When "STAY" Means Anything BUT...

[Jennifer and Koal]

Just a quick question, if I may...

 

Koal is a good puppy for the most part, mind you a decent attention span is to be desired at the moment (I'm sure though that it'll come with age and training). She has a few commands that she completes with NO problems (she knows; sit, leave it, no, shake paw, and sit pretty). She has others though that need some work and I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on how to help me help her respond to her commands quickly and correctly.

 

She knows "come" (when she wants to, or when she's finished sniffing something she's found), but she doesn't know "stay", or "down".

 

I got her from a really nice lady who had an insanely jealous 6 year old German Shepherd, who didn't like Koal, which is why they had to give her up. I've had her for about a month know. They said she knows all of those commands, but I can't get her to do them all.

 

I'm not worried about "down" at the moment, although it would be nice, but I am wondering how to get her to "come" when I ask, and "stay".

 

I read some of the posts last night and have since gotten her to stop pulling on the leash and (when she wasn't looking) would hide on her to teach her not to let me out of her site (She learned all this on a 20 minute walk).

 

Anyhow, I'm getting off topic, if someone out there feels like helping me out with some suggestions, it would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

Thanks so much for your time!!

 

Take care!! xoxox

[Dynamite Tess Again]

Okay Jennifer

I come from the Raise with praise school of thinking, which means just that. Praise when right, ignore when wrong. To get my pup into a down, I started off by putting her into a sit then held a treat to her nose. As she went to take the treat I simply lowered it to the floor saying 'Down' as she went down. When doing a stay try and avoid eye contact. We start off by putting our dogs in a sit or a down, then taking literally only one step away, counting to three then going back and praising. If the dog moves, we simply repeat the exercise without moaning or complaining to the dog. [i look at it this way. If someone who didn't speak my language was trying to explain something to me I would want them to show a little patience. If they wanted me to sit and stay at a table for instance, I would hope that I would be eased back into the chair gently if I got up, not shouted at or pushed around.] Going back to the stay. You gradually increase the distance away from your dog and the time spent away. As your confidence grows, walk a circle round your dog. Whilst standing away from her, jump up and down. Another thing which might be helpful, when you praise your dog for staying, stop immediately if she moves, otherwise you've ended up praising the movement. Some people have a word like 'okay' for releasing a dog from an exercise, but again, once the release word is spoken all praise must stop. I hope this all makes sense. It's getting very near my bedtime and I'm tired.

Best Wishes, Val and her girls.

[BARTASBORDERS]

I agree with Val,,,Praise and Patience.Start out slow.make her sit,step in front of her for just 30 sec.,then say "all done" and praise or treat.Each day increase time a little.If the pup moves just put her back and remind her to stay.No reprimands or scolding just correction.I can't remember if you said how old the pup is because their attention span is short,but always work with short training times and increase.Obedience schools are great just for socialization and teaching too.

 

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Sue Barta

Bartas Border Collies

Rogers,Mn.

[DEERWOODS]

These are some great suggestions. The wonderful thing about BC's is their ability to learn. I am not sure how old you pup is but like the others said be patient. My BC had to learn how to learn. One thing that helped was giving him a command that meant he was right. Try and give her a comand like "yes" for when she is right. And ignore her when she was wrong. When she is right give her a the comand then a reward like food or a toy. Once she "learns how to learn" you will be able to teach her anything. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Judy and the crew

[Jennifer and Koal]

Just wanted to give you a quick responce, and thank you so much for all your responces so far! I'm going to be SURE to try them all!

 

Koal is 4 months old. The lady I got her from had her as a family pet, but because of the German Shepheard (he was INSANELY jealous, because he'd been there for 6 years already), she had to give her up. She had her from the time she was 7 weeks, until she was 12 weeks. I've had her since then, and she's now 14 weeks.

 

Just wanted to add that! But again, thank you so much for your replies, and for being SO quick!

 

Take care, and I hope to talk to you soon! I'll keep you posted!

[Tomi Jo]

Hi Jennifer,

All this is great advice and also the way I train. Praise, praise, praise One thing I did want to mention though was when you have the dog in a sit and take the treat down to the floor, push it back into the dogs chest and down. This will keep the dog from stretching it's neck or creeping forward which will happen if you hold the treat too far away. One more thing, when you tell the dog "down" only say it once and then guide the dog into it, then praise with good down. If you keep repeating the command the dog will get the idea that it don't have to do it the first time you say it but maybe the third or fourth time. I won't repeat the advice on the stays but will say I totally agree with it. As far as the "come" command, don't ever call her and scold her or do anything else with her that she don't like, this is telling her that comeing to you when called is bad. If I have a pup that doesn't respond well to comeing when called I would put them on a long line and call them, if they didn't come I'd just give a little tug to get thier attention and slowly reel them in, not dragging them, but helping if they stop. Keep talking to them and praising them for comeing and always have a treat ready. You can also try running backwards while calling her to get her to come in quicker. But be careful with this, I can't tell you how many times I've landed on my butt! LOL

Keep it fun and good luck!

Tomi Jo, Albion, IN

[Dynamite Tess Again]

Hi Tomi Jo

Yes, I'm afraid I forgot to mention the running back thing, and of course this can be incorporated in game play with your puppy. But, as you implied, just be careful of your footing and make sure all is clear behind you. Another thing springs to mind about the staying. Jennifer, there is no law which says you have to use the word 'stay'. I know of several handlers who only use the word sit for a sit stay. If the dog is sitting it's not going to go anywhere anyway. If you want your dog to remain in a sit, then just keep using the word sit. Just thought it might be something else to try.

Best wishes Val and her girls.

 

[This message has been edited by Dynamite Tess Again (edited 03-09-2000).]

[Jennifer and Koal]

Thanks Tess and Tomi Jo for your suggestions!

 

Actually, Tess, I am noticing that when we go for walks, and I come to a street to cross, she will sit, and stay sitting until I release her. I don't have to say "Stay", so I think maybe your suggestion about not necessarily training her to "stay" but to Sit Stay" would work better with what she already is picking up.

 

Oh... and as far as the running backwards thing... I've watched my mom do that and she's either landed on her butt, or had our puppies come charging SO fast at her that they literally, plow her over! Thank goodness I inherited lots of "padding" back there from my parents! LOL *joking* Maybe I should strap a pillow to my butt before I take her out and try her on that!

 

Thanks again SO much!

[Tomi Jo]

Hi Jennifer,

Your story about your mom falling on her butt and getting run over reminds me of what happened to me a few years back. I was working with my Great Dane (yes, I know this is a BC board )and her recalls were slow so we did what we call a restrained recall where someone physically holds the dog back while you call it and get it all excited and when the dog is all hyped up the person lets the dog go! Most dogs will come barreling straight at you, mine did this! The problem was that I'm a little person, 5 feet tall and my dog outweighed me by 40 pounds! So, here I am, standing in the ring with this huge dog barreling at me! Needless to say I ended up flat on my back with this dog jumping around stepping on me licking me and just as happy as could be! LOL It was the fastest recall I've ever seen her do!

 

Tomi Jo, Albion,IN

[susanmann]

There are some great suggstions here! For some additional advice on training using positive methods, check out clickersolutions.com, whether you want to use the word Yes, or a clicker doesn't really matter.

For Down, I discovered that capturing the behavior worked really well for me. When Brodie did a down on his own, I clicked him to let him know this was a good thing and makes other good things happen (treats, play) and got a fast down before putting the word Down into it (and I also use a signal of arm raised- dogs learn signals even faster than words). Now he knows Down as a fast drop, wherever he is, and stays in that position while arm is raised, or if I give a stay command/signal. We never went through Down as a slow, I'll get there eventually mom, command because by the time he knew what the word meant, he already was enthusiastic about dropping quickly. This is operant learning theory, and it really works!

 

With stay, whether or not you use a command or not, why not treat dinnertime as a time to train and reinforce the behaviour you want? Make the dog stay while waiting for dinner, and he gets a powerful reinforcement in the form of dinner. Caution- this does require patience and consitency on your part!

 

Lots of luck!