House Soiling :(

[MommaLove]

I'm at a bit of a loss here. I'm not sure if this is a behavioural issue or a medical one, but at the moment I'm leaning towards behavioural, as there are no obvious signs of any medical troubles.

 

Juno went from having almost no potty accidents in the house at 14wks, to having a few per day, to now having several per day at nearly 17wks. At first I thought I was being too lax and giving her too much freedom in the house, and went back to a bit more structure - crating her when I couldn't keep a close eye on her, taking her out more frequently, etc.

 

For the past few days, Juno has peed and/or pooped when I've taken her out, and then pees on the floor again shortly after I bring her back inside, sometimes almost immediately after coming in. Yesterday was the worst - SIX pees on the floor within as many hours, and two poops. She was outside with my husband and children, and pooped on the floor immediately after coming back inside. Then, after two hours outdoors with us (during which time she did indeed go pee), she peed on the floor before I even had the chance to return her to her crate.

 

I've never punished for a potty accident, but now Juno is rolling over belly-up every time she does it. If I have to mop my kids' playroom one more time, I think I might go bonkers.

 

I'm not sure what I can do here to prevent potty accidents beyond what I'm already doing, short of leaving Juno outside all day. This is incredibly frustrating! Between my baby, my toddler, and now Juno, way too much of my day is spent dealing with other people's waste. Grr.

[Mdaniels]

Always first rule of thumb is to make sure there are no medical issues, even if none are visible to you. I would definitely take Juno to the vet to rule any issues out. Good luck.

[WWBC]

Yep, definitely get her checked. It is not unusual for young puppies, especially females, to get a uti(urinary tract infection). They will act normally and seem to feel ok, but squat to pee frequently. It is an easy fix with the right antibiotic

[gcv-border]

Yes, go see the vet. UTIs often have no outward signs. The vet may have to get a sterile bladder sample (insert needle directly into bladder to remove sterile urine) and send it off to the lab for culturing to determine (1) if there is a bacterial infection and (2) which bacteria is present - in order to prescribe the correct antibiotic.

 

Jovi

[Sue R]

There is nothing more frustrating than potty issues, I know.

 

One thing I noticed from what you wrote is that Juno was outside with family and I'm sure lots of activity. I'm wondering if, even with the time and opportunity to potty (which she did), if she is still not too preoccupied with activity to have done *all* her business.

 

When I take a pup out to go potty, I do it with minimal distractions. In other words, leaving the other dogs inside and not making it a playtime. And, particularly with our little Megan, I had to make sure she peed at least twice (she is a marker) before I brought her inside because she does not void with one pee (I think she "saves" some for doing some marking and so her bladder is never emptied at one go).

 

You said she peed inside six times in six hours. That sounds like my Dan who had no bladder issues but just was a frequent voider (as an adult, he's the opposite, go figure). Until he was just about six months old, I had to take him out hourly (when he would pee quickly each trip) if I didn't want to risk an accident in the house. And then, bingo! One day he got frantic in the house because he wanted to go out to do his business, and he's been rock-solidly housebroken ever since. But I was beginning to despair at six months - and yet, in an x-pen attached to his crate as a pup, he never went from the time we got him at eight weeks, even on work days when he was confined from 7 am until almost 3 pm. And I was properly cleaning up after any accident when loose with enzymatic cleaner (and not scolding him so that he would not sneak off to go unobserved).

 

So, is she emptying completely each trip out? Does she have potty trips versus playtime trips out (making doing her business a business trip and not an outing)? Are you cleaning up inside with an enzymatic cleaner made for destroying the "this is the right place to go" odor? Is any of this submissive urination (our Megan did this, and we once had a GSD bitch who could not even live in the house because she would submissively urinate at any voice or movement she found the least bit upsetting - and, with four children, there was a lot of noise and action in the house)? She could even be submissively urinating if she is worried about anything.

 

Best wishes!

[juliepoudrier]

All good advice. The red flag for me was that you said she's outside for some period of time, but not that she's being taken out specifically to go potty. For a puppy, being outside doesn't automatically = going potty, or eliminating fully.

 

J.

[rushdoggie]

Yep, check on the UTI...as girls grow sometimes their anatomy allows a little back flow which can cause a UTI. Also, does she go on command? The most useful thing I ever taught any dog was to eliminate on command, which allows you to ensure shes gone before you let her run around, and once more before she comes in the house.

[2 Devils]

A couple things I noticed as well:

 

1. Take her into the vet to check for a UTI.

 

2. Make sure she is actually emptying her bladder (and bowels) fully when she does go potty. Some dogs get caught up with oh look that leaf is blowing and stop pottying and go play instead. Some dogs can't completely empty their bladders in one try. I know this is more common in some male dogs but gather it could be the same with females. I have a dog like this and so does a teammate whom is a vet.

 

3. I would set aside potty time again, not just play time outside. Being outside a lot means she may be drinking a lot more water meaning she has to pee a lot more. I have a 18 week old puppy and he has been pretty good but I let him out offleash with the other dogs BUT I go out and make sure he actually does his business and not the Pretend squat... the one where I will squat for a half second and pretend I am peeing and them off and running.

 

4. I wouldn't depend on your husband and kids to make sure she is pottying before coming back inside. If they were outside playing chances are they may not really have noticed.

[Tiga's_mom]

Definitely another vote for checking for a UTI. We were having the same problem with Annie and it was a UTI that took 3 rounds of antibiotics to get rid of. Now that it's gone the messes in the house have stopped.

[MommaLove]

There is nothing more frustrating than potty issues, I know.

 

One thing I noticed from what you wrote is that Juno was outside with family and I'm sure lots of activity. I'm wondering if, even with the time and opportunity to potty (which she did), if she is still not too preoccupied with activity to have done *all* her business.

 

When I take a pup out to go potty, I do it with minimal distractions. In other words, leaving the other dogs inside and not making it a playtime. And, particularly with our little Megan, I had to make sure she peed at least twice (she is a marker) before I brought her inside because she does not void with one pee (I think she "saves" some for doing some marking and so her bladder is never emptied at one go).

 

You said she peed inside six times in six hours. That sounds like my Dan who had no bladder issues but just was a frequent voider (as an adult, he's the opposite, go figure). Until he was just about six months old, I had to take him out hourly (when he would pee quickly each trip) if I didn't want to risk an accident in the house. And then, bingo! One day he got frantic in the house because he wanted to go out to do his business, and he's been rock-solidly housebroken ever since. But I was beginning to despair at six months - and yet, in an x-pen attached to his crate as a pup, he never went from the time we got him at eight weeks, even on work days when he was confined from 7 am until almost 3 pm. And I was properly cleaning up after any accident when loose with enzymatic cleaner (and not scolding him so that he would not sneak off to go unobserved).

 

So, is she emptying completely each trip out? Does she have potty trips versus playtime trips out (making doing her business a business trip and not an outing)? Are you cleaning up inside with an enzymatic cleaner made for destroying the "this is the right place to go" odor? Is any of this submissive urination (our Megan did this, and we once had a GSD bitch who could not even live in the house because she would submissively urinate at any voice or movement she found the least bit upsetting - and, with four children, there was a lot of noise and action in the house)? She could even be submissively urinating if she is worried about anything.

 

Best wishes!

 

Thanks for the advice!

 

Juno does have regular potty times when I take her out alone to eliminate. I take her for a brisk walk to stimulate bowel/bladder action and reward her for going in the appropriate place. I haven't added a cue yet, but plan to soon. Until recently, these potty breaks were sufficient and there were minimal accidents. No longer!

 

Today Juno had accidents in the house shortly after every potty break. She was crated overnight, then taken out immediately at 6am. She peed outside twice, pooped, and then peed on the floor after coming back in, about 6:30ish. 8am, another potty break before the kids got up. 8:30, another accident.

 

It doesn't seem to matter how often I take her out, and she does go a couple of times before I bring her back in. With all the mentions of UTI, I'm going to take her in to get checked. We leave on vacation in the morning, so unfortunately we won't see our vet until we return next week.

[WWBC]

So you are saying that you won't be getting her checked for a UTI until next week? Do you have any idea how uncomfortable a UTI is? Not to mention that she doesn't need to have what could be a minor issue with a UTI left untreated to develop into something worse. I hope you are going to get her checked sooner rather than later.

[WildFlower]

^^^ Agreed.

[Liz P]

That's not fair. She needs to be checked for a UTI now. If she has one and it goes untreated it is not only extremely uncomfortable, there is the potential for it to spread up to the kidneys and cause permanent damage. Your puppy is more important than your vacation.

[MommaLove]

So you are saying that you won't be getting her checked for a UTI until next week? Do you have any idea how uncomfortable a UTI is? Not to mention that she doesn't need to have what could be a minor issue with a UTI left untreated to develop into something worse. I hope you are going to get her checked sooner rather than later.

 

We have five days available for our camping trip, which DH has scheduled time off work for and my children have been waiting for since my pregnancy prevented us from going last summer. The van is packed, and we are scheduled to leave at 8am. We budgeted very carefully for this trip, because DH had to take the time off and won't be paid again until next week. We have hired help coming to run our farm for five days, which is costing a pretty penny. If I were to delay our departure waiting to get in to the vet (which I can guarantee would not happen tomorrow, as our vet is tightly scheduled), we'd not only be out of a paid day's work AND a day's vacation (more likely two days, as we likely won't be seen tomorrow), but we'd still have to pay our farm help as well. My husband would be absolutely livid with me (actually, he'd probably just take the kids and go at 8am rather than wait around for me to take the dog to the vet).

 

So, yes, Juno will have to wait five more days before she sees the vet. I can't pay outrageous vet bills until then, anyway. Considering how much time and money our family has invested in her so far, it would be horribly unfair of me to ask five other people to put their long-awaited and carefully-budgeted short vacation on hold because our pup is peeing a lot. It may sound harsh, but that's how the cookie crumbles. If Juno seems uncomfortable at all while we are away, I'll be sure to find a vet in the closest town, but since right now she is showing zero signs of discomfort, I'm sure she'll be fine til Monday.

 

And, fyi, our family has revolved around Juno for the past two months. We scheduled our vaca so she wouldn't miss puppy class (Tuesday nights). We've taken her everywhere with us. Now it's time for me to focus on my family a bit more for five days. And Juno will have the adventure of a lifetime, too.

[WWBC]

So, let the rest of them go and then you could catch up with them a day later..........I truly hope nothing serious happens to your dog. dogs are expensive, it's just a fact of life. I guess if one of the kids was complaining of discomfort and burning when she peed, and peeing all the time, or at least trying to pee.....it would be different. Poor pup is all I can say. Enjoy your trip.

 

It sounds like your life has revolved around Juno as long as it was convenient.

[MommaLove]

So, let the rest of them go and then you could catch up with them a day later..........I truly hope nothing serious happens to your dog. dogs are expensive, it's just a fact of life. I guess if one of the kids was complaining of discomfort and burning when she peed, and peeing all the time, or at least trying to pee.....it would be different. Poor pup is all I can say. Enjoy your trip.

 

It sounds like your life has revolved around Juno as long as it was convenient.

 

I can't "catch up" a day later. First of all, there's no way we can afford to double the gas budget. Second of all, we're taking a ferry over to an island, and can't afford to double the ferry fee for a second vehicle. Third of all, my husband would have a hell of a time road tripping with a 5yo, 4yo, 2yo and baby, and the 2 other dogs, by himself. It is a 10hr drive just to reach the ferry.

 

I know full well that dogs are expensive. We've had dogs for over 12 years. I take great offense to your suggestion that we care for Juno only when it is convenient for us, as you have no idea what we have done with/for her or what our life circumstances are. In this one instance, she will have to wait a few days before she sees the vet. Maybe you'd be willing to sacrifice your family's vacation for a *possible * UTI, great for you and your dog. It must feel great to pass judgement on the internet.

[WWBC]

Your taking offense at my statement is ok by me, you can take it however you want. It is a simple statement and if you want to consider it a judgement so be it.

I happen to take my dog's health seriously, so yes, I would, indeed have, altered plans to take care of concerns about my dog's health. That's not a judgement either, simply a matter of choice, take it however you will. I repeat, enjoy your trip, poor pup.

[Maralynn]

Since you have farm sitters coming already perhaps you could leave Juno with them and they could take her to the vet sooner than Monday?

[MommaLove]

Since you have farm sitters coming already perhaps you could leave Juno with them and they could take her to the vet sooner than Monday?

 

I'm considering leaving Juno with my mother if the vet can see her sometime this week & my mother is agreeable. If not, perhaps my mother-in-law, but she's a cat person and detests dogs. The farm hand won't have a vehicle to get into town with.

 

Actually, as I'm typing I'm thinking that maybe if my mom can't/won't take Juno, she may call in a favour to her cousin who is a vet and request a house call. Who knows, I have plenty of phone calls to make before we leave in the morning.

[Jeri Jessee]

Maybe if you call your vet first thing (mine opens at 7:30 am) and explain your circumstances (leaving on vacation) they will see you right away. I know that mine would. And a urinalysis and a round of antibiotics (if needed) should not be too terribly expensive. We also have 24 hour clinics where I live but that might not be an option for you. Hopefully you can be on your way without much of a delay and all of you, including Juno, can enjoy your trip. Good luck!

[Sue R]

I'm considering leaving Juno with my mother if the vet can see her sometime this week & my mother is agreeable. If not, perhaps my mother-in-law, but she's a cat person and detests dogs. The farm hand won't have a vehicle to get into town with.

 

Actually, as I'm typing I'm thinking that maybe if my mom can't/won't take Juno, she may call in a favour to her cousin who is a vet and request a house call. Who knows, I have plenty of phone calls to make before we leave in the morning.

Here's hoping you are able to work something out as you seem caught between a rock and a hard spot. A UTI should be pretty easy to diagnose with a urine sample.

[SecretBC]

I would really love to see you go five days with a raging UTI. Or really, more than that since it's possible the puppy has been suffering this for some time.

 

Wow. Just wow. I hope you enjoy your vacation.

[gcv-border]

You have probably already left on vacation, but I just have to put my 2 cents in:

 

I agree, it is very unfair to leave Juno undiagnosed with a probably UTI until you return from vacation --- BUT, as someone suggested, maybe your vet could squeeze you in before you left

 

or

 

if your vet knows you well enough, s/he may be liberal enough to supply you with antibiotics for a UTI. That way, you could run by and pick up the meds without taking the time for a urinalysis or the vet could call in an Rx at a pharmacy convenient to where you are going on vacation. (I am not sure what the legal implications are for prescribing such meds without a diagnosis, but I know I have benefitted from it for one of my pets.)

 

If anyone is worried about overuse of antibiotics, -> antibiotic resistance, etc., I agree with you. But I have also learned (through the death of an animal while waiting for the results of a diagnostic test before prescribing antibiotics) that in some instances, jumping on a potential infection with antibiotics in the early stages (without a definite, lab-certified diagnosis) can prevent a lot of complications later. If you and your vet are comfortable with a 'best guess', I do not see the downside. I would not take this approach with other medications, but IMO, timely use of an antibiotic can prevent future issues.

 

Jovi

[MommaLove]

When we arrived at our vacation destination, we took Juno to a local vet. As it turns out, she does not have a UTI.

 

My original feeling (if you look back at the first post) was that the house soiling was a behavioural issue. The vet said this was likely the case, as she could find nothing wrong with my pup.

 

With hindsight being 20/20, we didn't realise at the time of the house soiling that our beagle was beginning to go into heat for the first time (YES, she will be spayed - we were waiting for one or two heat cycles to allow her to mature first). I think Juno was marking in response to our beagle's heat.

 

Since our return from vacation, there has been not one single house soiling incident. Everything seems to be back to normal

[Sue R]

That is really good news all around. I'm grateful she didn't have a UTI and that the soiling problem seems to have been resolved. If you allow either the beagle or Juno to cycle, you may experience additional issues but I'm sure you will be prepared to deal with them if that happens.

 

Best wishes!

 

PS - I'm very glad you got her to the vet and were able to rule out an infection. Those are not pleasant in the least!