive says he is to be PTS.

2. If Farleigh develops an illness that requires a lot of handling on my part, I will opt to PTS rather than treat.

 

It is not easy giving up a dog. I guess people hear my words and think I am b*tch who wants to return a good dog, because the markings on her fur are not precisely the same as my old dog. That is NOT the case.

 

What I heard is that you have a dog that bites and that it has bitten multiple people. You say yourself that Ladybug is a liability, and she is. She's no less a liability because you have chosen "not to give up on her" or to not allow her to be euthanized. Eileen did not suggest that you mislead anyone about Ladybug; she said that Ladybug should be returned and the shelter should be informed about the biting issue. A sensible shelter, even a no-kill one, would do the responsible thing and make sure that Ladybug could not be a danger to anyone else. That suggestion has nothing to do with looks; it has to do with the sensibility of keeping a dog who is a serious liability.

 

Yes, I understand that others pushed you in to getting this particular dog. You couldn't have known what she was really like. Now you do. She is not safe to have around. If she's that willing to bite, are you willing to perhaps risk losing everything if she harms the wrong person and you are sued?

 

What Eileen was trying to point out to you was that the dog who was a match to your first dog could just as easily have had some serious temperament issue. The fact that the second dog looked so much like your first is no guarantee that it wouldn't have had some difficult-to-live-with personality trait. That's all Eileen was saying. And it goes to the larger point that people have been trying to make to Gary. There's certainly absolutely nothing wrong with getting a dog whose looks you prefer or who reminds you of another dog. The mistake many people make--and this mistake is the reason for all the cautioning comments on this thread--is that they get a dog that looks like the other dog and then have expectations that the dog will be like the other dog, and that's an unreasonable expectation. And then the owner is disappointed that the new dog isn't just like the old one. And of course the dog will sense that the new owner just isn't that happy with it. So it's not about looks per se, but rather about the potential for unreasonable expectations based on looks. No one is making value judgments here; they're just pointing out that more than looks should come into play when choosing a dog.

 

The value of a rescue (vs. a shelter/pound) is that presumably the dog has lived in foster care long enough for its true personality to show through, at which point the rescue would likely decide not to adopt out if the dog had a serious issue like biting. A dog at a shelter of any sort is never in a situation where it can settle in enough for anyone to know what it's really like. You got very unlucky, but it would be a shame if you allowed your experience with Ladybug to influence you to not look at any dog that doesn't look just like the dog you loved best. That's what you should be taking away from the comments about looks.

 

If I COULD HAVE returned Ladybug, it would have had to have been in the first two weeks, or month at the absolute outset. She did not show these biting and growling behaviors then! Like many shelter dogs, she was very meek and shy the first several weeks.

 

Did the shelter tell you this? It's a shelter. They can't dictate that a dog can't be brought back after X period of time. What would stop an owner from just taking the dog to another shelter anyway? I'm sure they weren't aware that Ladybug is a biter--if they had been they never would have adopted her out in the first place, because it's *their* liability too. And I also think that if you took her back and explained exactly why they'd do the right thing, because of that liability issue.

 

I have read about this problem, of course it is worse with shelter dogs and ADULT shelter dogs above all else.

 

In trying to deal with this, I did a little research on her background -- of course very little is known, but I got her medical records, and enough to know the shelter either LIED TO US or honestly did not know her true history and personality.

 

A shelter would have no reason to know her true history. Most people who drop animals at shelters don't say a whole lot about why, or they don't necessarily tell the truth, especially if they know the truth means the dog won't be adopted out. Many people who drop pets at shelters like to imagine that the animal isn't going to die but rather will end up in a loving home. In other words, they ignore reality because reality is pretty grim, and even more so for a dog with known temperament problems. I find it hard to believe that any shelter/rescue would adopt out a known biter. It's that liability thing again.

 

 

As Jovi correctly states: LEGALLY AND MORALLY I cannot give Ladybug to someone else, knowing she is a biter. My god, what if she hurt a child? and people today would be happy to sue me blind for this.

 

You are also not morally required to keep a dangerous dog. There are worse things than death for a dog. If she has temperament issues that make her a danger to you and society at large, then the moral thing to do is have her euthanized so that she is NOT a danger to you or other people. I can guarantee you that she won't know the difference and won't judge you for your decision. I wouldn't judge you for that decision. There's no need to be a "hero" and hang on to a dog that is a danger. Period. How would you live with yourself if she did some serious damage to someone else?

 

get her back IF they would take her), but then what????

 

Why would you have to lie? You take her back, explain that she has bitten multiple people and that you can't accept the liability. If you don't want to do that, then take her to your own vet and have her PTS. I can't imagine that anyone would argue against that choice. Ladybug hasn't given you a choice. She has bitten multiple times.

 

And FWIW, my fear biter is red and prick-eared, two characteristics that I *love.* I have a smooth-coated prick eared youngster--my favorite type of dog, smooth coated and prick eared. She's sweet to me, but is a real ass to the other dogs. Apparently she comes by it honestly from both sire and dam. So the point others have tried to make here is that you can find a dog that matches your expectations for looks and still be sorely disappointed with the actual temperament.

 

I realize that there will be people who are either shocked or offended by my comments regarding euthanizing problem dogs, but, as Eileen pointed out, a dog that scares you because it bites is not a dog you're going to have a normal relationship with, nor will anyone else likely be able to have a normal relationship with such a dog. It's not "giving up" on the dog; it's being realistic. It's taking into consideration what kind of life the dog would have--or what someone might do in anger--if you did pass it on to someone else or kept the dog and it bites again (and she *will* bite again). And note, I'm not talking about problems that are fixable with time, attention, and training (like dogs that go to the bathroom in the house, or that are aggressive toward other dogs when on lead, etc.). I'm talking specifically about dogs who bite humans.

 

ETA: Note that when I'm talking about a biting dog, I mean a dog who bites with intent; that is, a dog that bites to break the skin and not a dog that has gotten over-aroused and does a flyby nip type of thing. The difference has to do with intent and provocation.

 

J.

[Gary_and_Karen]

I was also in shock and very depressed, and the general wisdom I was offered said "get a new dog, it will heal your heart".

 

Also, when I got my border collie in 2001, I had just lost my first dog -- a terrible death, very sudden kidney failure at age 5. And Sasha, my border collie, just completely and utterly healed my heart and gave me so much joy for 11 years.

 

I truely understand the shock and depression, I have been in such a very deep sadness since our beloved Angel passed that I find myself just pushing myself thru each day, during each day and evening I am so keenly aware of her absence from our home, things just don't seem right without her around the house.

 

I have to hope that time will lessen the deep sadness, but I will still continue to miss her so much till I see her again.

 

We are still searching for a new dog, and as much as we so yearn to hear some happy paws running around the house again, we don't want to make a hasty choice, and are trying hard to be patient in waiting for the right one for us to become available.

 

I know a new dog will bring joy, but somehow I feel like I'll still have that sadness also, hopefully it will lesson over time, but I'll still miss Angel, I'll be thinking how she would be such good friends with the new dog as much as Angel loved everyone, both humans and other animals.

[Eileen Stein]

What it makes you is someone who has had only one or two border collies.

 

Ellen, how could I have had MORE than 1-2 border collies? do you realize that most dog owners in the US can't have had dozens of dogs -- we don't own farms, we don't breed dogs, show dogs or run sheep! We live in cities, or suburbs. We have small houses and small backyards. We only have one, or maybe two dogs at a time.

 

Well, yes, I do realize that. I never said you, or Gary and Karen, were unusual or somehow at fault for having had only one border collie. I merely said that an overemphasis on looks, and having one's next dog look like one's dear departed dog, is very characteristic of people who have had only one or two border collies. If those very same people go on to have several border collies, one or two at a time, they typically come to place much less value on the dog having a particular look.

 

Now -- you cannot honestly say that looks and personality do not matter, if so you would not be a border collie owner. You'd get some Heinz 57 mixed breed at the pound and be plenty happy it was a dog.

 

Who said that personality doesn't matter? No one. I said that looks don't matter. Look at the dog in my avatar. She was a border collie, but she didn't "look like a border collie." None of my previous or subsequent border collies have looked particularly like her (or like one another, for that matter). She was a wonderful dog, I miss her literally every day, but I certainly never cared whether my next dog looked like her or not.

 

It is not easy giving up a dog. I guess people hear my words and think I am b*tch who wants to return a good dog, because the markings on her fur are not precisely the same as my old dog. That is NOT the case.

 

No one would think that, because you have not said anything that would give that impression.

 

Laurel, please take Ladybug back to the shelter. Dogs are more sensitive to your feelings than you probably can realize. At this point, it's evident that you bitterly resent this dog and what having her has done to your life.

 

Sadly I really hoped that being a BC forum, you guys would understand my dilemma more clearly.

 

I understand your dilemma perfectly. Unfortunately, it's not within my power to change the facts, or the options open to you.

 

I CANNOT TAKE HER BACK OR REHOME HER.

 

SHE IS A BITER.

 

If I return her to the shelter I got her from, she will either A. live out her life in a steel cage, alone -- they can't place her again, knowing she bites because she is a LEGAL LIABILITY....

 

or B. they will euthanize her.

 

And I cannot give her away either, because of the same legal liability. Did you ever deal with a BITING DOG? do you have any idea what would happen to me if she BIT A CHILD? and disfigured them?

 

Yes, I have dealt with a biting dog. More than one, in fact. So have many of the people posting responses to you.

 

It sounds like you have ruled out returning her to the shelter. Ruled out trying to find a rescue that would take her, knowing the truth about her (yes, there are some that would, though most would not). Ruled out taking her to a behaviorist, ruled out medication. Ruled out euthanizing her. You have decided to keep her for the rest of her life, and bemoan your fate. This is a decision that only you can make, and you are right to do what you think best without regard to what others recommend.

 

I'm very sorry that you find yourself in this terrible situation, and I hope that things work out for you and Ladybug.

[PSmitty]

GREAT post, Julie.

[amc]

Years ago during my urban, dogless life, I visited a shelter rather on a whim. I saw a beautiful young (maybe 2 years old) obviously purebred Gordon Setter there and had to have him. He was an owner surrender but no other history. I figured that he was too energetic for his previous family, because of his size and breed.

 

He was a beatiful, soulful dog and I was smitten. I took him out to visit my aunt and uncle who lived about 100 miles away and he traveled so well in the car! But that night, after we'd gone to bed (I was staying in a little camp trailer on the grounds), Duncan's eyes suddenly glazed over and he started salivating and growling, baring his teeth at me and I thought for all the world he was going to attack. I've never been so frightened of a dog in all my life. The episode lasted about 3 minutes but it seemed like an eternity and fortunately he did not attack. I didn't sleep a wink but spent the night pondering it and I then knew why he was at the shelter.

 

I left my aunt & uncle's place the next morning without telling them anything, found a local veterinarian and had Duncan PTS. It took a bit of convincing the vet to euthanize this beautiful, apparently healthy young animal, but he must have eventually read the terror I felt, and he did the deed. This was over 25 years ago and I still get shaky recalling that terrible night, but I remain convinced that I did right by that dog.

 

Having said all that, the Border Collie dog of my heart, Pete, was a nipper of people (not me, however) and like Julie, I managed him for his entire long life, and it was my pleasure and duty to do so...but he was not a 'dangerous dog' by a long shot.

 

I write this, Laurel, to let you know that I for one would not judge you harshly if you return Ladybug to the shelter or have her PTS yourself. I would rather have you and Ladybug 'set free' because despite all you have done and continue to do for her, it's probably not going to work out as you'd hoped. At some point it really is okay to say you did what you could, learn from your journey, know that Ladybug has felt your loving care, and move on.

 

Good luck,

 

Amy

[Laurel962]

Actually, I'm quite sure plenty of us understand. You're not the first person to own a problem dog, nor the last. Not trying to be unkind, but just pointing out that if you've read through any of the problem dog threads on this forum, you'd realize there are a heck of a lot of problem dogs out there, even biters.

 

 

I just joined, so no, I have not read most of the other posts. I do know there are plenty of problem dogs out in the world, of all breeds.

 

 

Once I realized he was a fear biter, I knew I could not place him anywhere. It was me or nothing. Fortunately, I'm pretty dog savvy, and he's bitten me badly (as in bad enough to need to see a doctor) just once in 13 years. But I don't trust him around other people. And he has gotten worse as he's aged. That's not to say that all dogs would do that, but it's something to consider.

 

 

Wow. I am so sorry for your experience. It is very discouraging. This is what I mean when I say "you guys make this sound hopeless". Where are the stories of dogs with some problems, who got the right help and turned out to be good dogs?

 

I didn't express it, but the aging issue is in the back of my mind. Ladybug is relatively young and healthy now, but I think aggressive behavior worsens with age and illness.

 

 

 

 

 

That said, I've also decided two things:

1. If anything happens to me, my dog directive places my dogs with trusted friends. Farleigh's directive says he is to be PTS.

2. If Farleigh develops an illness that requires a lot of handling on my part, I will opt to PTS rather than treat.

 

 

 

Well -- that is also terribly sad.

 

The truth is, I have some absolutely wonderful pets -- cats, an elderly parrot - and there is nobody who would take them, let alone love and care for them if something happened to me. Parrots are noisy and filthy, and he could live another 30 years. So I worry about this. I am not terribly elderly, but I'm also not in my 20s.

 

Your situation with Farleigh is what I hoped to avoid. But I am not afraid of Ladybug, nor do I have any problem in handling her at this time.

 

 

Eileen did not suggest that you mislead anyone about Ladybug; she said that Ladybug should be returned and the shelter should be informed about the biting issue. A sensible shelter, even a no-kill one, would do the responsible thing and make sure that Ladybug could not be a danger to anyone else. That suggestion has nothing to do with looks; it has to do with the sensibility of keeping a dog who is a serious liability.

 

 

 

I do understand her message, and I also get the "sensible parts' but it is very hard to return a dog after a while. Had she exhibited biting behaviors in the first two weeks, I WOULD have returned her -- even that would be hard. Now it would be downright cruel.

 

The policy of the shelter is not to put animals down. They likely will not even take in aggressive dogs or biters to begin with. Their written policy says they will keep any dog (or cat) for its entire life, if no adopter appears.

 

 

I have probably inadvertently made Ladybug sound like "Cujo". She is not snarling and drooling and biting constantly. She has had about 4-5 nipping incidents. In fact, she does NOT snarl or growl before nipping. She lays there, acting very passive -- lunges, nips (in about a tenth of a second) -- then retreats and lays back down as if nothing as happened.

 

 

 

Yes, I understand that others pushed you in to getting this particular dog. You couldn't have known what she was really like. Now you do. She is not safe to have around. If she's that willing to bite, are you willing to perhaps risk losing everything if she harms the wrong person and you are sued?

 

 

Obviously I do worry about the risk, and even the moral responsibility if she really bit someone hard, and I know how litigious people are today.

 

However, I do have homeowner's insurance, and I am much more careful with her now, than at first.

 

 

 

 

 

What Eileen was trying to point out to you was that the dog who was a match to your first dog could just as easily have had some serious temperament issue. The fact that the second dog looked so much like your first is no guarantee that it wouldn't have had some difficult-to-live-with personality trait. That's all Eileen was saying. And it goes to the larger point that people have been trying to make to Gary. There's certainly absolutely nothing wrong with getting a dog whose looks you prefer or who reminds you of another dog. The mistake many people make--and this mistake is the reason for all the cautioning comments on this thread--is that they get a dog that looks like the other dog and then have expectations that the dog will be like the other dog, and that's an unreasonable expectation. And then the owner is disappointed that the new dog isn't just like the old one. And of course the dog will sense that the new owner just isn't that happy with it. So it's not about looks per se, but rather about the potential for unreasonable expectations based on looks. No one is making value judgments here; they're just pointing out that more than looks should come into play when choosing a dog.

 

 

 

Actually, I do not entirely disagree with you. However, unless someone is a very skilled trainer or experience dog owner with years of breed specific knowledge, you CANNOT TELL if the dog will turn out like Ladybug.

 

 

Ladybug was seen by a dog warden, by a very reputable vet (who raises border collies!) and by a no-kill shelter -- which has the choice to take a dog or not (unlike the county kennel). If she had shown ANY signs of aggression or nipping, I suspect she would have been put down well before I ever saw her.

 

Since dogs can "hide" these behaviors, how do ordinary people tell?

 

 

Yes, I can see how you might think "looking for a dog who looks like your old dog" would be flimsy, but what else do we have to go on? I know my dog was gentle and sweet and shy -- the dog whose picture I saw, she was at a border collie rescue farm, and they described her as "sweet, gentle, shy, loving". That's what I was going on, plus she DID look just like my old dog. Was it a guarantee? obviously not.

 

 

 

The value of a rescue (vs. a shelter/pound) is that presumably the dog has lived in foster care long enough for its true personality to show through, at which point the rescue would likely decide not to adopt out if the dog had a serious issue like biting. A dog at a shelter of any sort is never in a situation where it can settle in enough for anyone to know what it's really like. You got very unlucky, but it would be a shame if you allowed your experience with Ladybug to influence you to not look at any dog that doesn't look just like the dog you loved best. That's what you should be taking away from the comments about looks.

 

 

 

Well, I have not had all that good experiences with the breed specific rescues in my state. And at the time I was looking, neither of them (there are only TWO in the whole state!) had a young female. They had a number of males, and quite a few senior dogs. I was told "people don't surrender young females, because of their value in breeding".

 

 

 

Did the shelter tell you this? It's a shelter. They can't dictate that a dog can't be brought back after X period of time. What would stop an owner from just taking the dog to another shelter anyway? I'm sure they weren't aware that Ladybug is a biter--if they had been they never would have adopted her out in the first place, because it's *their* liability too. And I also think that if you took her back and explained exactly why they'd do the right thing, because of that liability issue.

 

 

 

Well, I signed a contract when I adopted her. I realize it would probably not be enforceable -- I live 3.5 hours away. I could probably try to return her, assuming they even had an opening. If that was my true intent, I would not be wasting people's time here. I would not have spent hundreds of dollars on trainers, nor hours of my time trying to research this, and find answers.

 

My guess is that they would not believe me if I said she was biting. Ladybug was at the shelter for almost 8 months. She was very well known to the staff and a favorite. She apparently exhibited no aggression there, even in the presence of many other dogs. I think she was even sharing a cage with another good-sized dog. They would probably assume I got tired of her, or was moving, or wanted to avoid some veterinary expense.

 

 

 

 

A shelter would have no reason to know her true history. Most people who drop animals at shelters don't say a whole lot about why, or they don't necessarily tell the truth, especially if they know the truth means the dog won't be adopted out. Many people who drop pets at shelters like to imagine that the animal isn't going to die but rather will end up in a loving home. In other words, they ignore reality because reality is pretty grim, and even more so for a dog with known temperament problems. I find it hard to believe that any shelter/rescue would adopt out a known biter. It's that liability thing again.

 

 

I don't think the biting habit was something they saw or recognized.

 

I don't think I was clear about where I got her. It was NOT some city or county shelter. It is a PRIVATELY RUN, "no kill" shelter. They can be quite choosey about which animals they take in. Some of the animals there are injured or unadoptable or seniors; they care for these animals all their lives. It is a charity. They make a point that they NEVER euthanize (except for illness).

 

 

 

You are also not morally required to keep a dangerous dog. There are worse things than death for a dog. If she has temperament issues that make her a danger to you and society at large, then the moral thing to do is have her euthanized so that she is NOT a danger to you or other people. I can guarantee you that she won't know the difference and won't judge you for your decision. I wouldn't judge you for that decision. There's no need to be a "hero" and hang on to a dog that is a danger. Period. How would you live with yourself if she did some serious damage to someone else?

 

 

 

I would not keep her if she was that clearly dangerous. Like the example in some other post here, of a dog that terrified the owner -- with teeth bared, and their eyes glazed over. We've had NOTHING like that. She is very sweet, loving and friendly to us.

 

 

Ladybug hasn't given you a choice. She has bitten multiple times.

 

 

Wow, I have never heard of anyone putting an animal down for the kind of tiny nips this dog has given. I know it is annoying, I know some people might sue over even this tiny a thing.

 

But it is hardly a vicious attack. If she did that, I probably WOULD have had her put down. But I don't think I could ever just "dump her" somewhere.

 

 

 

I realize that there will be people who are either shocked or offended by my comments regarding euthanizing problem dogs, but, as Eileen pointed out, a dog that scares you because it bites is not a dog you're going to have a normal relationship with, nor will anyone else likely be able to have a normal relationship with such a dog. It's not "giving up" on the dog; it's being realistic.

 

 

I am not shocked exactly, but I am saddened. I HAVE known dogs who were so vicious, so large and dangerous, that they constituted a real risk to their OWNERS let alone strangers. Nothing Ladybug has done falls into that category.

 

 

I guess I wanted the kind of sweet, trustworthy, FRIENDLY dog that I used to have.

 

 

 

And note, I'm not talking about problems that are fixable with time, attention, and training (like dogs that go to the bathroom in the house, or that are aggressive toward other dogs when on lead, etc.). I'm talking specifically about dogs who bite humans.

 

 

But if that is true -- why are people telling me to spend considerable money to take her to a behaviorist????

 

That was my initial question really: is this treatable or hopeless? what treatments work? does anyone have stories about situations like this that turned out well?

 

Here you seem to say "NOTHING can fix a dog who nips -- not time, not attention, not love, and not training."

 

 

 

 

 

ETA: Note that when I'm talking about a biting dog, I mean a dog who bites with intent; that is, a dog that bites to break the skin and not a dog that has gotten over-aroused and does a flyby nip type of thing. The difference has to do with intent and provocation.

 

 

Perhaps I was not clear.

 

 

I can't say if she intends to nip or not. She has never broken the skin. Once, she was "over-aroused" -- excited about going outside and nipped the back of my leg, and once when I brushed burrs from her tail, she nipped my hand (very slightly). She has never nipped my husband.

 

The other cases -- twice, people stepped OVER her....one lady stepped over her head (while she was laying down resting) and TRIPPED over her leash (tugging it). The other was a child, who was sort of dancing and skipping around her, crying out in a shrill voice. In that case, I am almost 100% sure there was no physical contact, that Ladybug snapped at the child and did not make contact.

 

Then some weeks later, she nipped the child's MOTHER, who was just standing there talking to me. This was the most puzzling case, there was nothing I could attribute it to except the woman had odd, fuzzy slippers on.

 

The last case was where she nipped my brother in law. He was in the house for several hours, and had petted her, and she seemed very friendly to him. So I did not restrain her. Then he went into the kitchen and on his way out, he brushed against her as he went through the doorway. She apparently nipped him on the back of the calf. He was wearing heavy sweatpants, and so had no physical injury, but said he "felt a sting, like a mousetrap snapping shut". I have no doubt she nipped him.

 

Those are ALL the instances that have happened within 4 months.

 

There have been 4-5 instances where she growled at people, including playing children, and where she growled at other dogs.

 

The growling and nipping are separate. She has never escalated a growl into a nip (though I imagine that could happen). When she nips, there is no warning at all.

[rufftie]

i think we might be confusing nipping- an annoying border collie obsession to control movement and biting-an act of aggression. my nova nips. if you are hugging or petting her and try to leave, she might try to grab you and keep you near. or if you move by her closely and quickly she might try to nip a calf or ankle. i know this happens and try to stop her before or warn my dog savvy friends that she'll try to keep you. since she never does it to me, it does make it harder to correct. at agility trials, i keep her occupied so she doesn't stress after all that movement going on so close to her that she can't control (she does put the order in border!) when we go for a walk on leash, i keep her close to me when we pass others so she can't reach them, and if we're off leash and i see others on the trail. i call her and hook her up. if people want to pet her (adults) i warn 'em that she'll not let you go, but i know absolutly that what she does is a sign of affection and not aggression, despite how annoying it is. i do work on breaking his habit, as i realize how detrimental and possibly dangerous it could be.

[Laurel962]

i think we might be confusing nipping- an annoying border collie obsession to control movement and biting-an act of aggression. my nova nips. if you are hugging or petting her and try to leave, she might try to grab you and keep you near. or if you move by her closely and quickly she might try to nip a calf or ankle. i know this happens and try to stop her before or warn my dog savvy friends that she'll try to keep you. since she never does it to me, it does make it harder to correct. at agility trials, i keep her occupied so she doesn't stress after all that movement going on so close to her that she can't control (she does put the order in border!) when we go for a walk on leash, i keep her close to me when we pass others so she can't reach them, and if we're off leash and i see others on the trail. i call her and hook her up. if people want to pet her (adults) i warn 'em that she'll not let you go, but i know absolutly that what she does is a sign of affection and not aggression, despite how annoying it is. i do work on breaking his habit, as i realize how detrimental and possibly dangerous it could be.

 

 

Yes, and I apologize if I failed to make that clear. THIS IS NIPPING.

 

However, to people who get nipped by some strangers dog, it will COUNT AS A BITE in a legal sense.

 

Ladybug nips ankles. She has only once nipped my hand, just barely, when I combed burrs out of her tail. I am sure it pulled and hurt, but I had no choice. (Yes, I tried first to wash them out with conditioner; it didn't work.)

 

It is my impression that it is NOT a sign of affection with Ladybug, or trying to keep people near her.

 

 

I think it mostly JEALOUSY. However, the trainer got kind of annoyed with me for putting a human emotion on it. I am just related MY IMPRESSION. I think she is protective of me, and jealousy of attention from other people to me -- that is why she has nipped visitors.

 

I think it is a bit of a warning "don't you do anything to my mom, and don't take her attention away from me!"

 

The growling is probably related to this also.

 

I don't want to diminish the importance of stopping this behavior. It is not acceptable. People WILL SUE over a nip, even if they suffer no real injury. In 2000, my dog then (a terrier mix) nipped the mailman (or possibly just put her paws on his arm; she had very long claws and they would have scraped). I was right there. I saw his arm; there was NO impression, NO pink, NOTHING. He did not seek medical care of any kind. TWO YEARS after the event, he got a lawyer and sued us (days before the statute of limitations).

 

So I am well aware you can be sued for a nip.

 

I take this very seriously. HOWEVER, when I read about terrifying dogs baring their teeth and threatening their owners, or bite wounds that require surgery and so on -- that is NOT the situation. That's why I am shocked that so many people have immediately said "euthanize her!' with no real alternatives.

 

 

So I will try ONE MORE TIME:

 

What I would like to find is a TRAINING SOLUTION, maybe something we can do at home with her, to de-sensitize her AND make it very clear to her that "nipping and growling are 100% unacceptable behaviors, just as pooping in the house is a 100% unacceptable behavior".

[rushdoggie]

i think we might be confusing nipping- an annoying border collie obsession to control movement and biting-an act of aggression.

 

 

I think the following comments from Laurel are why many are thinking this might be a more serious problem that that.

 

"But I never dreamed we had taken in such a troubled animal, and

we are miserable, we can't take her anywhere, everyone is afraid of her

."

 

"She did a little clicker training, and then tried to provoke the nipping/growling,

and got scared the dog would bite HER

, and basically refused to continue."

 

"and I am in a world of pain and misery,

with a dog who bites and growls

, and hates everyone but us,"

 

 

Ladybug nips ankles. She has only once nipped my hand, just barely, when I combed burrs out of her tail. I am sure it pulled and hurt, but I had no choice. (Yes, I tried first to wash them out with conditioner; it didn't work.)

 

You can see why we might be confused...

 

That's why I am shocked that so many people have immediately said "euthanize her!' with no real alternatives.

 

And if this is all that you took from all the posts that have been given in two threads, then you are indeed filtering your understanding.

 

In the other thread there are a few really good suggestions. The best is the one that says you need to let go of your expectations about Ladybug. You need to accept her for the dog she is and work with her, or send her back and move on. Its not fair to you or to her.

 

There is no magic pill or command that will fix her issues. They will take time, and maybe medical intervention. You had a bad experience with one trainer, I'm sorry. But there are good trainers out there who can help you. I will PM you a list of recommended trainers in your area later today (I used to live close and have friends in the area and also know a couple of behavioral trainers in other parts of the country who are networked enough to give me names).

 

Do a search in the forum for information about nipping and fear responses. Look up Karen Overall and try some of the things she outlines in her articles. Suzanne Clothier has some good books and articles and there's some exercises in Control Unleashed that might help her to, basically teaching her a different emotional response.

 

Good luck.

[juliepoudrier]

I was in the middle of a post when I inadvertently hit a wrong button and lost everything. So I'm just going to say a couple of things.

 

First don't feel sorry for me or my situation. I don't. Farleigh and I have an understanding. He'll be 14 next month. He's bitten once to the point that I needed to see a doctor (the next day). He has lived a long, good, happy life with me. He gets the care, exercise, and human interaction he wants. I'm not afraid to take him out in public or have people visit me. I know him well and can predict when he will react and I make every effort to not put him in situations that will cause him to react badly. I don't see how his story could be considered disheartening or discouraging, especially in light of your further explanation that Ladybug doesn't really bite, but just nips.

 

Here's the hard truth. You have a dog who needs retraining. You now say that she was seen and handled by at least several experienced, dog savvy people who saw no outward problems with her. I tried to point out that living in a shelter situation isn't quite the same as living in a home, and that the difference could be why the shelter folks never saw the behaviors you are now seeing. What that means is that the shelter probably DIDN'T lie to you. They didn't see the behavior because Ladybug was never in the situations that elicit that behavior.

 

Given your more detailed explanation, I would say that Ladybug can be a good dog. But YOU have to be willing to commit the time and energy to retraining her to behave the way you want her to. I get the sense though that you are afraid of her (you actually said that) and that you don't much like her because she isn't the easygoing, fit-seamlessly-into-the-family dog you were hoping for. And if that's the case, then I can see why you would dismiss people's suggestions to see a behaviorist or find a better trainer. The trainer who mentioned herding dogs did you and Ladybug a disservice. Yes, reactivity to motion is an inherent characterist of many herding breeds. But most any dog can be taught not to react to motion in the way that Ladybug is reacting. A trainer who would say that such behaviors can't be retrained is just plain lazy or incapable of training.

 

I have had my dogs get overexcited on occasion and nip or put their teeth on me. I recognized it for what it was, gave them a verbal correction and went on with whatever I was doing. I would't consider them dangerous or liabilities for that sort of behavior.

 

The growling is another story. She's warning whoever she's growling at that she's not comfortable with the situation. Only you are there to witness what's happening when she growls, so only you can figure out what is triggering her. FWIW, if she growls, then at least she's letting you know that she's uncomfortable with the situation and so you have a chance to intervene and prevent whatever might come next.

 

What this all comes down to is what YOU want. You can either commit to retraining Ladybug, which will take some money and a good amount of time, or you can decide that you can't commit that time and effort. If you decide the latter, then you can still probably find a rescue that would take her, with your full explanation of her behavior that caused fear and problems in your household, and would be willing to do the retraining necessary so that she can be successfully placed in a forever home. Especially if she's lovely, young, and healthy.

 

IMO, Ladybug does not sound like a hopeless biting case. She sounds like a dog who has been allowed to get away with inappropriate behavior and so doesn't know any better. When children come around, Ladybug can go in a crate or be crated in another room. You also need to teach the people who will interact with her what behaviors are appropriate around her, at least during the retraining phase. If stepping over her head, tripping over her leash, erratic movement and high-pitched squeals elicit a charge and a nip, then the obvious first answer is to limit those triggers, while AT THE SAME TIME teaching her that such behavior is unacceptable. Maybe you could consider NILIF (you can Google it and get lots of information).

 

None of us can, however, make the decision for you to commit to retraining her. If you don't want to commit to the retraining--for whatever reason--then try to get Ladybug to an organization that will do it.

 

J.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

I know a couple trainers who retrain biters. Tony Ancheta has retrained hundreds: http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/

 

Donald McCaig

[terrecar]

You might also consider a board certified veterinary behaviorist: http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/

[mbc1963]

So, upon reading your detailed descriptions of the nipping situations, I can say with certainty that my dog would likely also react in those situations. (Not by nipping, but by getting uncomfortable and trying to escape - and early on, by snapping at dogs who happened to be involved.)

 

The brother-in-law crossing the doorway thing, the child whirling nearby: they would both annoy and irritate my dog. It's about personal space, and a safe escape route, and feeling trapped. (At least from what I can tell.) And more noise and more commotion makes the trapped-feeling worse.

 

We used to walk at a college with a herd of people and dogs Buddy knew and liked. EXCEPT... there was a bridge we had to cross, and in crossing the bridge, everybody had to get closer together, and sometimes people and dogs would be pressed too close. And Buddy would react. So, I learned to hang back and let the crowd go first and follow after, so Buddy wasn't constantly on alert crossing the bridge. Likewise, any closed-in, narrow space: passing between a house and a parked car on the street, I wouldn't enter the "tunnel" created if another pair of humans were coming the opposite way. I would wait until they cleared, and then move in with Buddy. The forced proximity of the space would make him nervous and easily startled, and if one of the people went to pat him, he would over-react.

 

Leaning over a dog like this makes him feel trapped. Hugging a dog like this unless you know him exceptionally well is a disaster. Trapping him in any way - with actual physical boundaries or just a sense that there's no escape route, creates fear and reactivity. Buddy once pinned a girl dog he loves, because they were walking in a deep snow trail, and she tried to get ahead of him, which forced her to literally bash into his left side. Harmless, but to Buddy, an implied attack. Predictable as the sunrise. I should have known better.

 

Being fine with your BIL in one situation (with enough space and no threats) doesn't mean your dog trusts your BIL entirely. I suspect "too close" is one of her serious triggers, and needs to be respected. I can say that my dog's window of comfort has shrunk considerably over the years - from 20 feet to maybe 2 or 3 feet - so he hardly looks reactive at all. But I am always aware of his need for space, and honor it. His trusting me to give it to him is one of the reasons he feels safe in the world.

 

I think it's very possible that you can learn to see what situations trigger your dog - in fact, you'll likely become so expert that you'll see the trigger well before it causes any reaction.

 

Mary

[Root Beer]

So I will try ONE MORE TIME:

 

What I would like to find is a TRAINING SOLUTION, maybe something we can do at home with her, to de-sensitize her AND make it very clear to her that "nipping and growling are 100% unacceptable behaviors, just as pooping in the house is a 100% unacceptable behavior".

 

Hi Laurel,

 

Here is a training suggestion.

 

While my first recommendation would be a complete medical work up and consult with a vet behaviorist (hang on, I'm getting to the training suggestion in a second) since you are not open to that route, I would suggest that you get hold of a book by Emma Parsons called "Click to Calm", and a DVD set, also by Emma Parsons, called "TACT". TACT is designed specifically for dogs who have issues with people.

 

The reason why I recommend this is that it is extremely beginner friendly. You won't find that it is above your head, too technical, or to complex to follow. It will give you practical TRAINING techniques that you can employ right away, and at the same time, you will get some new information to help you understand how to recognize triggers and what to do in the face of them.

 

Yes, it is a bit of a monetary investment (although extremely reasonable for what you will be getting), but I believe, based on what you write, that you would find it very much worth your while. It is not a magic bullet or an instant fix, but it would help you to educate yourself, and it would give you tools that would most likely prove extremely helpful.

 

I recommend this over Control Unleashed in your case because CU is not really a reactive dog program, and, based on what you write, I believe that you and your dog need an underlying foundation before going to CU. In the long run, CU would be great, too.

 

I wish you the best. These dogs provide a tremendous opportunity for learning and growth.

[bcnewe2]

I have read parts of this thread and had a few things I thought I'd share.

Sorry you are having all these issues and that you have had this whole deal where you wanted a dog that looked like your old dog. I don't see the issues being related at all.

 

But Just wanted to add my story and thoughts on the aggressive parts.

 

In one of your later posts you say it's not aggressive but called them "nips" earlier I thought I read that the nips broke the skin.

 

So going on the idea that these aren't full out attacks here's my thoughts,

 

Faye is my year old pup. She is quite shy, I got her at 4 months old from a small farm where there wasn't much socialization. Not only that but she is a shy sensitive pup by nature and genetics.

 

I had her a few weeks and my grandkids came over. 2 and 6 year old. Faye laid under the kitchen table watching both kids. These kids are not over the top type kids running around being crazy, they are pretty quiet. So the little one was walking to the sliding glass door (walking not running or even being excited). Like a shot of of the blue Faye ran out from under the table and bit (or I wonder now if she even made contact but the intent was there) the little one on the back of the leg. She did no damage and the baby didn't even cry but it was a definite nip or bite as I see it. I corrected her a bit and chalked it off to nerves and new surroundings. But then my sister came over and she did the same thing. Then some more people came over and she did it again. These seemed to be random people all doing different things that had triggered her to go after them.

 

She is young, and I am quite used to having multiple dogs with issues. In my mind I think she was trying to get the people to back off her space. What I did was correct her by putting a short lead on her and making her stay at my side while the people who caused her to react paraded around in front of her. She was nervous but by making her stay at my side she learned that it was ok to have people around her that made her uncomfortable. While outside she was quite adamant to get to some playing kids and I did correct her slightly with a leash pop and some harsh words. But the message she got was this was unacceptable. I see her get nervous now, and I expect with time she will get used to things that upset her now. But she knows what I expect out of her and she also knows there are uncomfortable consequences for nipping or biting people.

 

If she were to nip me I'd probably holler at her and startle her to snap her out of her intent. She is a sound pup with a few nervous issues, she is not an aggresive pup. I don't baby her or accept her snapping at anyone. and I haven't sent her backwards by being corrective instead of kind and understanding.

 

A few more thoughts on your dog.

 

I have a senior dog who came to me as a very dog aggressive dog and could of easily been a human biter or a biter of anything. She had major issues. Her littemates were ALL put down due to there agressive tendencies. I worked with her for years. At this time she is 13 and you would never know she had issues as a young dog. But she did and still does take some management to keep her sound and sweet.

 

I don't feel your dog has those type issues, I think she is over her "new dog" phase and is seeing what she can get by with and a bit nervous in certain situations and people. I could be all wrong but that's my take on your situation.

 

Good luck