ejano Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 I've been wrestling with this problem for most of the summer...you see things every day and they don't register, then suddenly one day you realize that little dog you see every day is being severely neglected. It has a shelter of sorts but the dog house faces north and is in a wet area on top of a windy hill -- the dog is out there 24 hours a day and gets about 15 minutes of attention a day when someone gives it food and water. It is on a rope so if it were really desperate, it could chew the rope and escape but it doesn't' The rope is about 15 feet long so it circles around like hands on a clock, watching the landscape. The view is interesting and it seems content - if a little lonely. My dogs do the same things when outside now -lie in sun or shade and watch the world go by. The rope is tied to a post about 10 feet from the dog house so the dog has an area to roam but sometimes its rope is tangled and it can't get to the dog house. It's little - thin under a mangled coat with a harsh old dog (or perhaps collar too tight?) bark. I wouldn't mind so much if it just had a decent dog house and it would be nice if they would bring it in to shelter once in awhile! It's cold on that corner and very windy on nasty days. I've called twice to see if they would be willing to give me the dog. The SPCA gave me the number of the local dog warden - I left messages he hasn't called me back. He can't do anything if the dog has shelter but the shelter is inadequate and sometimes he can't reach it. I stopped at the house last weekend when the dog was lying flat out on the grass - I thought it was dead. I knocked on the door to ask them if they would give me the dog. Someone was home, but didn't answer. It shouldn't matter, but yeah, it's a Border Collie. What more can I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient_Dog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 If I knew about it and could see it every day, it would weigh heavy on my heart. If I thought there was no other way (which I think you already know that). I would do what needed to be done for the dog. It sounds like the people have no knowledge of you or your intent. They obviously don’t care about the dog. Like you say, the rope could look like it was chewed by the dog and it escaped. It might end up in a Border Collie Rescue. I know this is legally wrong, admonishing me for this will do no good. On some things there is a higher authority than the court system... to which we all must answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Money talks......much as I hate to say this, maybe offer to buy the dog...have cash in hand....say you need a dog to play with when you go to the park. Show cash......we have done this before. This is how I got Tess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted October 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 If I knew about it and could see it every day, it would weigh heavy on my heart. If I thought there was no other way (which I think you already know that). I would do what needed to be done for the dog. It sounds like the people have no knowledge of you or your intent. They obviously don’t care about the dog. Like you say, the rope could look like it was chewed by the dog and it escaped. It might end up in a Border Collie Rescue. I know this is legally wrong, admonishing me for this will do no good. On some things there is a higher authority than the court system... to which we all must answer. I thought it might one day slip its collar...but it's a bit growley and shows it's teeth... It does weigh heavy on my heart - I take better care of my sheep (who have a grand shelter) and visit with them longer each day than that dog gets and they're supposed to be outside! Spoiled creatures, my sheep. They had animals when they got the dog - beef cows and a flock of chickens. The dog worked...at least I saw it gathering the chickens. They got rid of the animals maybe a year ago... it's just another sad example of get a dog for a purpose, then when the purpose doesn't work out, kick it out. I can take a photograph from the road and send it to the SPCA Cruelty officer, who is apparently based 3 /1/2 hours away now! Edit - and yes, if I see the man, I'll offer to buy the dog. Rescue said I had to own it before they'd take it in. Cashing my check will mean its mine. I'll just have to be ready when I see them outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I agree. Buy him. Put a note on their door offering to buy. Next time you come by they will open up. Good luck... I bought three dogs in this situation when I was in Collie rescue. It usually works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schaferhunde AKA Sheepdog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 People like this disgust me, there is too many of them. I hope the dog will soon get a better life,then what the dog is living in currently. While most likely you couldn't report the owner for neglect(It has food,shelter & water). While I DO promote the Working Dog,I NEVER promote dumping of the dog or any working animal for that matter, To be let fend for themselves, and be dumped because they no longer have a purpose. Maybe the SPCA can help, even though there far away, as you said send the pictures of the conditions the dog is living in. If that doesn't work,ask to purchase the dog, but I'd advice to try other ways to help this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 Money really does talk. On Tess's story, I sent a friend down with cash to see if she could get these two pups before the owner was leaving on vacation. She wanted $500 pet pups (and that was 14 yrs ago and un registered) I only had $300 and my friend called me, seeing the pistol the crazy owner had on the table, ready to shoot the pups. I told her to empty the cash in front of her and tell her that I said that was all I had. It was tens, twentys bills, all wadded up. From my emergency account since it was on a weekend. The crazy lady heard the phone call and took the cash. At this point, she realized that was ALL I really had. As a bonus, she tossed in Tess's older sister (8 months?) for free. She agreed to it but said the pups could not be in rescue and a private sale as she didnt want her name tainted. So we got three dog for $100 each. That is is how I got Tess for $100. A couple of years later ??, she called me again. She had Tess's half brother for sale. He ran away from her and she beat his head so bad, he bleed out of his eyes and ears. I met her and gave her $300 and a bill of sale. I got him so he wasn't terrified of people then placed him with an active older couple on a farm. He lived a long and happy life. She wanted more but I told her that $300 was firm, flashed the cash and she took it. Finally she quit breeding unregistered dog and went to horses. I got Tesss' mom who was the last one and placed her in a family home. Money does talk and in this case, it saved not only Tess but a bunch more. I never really told this story to anyone as it disgust me, the behavior of the crazy lady. I could tell a lot more horror stories but then I would have to take a shower to wash that filthy memory away. Go up and be nice, ask about the dog, tell them you need a active dog and ask if you could buy him. It was the best $100 that I ever spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Update - both the dog warden and cruelty officer have checked on the dog. Both times, the rope was not tangled and it was in its house and had a pan beside it that they assumed was food or water - they can't go on the property of course, and the dog is some distance from the property line. The cruelty officer said she would continue to keep an eye on it and if/when the snow prevents it from getting into the dog house they can do something but at the moment, it has everything that the owners are legally required to give it. Food and shelter - albeit a poor shelter but it has a roof - I felt badly for the cruelty officer - she was young and sympathetic. I do believe she will continue to keep an eye on the dog - and so will I. If I see the people outside, I will stop to offer to buy the dog - they don't answer their door or telephone messages. This is a good example of the emphasis on the wrong things...the USDA should also address some issues related to individual ownership. I guess if the dog warden busted them for no license, no rabies shot, then he'd have to go after "everyone" - but I recently got a ticket for running a right on red signal (I honestly didn't think that one had to stop if the intersection was clear!) and I know for a fact plenty of other people do the same thing I did at the same intersection and most don't get ticketed so there's really no difference in my mind. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Diane, this is a wonderfully happy ending story - thank you for sharing it. Money really does talk. On Tess's story, I sent a friend down with cash to see if she could get these two pups before the owner was leaving on vacation. She wanted $500 pet pups (and that was 14 yrs ago and un registered) I only had $300 and my friend called me, seeing the pistol the crazy owner had on the table, ready to shoot the pups. I told her to empty the cash in front of her and tell her that I said that was all I had. It was tens, twentys bills, all wadded up. From my emergency account since it was on a weekend. The crazy lady heard the phone call and took the cash. At this point, she realized that was ALL I really had. As a bonus, she tossed in Tess's older sister (8 months?) for free. She agreed to it but said the pups could not be in rescue and a private sale as she didnt want her name tainted. So we got three dog for $100 each. That is is how I got Tess for $100. A couple of years later ??, she called me again. She had Tess's half brother for sale. He ran away from her and she beat his head so bad, he bleed out of his eyes and ears. I met her and gave her $300 and a bill of sale. I got him so he wasn't terrified of people then placed him with an active older couple on a farm. He lived a long and happy life. She wanted more but I told her that $300 was firm, flashed the cash and she took it. Finally she quit breeding unregistered dog and went to horses. I got Tesss' mom who was the last one and placed her in a family home. Money does talk and in this case, it saved not only Tess but a bunch more. I never really told this story to anyone as it disgust me, the behavior of the crazy lady. I could tell a lot more horror stories but then I would have to take a shower to wash that filthy memory away. Go up and be nice, ask about the dog, tell them you need a active dog and ask if you could buy him. It was the best $100 that I ever spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 This is a good example of the emphasis on the wrong things...the USDA should also address some issues related to individual ownership. I guess if the dog warden busted them for no license, no rabies shot, then he'd have to go after "everyone" - but I recently got a ticket for running a right on red signal (I honestly didn't think that one had to stop if the intersection was clear!) and I know for a fact plenty of other people do the same thing I did at the same intersection and most don't get ticketed so there's really no difference in my mind. Liz The USDA isn't really in the business of regulating private ownership (unless you have a USDA license for owning a tiger and such). The real burden lies within local jurisdictions (states, counties and towns) and many have already passed stricter laws about 24/7 chaining/penning. In your state they are trying to pass laws. http://www.unchainpadogs.com/ Unfortunately where I live there are no laws either, just basic requirements for shelter and food. It is hard to believe that it is legal to chain a dog outside in a snow storm, negative temps. and provide nothing more than a wood box. Every year dogs die outside because their owners didn't want to provide for them and let them freeze and get heat stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 The USDA isn't really in the business of regulating private ownership (unless you have a USDA license for owning a tiger and such). The real burden lies within local jurisdictions (states, counties and towns) and many have already passed stricter laws about 24/7 chaining/penning. In your state they are trying to pass laws. http://www.unchainpadogs.com/ Unfortunately where I live there are no laws either, just basic requirements for shelter and food. It is hard to believe that it is legal to chain a dog outside in a snow storm, negative temps. and provide nothing more than a wood box. Every year dogs die outside because their owners didn't want to provide for them and let them freeze and get heat stroke. Wasn't the USDA trying to change kennel licence requirements? (Just for my information - I wasn't closely following the debate). This anti-tethering campaign is interesting....I'm going to contact my state representative to see where she stands on the issue. I don't understand if a cop can pull you over when you are doing something wrong, why a dog warden can't knock on a door and say - hey, does that dog have a license? Where's your rabies tag? Years ago we had such a knock on our door when we lived in town - we had a nice Terrier mutt and a BC cross, both adopted from the local SPCA. They had a pen outside and, of course, were inside with us most of the time. The cruelty officer knocked when Ken was home and asked to see the dogs, their licences, their certificates, any recent vet visits, the whole shebang. He handed everything back to DH with a surprised look saying, "I really don't see what the problem is here, Mr. "Smith" - your dogs are better treated than a lot of kids I've seen." DH said, "I know what the problem is - Mr "Smith" lives across the street (directly behind our house). I'm Mr. "Jones"! And most certainly, a little terrier dog - brown instead of cream colored but otherwise much like our Willie was out in a dog coup behind the house while the couple and their five children came and went - much like this little dog that concerns me. It had a wooden dog house and a food dish - just like this little dog. Animal control confiscated the dog and the family was not allowed to adopt another form the SPCA. It just so happens that our OTHER neighbor who had a bird's eye view of the family's back yard was a board member of the local SPCA and a second neighbor was a major patroness of the same organization so I guess between them, they had more "juice" than I do now...I knew them both quite well - sadly one has died and the other moved away. Perhaps its time I've made some new SPCA friends... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Update - both the dog warden and cruelty officer have checked on the dog. Both times, the rope was not tangled and it was in its house and had a pan beside it that they assumed was food or water - they can't go on the property of course, and the dog is some distance from the property line. The cruelty officer said she would continue to keep an eye on it and if/when the snow prevents it from getting into the dog house they can do something but at the moment, it has everything that the owners are legally required to give it. Food and shelter - albeit a poor shelter but it has a roof - I felt badly for the cruelty officer - she was young and sympathetic. I do believe she will continue to keep an eye on the dog - and so will I. If I see the people outside, I will stop to offer to buy the dog - they don't answer their door or telephone messages. This is a good example of the emphasis on the wrong things...the USDA should also address some issues related to individual ownership. I guess if the dog warden busted them for no license, no rabies shot, then he'd have to go after "everyone" - but I recently got a ticket for running a right on red signal (I honestly didn't think that one had to stop if the intersection was clear!) and I know for a fact plenty of other people do the same thing I did at the same intersection and most don't get ticketed so there's really no difference in my mind. Liz Hi Liz! I am also in PA....and a little perplexed. I talk to our dog warden routinely...he inspects my kennels. In our county, our dog wardens DO canvass the neighborhoods and DO knock on doors asking to see proof of license and rabies. I can't understand why your dog warden would not do the same thing. This, of course, would probably not help the chaining situation if all looks legal. When we first got married, we lived in a duplex apt. Our upstairs neighbors chained their dog. We routinely made sure it had water and shelter (which annoyed them.) After talking to them a lot, along with the local dog wardens help, we convinced them to surrender the dog to someone who would take care of it. They did. And promptly 5 months later, got a baby PUPPY who peed and pooped on the carpet (the young girl owner was a clean-fanatic) and it ended up living on the porch at 12 weeks of age in the cold month of February. We again intervened, and convinced them to give us the puppy....and we found a wonderful home for it. Finally, they moved. Enter the new neighbors with a young Dobie. The neglect the first dogs endured could not equal the outright abuse the new neighbors dog was subjected to. One day they went away for the weekend and had someone come in to let the dog out (which they did not do on a routine basis.) You can imagine the mess they came home to. The young man literally THREW the dog down the stairs as punishment....then called him back up the steps (I remember hearing the tick-tick-tick of the toenails as the dog probably cringed going up the stairs.) Then he screamed at the dog and threw it back down the stairs. I will never forget my husband banging on their door and when the guy opened it, my husband grabbed him by his shirt collar, lifted him up (DH is 6'2"; this guy was about 5'7") and told him that if that dog was touched one more time, DH would personally come up there and throw HIM down the stairs. They gave the dog away to someone right after that, and shortly thereafter, we moved. So those are the ways we have had to deal with neglect and abuse. At the time, I was an active obedience instructor and tried to educate both these couples...but some people just don't get it. I used to wonder why dog abusers always ended up renting the apt. above ours So keep your eyes peeled and look for an opportunity to intervene. I admire your interest in doing the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Hi Liz! I am also in PA....and a little perplexed. I talk to our dog warden routinely...he inspects my kennels. In our county, our dog wardens DO canvass the neighborhoods and DO knock on doors asking to see proof of license and rabies. I can't understand why your dog warden would not do the same thing. This, of course, would probably not help the chaining situation if all looks legal. When we first got married, we lived in a duplex apt. Our upstairs neighbors chained their dog. We routinely made sure it had water and shelter (which annoyed them.) After talking to them a lot, along with the local dog wardens help, we convinced them to surrender the dog to someone who would take care of it. They did. And promptly 5 months later, got a baby PUPPY who peed and pooped on the carpet (the young girl owner was a clean-fanatic) and it ended up living on the porch at 12 weeks of age in the cold month of February. We again intervened, and convinced them to give us the puppy....and we found a wonderful home for it. Finally, they moved. Enter the new neighbors with a young Dobie. The neglect the first dogs endured could not equal the outright abuse the new neighbors dog was subjected to. One day they went away for the weekend and had someone come in to let the dog out (which they did not do on a routine basis.) You can imagine the mess they came home to. The young man literally THREW the dog down the stairs as punishment....then called him back up the steps (I remember hearing the tick-tick-tick of the toenails as the dog probably cringed going up the stairs.) Then he screamed at the dog and threw it back down the stairs. I will never forget my husband banging on their door and when the guy opened it, my husband grabbed him by his shirt collar, lifted him up (DH is 6'2"; this guy was about 5'7") and told him that if that dog was touched one more time, DH would personally come up there and throw HIM down the stairs. They gave the dog away to someone right after that, and shortly thereafter, we moved. So those are the ways we have had to deal with neglect and abuse. At the time, I was an active obedience instructor and tried to educate both these couples...but some people just don't get it. I used to wonder why dog abusers always ended up renting the apt. above ours :angry:/>/> So keep your eyes peeled and look for an opportunity to intervene. I admire your interest in doing the right thing. You've done some great things to help those dogs - I wish I could report I have been as successful. There have been some small changes so I think perhaps someone talked with the owners. There is now straw in the dog coup. I did manage to talk to the owner myself yesterday but with no success. The dog is a female, 12 1/2 years old. He bought her as a pup from the Amish. With no training, she was good at doing what he wanted with the cattle. He no longer has animals. I offered to give the dog a good home and he said the dog was nippy and defensive (no surprise because she's on a rope!) and wouldn't want anything to come back on him if he gave up the dog. I explained that wouldn't happen. Then he said his kids would miss her - they play ball with her now and then. Then he finally coughed up the true reason why he has her - she's a watch dog and not friendly to strangers. We talked about Border Collies in general and older ones in particular. He said that he brings her in on cold nights - and that he was planning to get a run line. I showed him Robin and talked about how I feed him and Ladybug (same age as this dog, suggesting that some wet food in addition to her kibble would add needed calories to her diet for the winter. I left him my husband's business card which he carefully tucked in his wallet and told him to call if he wanted more straw. I felt a little better after talking with him. At least he knows that someone is watching the dog's condition and we parted on good terms so hopefully he knows that he can call if he gets fed up trudging out to the dog coop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Good work, Liz. Thanks for following up, and I hope he does indeed bring the dog in on cold nights. Jovi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 You've done some great things to help those dogs - I wish I could report I have been as successful. There have been some small changes so I think perhaps someone talked with the owners. There is now straw in the dog coup. But you HAVE done good things for the dog, Liz. The owner is now AWARE that people are watching. You have been as successful as you legally can be. The dog now has bedding and has an advocate...you! I applaud you for the diplomatic way you talked with the owner. He does not feel threatened by you, yet knows you will be watching and willing to help. In my opinion, you did a terrific job. I thank you on behalf of that dog. And who knows what the future will bring.... :)/> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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