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Thought on the definition of the noun, "breed".


Cyberdog
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Please take a look at this dog's nose, as it is definitely not the typical canine nose. I have only seen one other Border Collie with a nose like this.

 

Regards,

nancy

 

Good eyes, Nancy! Most people didn't notice this. As far as I know, Sue is right. I think I heard this dog's mama had been turned into the rescue where the clinic was held, and had gotten into the sheep minerals while pregnant. Half of the litter had been stillborn, and many of the surviving pups had problems with cleft palate. Sad.

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I don't know the dog's history but I remember hearing about her - she had gotten into sheep mineral (I think it was) and the pups that were born had this cleft nose/cleft palate. The treatment and care was chronicled on Sarah's website with pictures once but I don't know if that is still there.

 

The dog did get into the mineral (or whatever it was) and the defects were diagnosed and treated, and the pups homed. An unfortunate situation but dealt with with care and compassion.

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Like Julie, I also have been told that James belongs to Barbara Starkey, along with several other beardie-coated Border Collies that Barbara has either produced or had in her kennel. Polly Matzinger has always been open about James' ownership, and according to Barbara, she (Barbara) was responsible for importing some these dogs.

Yep. IIRC Polly told me that she had taken James to trial for Barb and it wasn't meant to be a permanent thing, but it sort of turned in to that. James is a really neat dog.

 

J.

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Thought on the definition of the noun, "breed".
Here in lies the problem, a kennel club problem; where breed is strictly considered a noun and dog breeds are defined simply by looks and parentage. We here consider the definition of our breed not as a noun but a verb; where our breed is not defined by how it looks but by what it does. We back-up this attitude with our ROM process where any dog that can fulfill the verb definition of our breed can be included in our breed; clearly we are not stuck on parentage or looks for the definition of our breed.

 

 

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Here in lies the problem, a kennel club problem; where breed is strictly considered a noun and dog breeds are defined simply by looks and parentage. We here consider the definition of our breed not as a noun but a verb; where our breed is not defined by how it looks but by what it does. We back-up this attitude with our ROM process where any dog that can fulfill the verb definition of our breed can be included in our breed; clearly we are not stuck on parentage or looks for the definition of our breed.

I think you make a very good point, and well put.

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So,

 

1) The breed is still defined by the registry, mostly. Non-registered working farm/ranch dogs being the exception.

2) Appearance doesn't matter at all if ROM requirements are met. Personally, I think this is a good attitude to take for improving the overall welfare of the dogs within the registry.

 

I would still like to end this using another highly unlikely hypothetical situation/thought problem:

 

Don't you think some people would cause a fuss if this dog met all the ROM requirements and the handler wanted the dog to be added to the BC registry... ;)

 

DSCN0058a2-800x517.jpg

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ROM Process

 

All of these conditions must be met:

A. A pedigree of the dog should be supplied to the Secretary, giving all details available on the sire and dam, including registration numbers when available.

 

B. Evidence that both sire and dam have received an OFA rating of "good" or "excellent" hips, or Cornell University Veterinary Radiology Department reports stating that their hips are not dysplastic. (This condition may be impractical or impossible to meet in some cases. The ROM Committee has the authority to waive this condition in some circumstances.)

 

C. A report by a DACVO-certified Veterinary Ophthalmologist must be supplied, indicating that the dog seeking registration on merit has been examined within 24 months prior to the date of application and has been found free of heritable eye disease. CEA DNA test results indicating that the dog is not CEA Affected must also be supplied. In addition, either an OFA rating of "good" or "excellent" hips, or a Cornell University Veterinary Radiology Department report stating that the dog's hips are not dysplastic, based upon x-rays taken when the dog was two years old or older, must be supplied.

 

D. Fee: $100 non-refundable. The applicant will also be required to bear whatever cost may be incurred by the committee to meet eligibility requirements.

 

E. A video of the dog working livestock must be supplied to each member of the ROM Committee. That Committee will make a recommendation whether to refer to the full Board of Directors or not. If referred to the full Board, a video of the dog working livestock must be supplied to the rest of the Directors unless some of them have seen the dog and do not need a video.

 

F. The owner of the dog requesting registration on merit must be a member in good standing of the American Border Collie Association, Inc.

 

G. The dog or bitch cannot have been previously deregistered by the ABCA.

 

 

 

Working Qualifications (One or the other of these options must be met.)

A. Written proof that the dog seeking registration on merit has placed in the top 10% of three open, advertised National style and size trials judged under ISDS or USBCHA rules.

 

B. To pass the working qualifications, the dog must demonstrate outstanding abilities in outrun, lift, fetch, driving, and must satisfy the Directors as to his good balance, power, and eye. At least three of the Directors must see the dog in person working livestock at a place other than his home on livestock that he is not used to. In the event that the distance required to meet with 3 Directors is considered unreasonable, a handler may apply to the Board to substitute 1 or 2 of the 3 Directors required to see the dog in person with qualified handlers satisfactory to the Board.

 

 

Could the dog shown meet these requirements (including the hip evaluations)?

If yes, the dog pictured could be registered AND I think you'd find many handlers encouraging the owner of a dog that looks like the one above to get ROMed if it could pass the working standard.

 

 

Looks are not a definition within our breed (verb).

I know it's an alien concept for most dog owners.

 

Take a look at Cheviot Jamie to further demonstrate the variation in looks within our breed.

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Don't you think some people would cause a fuss if this dog met all the ROM requirements and the handler wanted the dog to be added to the BC registry... ;)

I suppose some people might. But then again, if the dog can do the work, I don't see why not. For practical purposes, it's unlikely you'd find a German shepherd who could work to a USBCHA open standard, but if one such exists, I wouldn't object to it being ROMed. Whether folks would choose to breed to him would be another matter. ;)

 

ETA: Mark makes a good point too.

 

J.

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I would be very surprised if a German Shepherd Dog would be able to get around a sheepdog trial course in good time, as the breed is mostly used as a tender, but heck -

 

If that dog could do it, get ROMed, and his hips and eyes, etc. were good, then I'd say welcome aboard!

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Don't you think some people would cause a fuss if this dog met all the ROM requirements and the handler wanted the dog to be added to the BC registry... ;)

 

 

That's a beautiful GSD, and a nice picture, as well. Resembles my daughter's of Ukrainian heritage.

 

Want to believe that the question is more than an "unlikely" hypo, and that application would be made for the dog. Genuinely wish you the best. -- TEC

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That's a beautiful GSD, and a nice picture, as well. Resembles my daughter's of Ukrainian heritage.

 

Want to believe that the question is more than an "unlikely" hypo, and that application would be made for the dog. Genuinely wish you the best. -- TEC

 

 

Points all taken, and I don't want you to think I'm pro confirmation breeding, because I'm not. Its been kind of fun to play devils advocate on this topic. Also, it might be worth sending people to this thread next time anyone posts, "the dog in your picture isn't a border collie because blah blah blah".

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