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Surely YOU have $5000 to spare, right?

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http://www.brilliantrecalls.com/fe/20739-running-contacts

 

 

Apparently the video invite only went out to an elite group of people -- but don't worry, it's quickly spreading like wildfire around the internet so that everyone can know exactly how far Susan Garrett has gone off the deep end.

 

It actually makes me sad. I mean, I have always loved Susan Garrett and her training methods. I'm a big fan of crate games, 2x2, Ruff Love and Shaping Success. Many of my training methods have been shaped from what I have learned from watching SG. But this is just plain old over the top.

 

She's only taking on five students at $5000 each. :blink: You have to submit an application to be accepted as part of this elite group -- So hey, even if you happen to have $5000 to blow, you'd better be pretty darn special for her to take you over the hundreds of other people who will be waving their money in the air. :lol:

 

What a complete turnoff.

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Well, I can tell you for a fact, that Susan Garrett DOES NOT give out all her secrets and training that she does on her dogs, even on these webinars, etc - she always holds something back.

 

I did a seminar with a very good friend of mine that does the 2 x 2 method of weave pole training, she has trained with Susan Garrett alot over the last few years (still can't figure that out) and so her training steps, etc are taken directly from Susan Garrett and it is nothing like what is on Susan's 2 x 2 DVD. The progression is way different - more complex and many more steps.

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Completely ridiculous. :blink:

 

And more ammunition for everyone who already thinks agility people are a bunch of flakes.

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That is definitely way too much money.

 

I like some of Susan's approaches, others I am not a fan of.

 

But no "training secret" is worth that!

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Nope. That's just crazy, but then she only needs one person to sign up for it to really turn a killer profit. Have to wonder what her usual rates are...

 

ETA: Have to admit that it's a bold, possibly brilliant marketing strategy, having refused to teach it until the method was "perfected" and then only to a maximum of 5 in an intense 3 weeks. Wonder how it'll turn out.

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Sadly, it looks like Susan hasn't cornered the market on insane ideas or insane prices.

 

Just in case spending $5000 with SG wasn't enough for you, there is also the option spending $5300 to train with Karen Pryor!

 

https://www.karenpryoracademy.com/dog-trainer-program

 

I suppose that's a steal, though, because that program is six months instead of three weeks and you get "certified."

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I know of several people that have taken the Karen Pryor courses and they work their butts off, and it is a very intense course. My one friend had to travel her home town to Calgary (7 hour drive) several times during that time to be able to complete the course. I would love to take it if dog training was my job and my income source.

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While I do kind of admire the brilliant marketing strategy (hey, it's an elite group, once in a life time chance yada, yada :rolleyes: ) It's mind boggling that a person would charge that much (and that suckers people would pay that much) for so little. You can't learn dog training from an online course even though you can learn theory that way. You learn real training skill through hands on practice and lots of it.

 

For that type of money I'd want to stay there for 4-6 weeks, have instructor led sessions and have a chance to work on the skills with multiple dogs in that time period.

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There's buried strategy here, as well. Say she gets 5 people to pay her $5000 for this class. In the near future, she can then advertise that she's selling a training 'valued' at $5000 for a mere $2500, or whatever. She gets her first five students to write glowing testimonials and includes those in her marketing materials.

 

Then, in a few more months, she comes out with another program for another agility basic. And starts all over again. She might be planning to train trainers in her techniques. She might be planning to franchise. Having a product she can say is 'valued' at $5000 but is available now for fill-in-the-blank is a time-honored and very successful marketing technique. I have no way of knowing if this what she's doing, but if she's working with a marketing director with any experience, there's a good chance it's just part of an overall plan.

 

It will be interesting to see how well this flies or doesn't.

 

Ruth

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Words fail me! Actually, they don't, but I try to control the uber-cynical side of me by keeping silent.

 

As Rushdoggie says: "wow -- just wow"

 

SecretBC - what have been the responses of the online agility people? I am curious.

 

Jovi

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My theory is that she will end up making a DVD using the video footage from these folks.

 

I have no doubt she will get 5 takers.

 

It would be really interesting to see what kind of results they have, and how they fare long term.

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Words fail me! Actually, they don't, but I try to control the uber-cynical side of me by keeping silent.

 

As Rushdoggie says: "wow -- just wow"

 

SecretBC - what have been the responses of the online agility people? I am curious.

 

Jovi

 

Everyone I know thinks she lost her marbles. I and many others have been tiring of the endless amount of marketing and advertising Susan started to do over the last year. First Puppy Peaks (an exclusive club that gets to watch videos of how she is training Swagger), then Recallers and the "Inner Circle," now this. It's ridiculous.

 

And from what I've heard, if you don't fork over the $$ to be in the inner circle you are ignored and treated like a second rate citizen. She just keeps telling you what you are missing by not being a member instead of giving you information to make your "lowly" $400 subscription worth the price. Most people end up upgrading ($1000+) to get any value at all. Insanity.....

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I've been tired of her since I first met her while auditing a seminar she taught in NC about 15 years ago. And just in case I had any doubt so many years later, I had the misfortune of sitting in front of her at Nationals and listening to her badmouth other competitors and go on and on about she (SG) was so much better and had much more influence because she was famous and all. GAG.

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Hate to go all "free-markety" on the forum :) but...

 

If this woman can get 5 people to pay $5,000 to take this course or seminar, then that's exactly what the thing is worth.

 

In fact, if she asked 20 people for $20K each, and got takers, it'd be worth that much.

 

If, on the other hand, no one in the agility field forks up the $5K, then it shows that the seminar is not worth it.

 

If there's a demand, people will supply. Me, I'd never pay $200 for Uggs, or buy $300 jeans when Kohls sells jeans for $24.00 on sale, regularly. (Heck, I've been known to go for $3 jeans at Salvation Army.) Coach bags? Are you kidding me? But others of my gender keep someone rich buying this garbage.

 

Seems to me that if a guy who hits a baseball can make $10 million in a season and no one blinks - and if a "reality TV" diva can make millions to show the world she's a bimbo - then someone with a marketable skill like dog training ought to have her shot, too. Great painters make tens of thousands for a single painting, and political speakers make tens of thousands per appearance.

 

Mary

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Sadly, it looks like Susan hasn't cornered the market on insane ideas or insane prices.

 

Just in case spending $5000 with SG wasn't enough for you, there is also the option spending $5300 to train with Karen Pryor!

 

https://www.karenpry...trainer-program

 

I suppose that's a steal, though, because that program is six months instead of three weeks and you get "certified."

 

Why is this proof of the trainer's insanity?

 

It's just letting the market set the price. If someone thinks the information is worth $5000, and they have $5000 to spend on it, they'll pay. If, like you, they think it's excessive and silly, they won't.

 

As for certifications, some are worth something, some are worth the page they are printed on and not much more. It's experience and achievement that speaks loudly. Paper means you went to class and you passed the exam.

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Hate to go all "free-markety" on the forum :) but...

 

If this woman can get 5 people to pay $5,000 to take this course or seminar, then that's exactly what the thing is worth.

 

In fact, if she asked 20 people for $20K each, and got takers, it'd be worth that much.

 

If, on the other hand, no one in the agility field forks up the $5K, then it shows that the seminar is not worth it.

 

If there's a demand, people will supply. Me, I'd never pay $200 for Uggs, or buy $300 jeans when Kohls sells jeans for $24.00 on sale, regularly. (Heck, I've been known to go for $3 jeans at Salvation Army.) Coach bags? Are you kidding me? But others of my gender keep someone rich buying this garbage.

 

Seems to me that if a guy who hits a baseball can make $10 million in a season and no one blinks - and if a "reality TV" diva can make millions to show the world she's a bimbo - then someone with a marketable skill like dog training ought to have her shot, too. Great painters make tens of thousands for a single painting, and political speakers make tens of thousands per appearance.

 

Mary

 

I do agree with you in principle. If they've got the money and think it's worth it, then to each his own.

 

But I'm shaking my head at the idea that someone would pay that much money for one aspect of training that seems to be little more than a couple of weekend seminars and a short online training course.

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I think the KP program is kind of a different animal...more of an specialized certification including education on running a dog training business. I would pay that much to get a specialty certification in my field as well.

 

But to pay $5K to have her help you teach your dog a running contact? That's kind of nuts.

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I and many others have been tiring of the endless amount of marketing and advertising Susan started to do over the last year. First Puppy Peaks (an exclusive club that gets to watch videos of how she is training Swagger), then Recallers and the "Inner Circle," now this. It's ridiculous.

 

I used to enjoy reading her blog but do not bother now as I fully agree with SecretBC, if I was going to sign up for an online course I would go with Sylvia Trkmans running contacts for $240.00, I briefly listened to the video and does seem like the price includes live training with her in Canada.

 

From everything I have read about running contacts it is not rocket science, it is consistency, accurate marking and a lot of repetitions of the behavior that gets you the result.

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As for certifications, some are worth something, some are worth the page they are printed on and not much more. It's experience and achievement that speaks loudly. Paper means you went to class and you passed the exam.

 

Regardless, there are people who seek out Karen Pryor Academy graduates to work with, and many recommend them to people who are new to training and looking to get off on the right foot.

 

A Karen Pryor Academy graduate with some decent business sense can certainly profit from having the brand name associated with his or her business.

 

That makes it worth something of substance.

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A true running contact is a contact that is not managed in the least. The dog goes up/over/across the contact at full speed and accelerates down the off ramp, running through the yellow contact zone.

 

There are millions of videos on YouTube of running contacts in trial situations as well as training. Daisy Peel actually has a playlist of training the running dog walk from start to finish -- although Susan Garrett is claiming that her method is much faster and doesn't require the number of repetitions. :rolleyes:

 

There is more to it than just training the dog to run as fast as it can in a straight line without leaping off the ramp, though --- Judges have decided it's fun to put really tight turns off the contacts now, so folks with running contacts also have to teach turns, which causes many people to rip their hair out. ;)

 

While not nearly as exhilarating, I find the process of teaching a stopped contact to be easier -- but then again, I don't think my dogs are in danger of ever having a world title on the line. Those who compete at the top levels almost require a running contact to have any chance of winning these days.

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Could anyone explain to me what a running contact is...?

 

If you know this, I beg pardon, but the first thing to know is that on the A-Frame, Dog Walk, and Teeter, there is a rule that the dog must get at least one paw into the yellow zone at the bottom of the down side of the equipment.

 

The purpose of this is to avoid having dogs flying off too high up.

 

Traditionally, this has been trained by teaching a "contact behavior" where the dog goes to the bottom and stops, usually with front paws on the ground and back paws on the equipment. This is called "2 on 2 off". That isn't the only way to do it. Some teach a four on, some do "one rear toe on", and some teach a stop on the ground at the bottom.

 

It has become popular in recent years to not have the dog stop at all, but run right through the contact zone. That's a "running contact".

 

But one must still teach most dogs to run into the yellow zone because many dogs, as they get excited, will fly off above the yellow. So, there are different ways to teach the dog to get at least a paw into the yellow, while running through the contact zone.

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What's most interesting about this, to me, is that as recently as a year or so ago, she vehemently and loudly poo-poohed running contacts as being "not 100% reliable" and that 99% was not the same as 100% or something like that, so therefore running contacts would never be a real training methodology. Someone proceeded to then totally diss her by pointing out that her young dog missed her weave entry not once but twice at Worlds, thereby making her famous 2X2 method of weave poles "not a reliable training method" which made me laugh and laugh and laugh some more.

 

In addition to some of her other unfriendly public behaviours, as the 2010 Nationals she came in 2nd in the 26" division and remarked rather loudly that she would have been 1st, but was "too busy training other people to run well to train her own dogs." Never mind that she has her own fully equipped training facility in her own backyard. A friend who happened to come in 3rd mused that he trains once a week after working a 50 hour work week, and still managed to place on the podium.

 

I am all for competition and the competitive spirit. Not a big fan of blowhards.

 

$5000 is ridiculous, but so is paying it ;-)

 

RDM

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