bcnewe2 Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I got my pup off Craigslist. Well considering they don't "sell" pups on craigslist I will assume you adopted your pup off CraigsList. I'm not really impressed with how they run the dog's for adoption over there. I don't care if they choose to sell dogs off craigslist or not. They do it in the newspaper and on other websites so what's the difference. Either do your homework or not. But the way it is now, I think there are byb's listing their dogs for adoption instead of for sale but they really are selling them. Sets the situation up for lying through the whole thing. JMHO And no I don't mean you personally Notorious just the general "you". I think it's better to understand what a red-flag is and what questions to ask rather than to point fingers. Not everyone is known and I'd rather not call someone out just because of a hunch. If I was getting a puppy and didn't know anyone, I'd be doing all the homework I could. Reading everything on here so I could figure out how to tell a good "breeder" from a bad. I'm not fond of the word breeder. IMO a breeder is someone who is breeding dogs to sell for profit only, where most good BC breeders are breeding their dogs to get another dog from that cross or have people asking about pups out of particular dogs but they are still lumped into the same "breeder" title. Just a little pet peeve of mine with no real way of changing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffles Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 If you read what I said before, you would see I meant a constructive discussion, not "pointing fingers" or spreading rumors. I thought it would be a beneficial part of the board, since the topic of breeders keeps popping up anyway. I have a great breeder who doesn't have any of your red flags. I was just trying to come up with ideas to help others. But you said you wanted to discuss breeders openly in response to someone saying that this board does not typically like to give out breeders openly. So it is implied that you wanted to be able to say names of people and breeders and be able to discuss them openly. No one, obviously on this board has an issue with discussing breeding practices but do not typically want to name a person and then say their opinion openly. There are numerous threads along with the 'read this first' that discuss the beliefs of breeding practices held by most on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted September 26, 2012 Report Share Posted September 26, 2012 I'm not fond of the word breeder. IMO a breeder is someone who is breeding dogs to sell for profit only, where most good BC breeders are breeding their dogs to get another dog from that cross or have people asking about pups out of particular dogs but they are still lumped into the same "breeder" title. Just a little pet peeve of mine with no real way of changing it. I refer to those who sell for profit only as 'producers'. IMO a breeder puts time,money, thought and a lot of other stuff into breeding good dogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandog Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 This breeder is such a hypocrite. For years she posted on her website about how she completely against breeding Border Collies for conformation, and how she felt it was an injustice for the breed. It's been several years now but out of the blue she ends up showing conformation, going as far as to co-own dogs with the infamous Bayshore. Not a good situation. A guy up here has a blue merle from her that frequents a dog park I go too - the dog is ball obsessed like you wouldn't believe. I'm not a fan. Yes, I will jump on the bandwagon and say, consider rescue. Petfinder. This time of year there ARE purebred puppies in shelters and rescue organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 I refer to those who sell for profit only as 'producers'. IMO a breeder puts time,money, thought and a lot of other stuff into breeding good dogs Ok then I can put that little pet peeve to rest. I like that word. Producers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 A guy up here has a blue merle from her that frequents a dog park I go too - the dog is ball obsessed like you wouldn't believe. I'm not a fan. I would never recommend this breeder but I've met a few of her dogs, including the one who lives with me, and they are all fine sports and/or companion animals. Quinn is very intense about his toys... when we are playing. If you see us at the beach, he will be putting considerable effort into convincing me to throw for him (when he isn't putting considerable effort into convincing me we should take home any child we encounter with promises that he will take good care of it ). If you saw Quinn at the office with me, you would see a well mannered, laid back dog who loves it when I tell him "go say hi" which means greet the person at the front desk who is usually asking for a Border Collie hello. Anyway, no would not recommend this breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 A guy up here has a blue merle from her that frequents a dog park I go too - the dog is ball obsessed like you wouldn't believe. I'm not a fan. And what's wrong with ball-obsessed? If someone has a pet BC than it may need that healthy obsession just to be sane. I also wouldn't write off a particular breeding because of how a sold dog was raised. Not that I'm supporting this breeder at all, but it seems like a silly thing to judge a breeder by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandog Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 And what's wrong with ball-obsessed? If someone has a pet BC than it may need that healthy obsession just to be sane. I also wouldn't write off a particular breeding because of how a sold dog was raised. Not that I'm supporting this breeder at all, but it seems like a silly thing to judge a breeder by. Obsession is not healthy. I manage my Border Collie by providing her with many outlets and activities. She is very driven, likes work, but would I call her obsessed over anything in a good way? No. She is obsessed with trees and will strip the bark off of them when over stimulated (i.e someone knocks at the door) or hang from and break branches. Oh and since this last post I've heard from a gal who had a dog of her breeding dumped in a rescue. Really unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Oh and since this last post I've heard from a gal who had a dog of her breeding dumped in a rescue. Really unfortunate. If the dog was "dumped" because the owner couldn't/wouldn't manage the dog; then this was a failure on the part of the owner not the breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ms/Mr Vandog wrote: "Obsession is not healthy." Ah. So where might one find a healthy Border Collie? Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 LOL! Or a healthy sheepdogger! As we are kinda obsessed as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The ability to "obsess" can also be defined as the ability to be really focussed. My dogs are really focussed on livestock (and balls). It's all point-of-view. Some obsessions (when the dog has the ability also to turn off when needed) are good; some are not. A lot of the difference is handling, training, or management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 My shrink (yup, I'm nuts) and I were talking about how I keep my house clean all the time. I told him that some of my friends describe me as OCD. He told me that the difference between someone who is OCD and someone who is habitually neat is that the OCD person gets no satisfaction from their constant struggle to achieve cleanness or neatness. The person who is habitually neat simply maintains a personal standard, is satisfied with it and doesn't fall apart if it occasionally isn't met. I think there are dogs who are focused, and enjoy "getting it right." I think there are other dogs who are obsessive and are compelled to carry out certain behaviors without deriving any satisfaction from them. Those dogs are not happy. (In that moment) I have read here that if certain behaviors become habitual, the dog can become obsessive about them. It is said that Border Collies are more prone to this than other breeds. I saw this in my own dog once. When I am taking her out for a walk she is excited as I put together my poop-bags etc. When we step out the door there is a momentary pause as I lock the door. In that moment, Sugarfoot started to blow off energy by turning a couple of circles while I locked the door. After a while, it didn't matter if I stopped to lock the door or not. She would still do the two circles, even if I was walking into her at the time. Gradually her demeanor while circling became different. It wasn't a "Let's GO!" feel, it was a "Wait, I have to do my circles" feel. I began having her sit while I locked the door and gave her a treat as we passed the "circling spot." Even with the sitting and the treats it took a long time to extinguish this behavior. In fact, she will still do it if I haven't asked for a sit and am taking too long at the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc soul sista Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Here in MN, I know Susane Hoffman(who is Vice President of the WWSDA) is planning a spring/summer litter....her and her husband are both VERY invilved in USBCHA trials and have been training/handling for quite awhile...they breed once every 4 years or so only when they are ready to add another training partner for each of themselves. They put an extreme amount of time in choosing the sire and making sure both parents are health tested above and beyond!!! There pups are well cared for and socialized! The bitch they are using is running in open and is very nice....super sweet to boot!! Another breeder I know of possibly having a summer litter is Meg Johnson(Silver wind farm)...she is an up and coming talented open handler and has worked hard to produce some excellent dogs in her breeding program. She has alot of imported dogs, including Aled Owen lines and Serge Van derZweep?(murdered the spelling)... Lori Perry might also be having another good litter in the next year.... That's all I got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't understand why we don't discuss breeders openly. I think it would be extremely helpful. I brought this up once before. Because breeding is super important, and breeders are important to the breed (lol), it's easy to step on toes. Public internet forums are difficult places to say things that can be sensitive. It's easy to keep discussion pleasant on general topics, and not give offense. When one gets into names, and individual cases - it's very natural to feel defensive. After all, one never knows who is out there reading these things. A careless word is impossible to take back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't know Susan Hoffman but I know Meg Johnson and Lori Perry. Both are excellent folks and I would get a dog from them with no hesitation. Highly recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ms/Mr Vandog wrote: "Obsession is not healthy." Ah. So where might one find a healthy Border Collie? Donald McCaig BA-zing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandog Posted October 10, 2012 Report Share Posted October 10, 2012 The ability to "obsess" can also be defined as the ability to be really focussed. My dogs are really focussed on livestock (and balls). It's all point-of-view. Some obsessions (when the dog has the ability also to turn off when needed) are good; some are not. A lot of the difference is handling, training, or management. Ditto, exactly. I'm talking about unhealthy obsession but I figured people here knew the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 I'm talking about unhealthy obsession but I figured people here knew the difference I think many of us do. My point was it is hard to know sometimes the "health" of the obsession when you see the dog only in one context. People seeing Quinn at the beach, see a dog obsessed with his toy. They might think, "crazy border collie. I could never live with a nonstop dog like that." 8 years ago, I would have been one of those people, not realizing such intensity is not 24/7 because the only time I saw them was when they were engaged in an activity that had them acting enthused, focused, and "obsessed." It's kind of like trying to explain to my vet that Quinn is actually a very laid back dog. He always comments on how high strung Quinn must be. He only sees the dog when he is stressed and unhappy to be at a place he finds upsetting. I finally stopped trying to explain that despite Quinn's nerves at the clinic (or intensity at the beach), he is an incredibly easy dog to live with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 11, 2012 Report Share Posted October 11, 2012 It's kind of like trying to explain to my vet that Quinn is actually a very laid back dog. He always comments on how high strung Quinn must be. He only sees the dog when he is stressed and unhappy to be at a place he finds upsetting. And my vets and Celt's therapist feel quite the opposite. Compared to so many of their patients, my dogs appear rather laid back. It's not that they are not concerned but we spent a lot of effort when they were young, making "dry runs" at the vet's office (and other locations) where all they got to do was socialize and get treats, so they are quite at home there, even though they are a little bit apprehensive, as is anyone who is not quite sure what's going to happen and if they will like it. But the other big thing is that, compared to so many other dogs at these appointments, they are reasonably well-behaved and well-trained, and used to being taken places. I feel for so many dogs that are totally freaked out, and it's not just because it's the vet - it's often because they do not get to go outside their normal, small world of house, yard, car, and maybe local neighborhood walk. So many people don't realize what a favor they do their dogs when they get them out and socialized at a young age. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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