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Red Dawn Border Collies?

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I've been looking at Border collies and I want a serious working stock dog, because like most of you, I believe Border collies that are bred for stock work will be great in all other avenues. Red Dawn BCs look good, but I would like other opinions on them. Any other breeder suggestions are very welcome too. :)

 

http://www.reddawnborders.com/

 

EDIT: Actually, I just realized they are registered with the AKC.... That does not suit well with me. I just need more breeder suggestions now.. :(

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After about a minute of looking through that web site I gathered a whole forest of "red flags". Your conclusion is right I think, look elsewhere.

I am sure that are other forummembers that can direct you to real breeders for stockwork, I only know a few Icelandic ones.

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Welcome! You've come to a good place to learn about Border Collies. Make sure you read "Read This First" and ask questions - and be prepared for honest answers.

 

Red Dawn is not a breeder that I would ever recommend to anyone - she is about as far from responsible as anyone I can think of. There may be some good dogs back in some of the bloodlines but you can say that about any backyard or volume-bred breeder.

 

It might help people to make recommendations if they knew your approximate vacinity.

 

Best wishes for trying to purchase responsibly.

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Last I heard Red dawn isn't breeding much anymore. Her last litter was over 2 years ago. :) you could always check out c-horse.

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If Red Dawn is not a suitable breeder and C-Horse is an affiliate of Red Dawn, then I would think the same red flags that applied to Red Dawn would also apply to C-horse.

 

J.

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If Red Dawn is not a suitable breeder and C-Horse is an affiliate of Red Dawn, then I would think the same red flags that applied to Red Dawn would also apply to C-horse.

 

J.

But remember, Julie, that even here there are people who see nothing wrong with breeding for sports, color, or ACK - in spite of the stated position of the boards. You make a very valid point, as always.

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C horse from what I understand does have ABCA dogs and does trials with her/their dogs and works them. And I have heard on here compliment of the handlers at trial...

 

So other then who she chooses to associate with... why shouldn't she be consider an option?

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[quote name='SS Cressa' timestamp='1348255840' post='426421'

]

So other then who she chooses to associate with... why shouldn't she be consider an option?

Who you associate with does say a lot about what you stand for and to a lot of people, that means something. If you choose to be linked with someone, or allow someone to link with you, who is less-than-reputable, then you are, by association, less-than-reputable yourself. Seems obvious to me.

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Have you Googled c-horse? I found nothing to recommend them as a breeder. All the videos were AKC course A. Perhaps the people you say made favorable comments about their "trialing" were talking AKC? If so, that says something. Or maybe I had trouble understanding what you were trying to say.

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They trial USBCHA, AKC, and AHBA. AKC was I think more for their clients (That was just the impression never asked them.).

 

I vaguely remember the tread since its from 2-4 years ago. I had asked about her daughter handling the dogs and had people(don't know who, nor did I asked them their credentials to comment) say she was a decent handler.

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I live in Wisconsin but I have no problem with shipping a puppy. I'm not getting a puppy for a while though, and I was only asking here for future reference. Are there any breeders off the top of anyone's heads? I would love to hear them, or anyone can PM me, as I noticed (through searching through the forums) many do not feel comfortable giving out breeders in public. :unsure:

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Gosh feel silly. I was thinking of double M stockdog. Don't know much about C horse. Sorry about the confusion.

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Hi! I'm in WI, too. We are very lucky to have an active stock dog community here.

 

www.wwsda.org

 

The club and various members hold several trials and clinics throughout the year. Becoming a member and/or attending trials is a great way to meet open handlers and learn about any planned litters, etc.

 

Hopefully I'll see you at a trial sometime!

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There are some excellent breeders/trainers/handlers involved with wwsda.org and that would be a good organization to begin with in your research. Try going to a few trials, volunteer if you can, meet people, ask questions, and make connections.

 

Best wishes!

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I would love to hear them, or anyone can PM me, as I noticed (through searching through the forums) many do not feel comfortable giving out breeders in public. :unsure:

 

I don't understand why we don't discuss breeders openly. I think it would be extremely helpful. I brought this up once before.

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Athena, it's because people can be sued!

 

If you are a breeder and even though you've had many years breeding, breed few litters you happen to have a litter that has a high degree of CHD and a pup with epilepsy-word soon spreads that "Athena is a terrible breeder" now is this true or not?

 

There are some key things to avoid, primarily notice the number of litters/year-IMO anyone with more than 2 litters/year is at least a yellow flag. Now if those litters have a large number of colours-that is a red flag.

 

dual registered is at least a yellow but the fact they advertise that their dogs are dual is a red flag

 

AKC or other registries is a red flag. while ABCA is not a guarentee of quality it is the primary working registry

 

Health checks-well I find that most whose web sites brag on health testing have priorities other than work. If you ask many working breeders you can learn if their dogs are checked or not, but few use the health testing as an advertisement. And unfortunately many do not test-but that is another subject

 

Titles or wins. Check this out. Is that State Ch a dog that won in a novice trial in an arena or is it a double lift trial winner? AKC titles mean the owner can train a dog( or pay someone to train it) and the dog probably has enough drive to do some sort of 'sports', even a little herding.

 

Some other red flags that I can think of are : insisting the pups leave at 7 weeks or charging board for them after that. If the web page has pictures, sometimes that is agood tell. Once saw a site where it was obvios the dogs lived on wire(the feet have a certain look).

 

I think that while not being a good idea to discuss breeders there could be a list of yellow/red flags which could help some people

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Exactly what Pam said.

 

Also, charging more for flashy colors, merle, etc. is a red flag. I didn't realize until recently that some breeders actually charge more if it is a split face or has blue eyes! WTF? Educating people on what to look for in a decent breeder is far better than pointing fingers and naming names. If people have the knowledge and know what to look for, they can make that decision on their own. IMO that is better than a list of people to avoid.

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Probably because everyone knows that you can't please all the people, all the time. They don't want to risk getting bashed or being labeled as one of those people, who buy from one of those breeders. It would be a great discussion, if it was informative but not nasty.

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If you read what I said before, you would see I meant a constructive discussion, not "pointing fingers" or spreading rumors. I thought it would be a beneficial part of the board, since the topic of breeders keeps popping up anyway.

 

I have a great breeder who doesn't have any of your red flags. I was just trying to come up with ideas to help others.

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