Jim Kling Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 My 4 year old BC became slightly lame in early December and was diagnosed with a shoulder subluxation. The vet said it is usually caused by severe trauma, but we're not aware of anything that would have been directly related. He did "wipe out" while chasing a squirrel a few weeks before that, and came back on 3 legs, but he seemed normal within a few minutes. The only other incident was a collision with a picnic table at the dog park, but he never limped then and it was way back in July. But regardless of the cause, we've struggled with the problem. It's happened 3 times now. Each time the vet pops it back in place and sends him home with previcox (anti-inflammatory). It gets better very quickly but then goes out again within a couple of days of him going off the medication. The problem is that we have an 11 month old puppy who wants to play with him and they tend to rough house, which we think is causing the displacement. We're keeping them separate to give it a better chance to heal, but we're worried about whether this will keep recurring. Does anyone have experience with shoulder subluxation? How was it treated? Does anyone have experience with subluxations that couldn't be controlled? We're also trying to figure out how to manage puppy interactions in the future. We can't keep them separated forever. We'll try to train them not to wrestle with one another, but I don't know how well that will work. Suggestions welcomed! Keeping them permanently separate is not an option because we are a small household. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have had a dog with shoulder problems (although he did not have a subluxated shoulder) so it is a special interest of mine. I can not offer specific experiences, but just in general, the recovery/rehabilitation period is often longer than one wants to rest their high-energy dog. Think 2 or 3 or 4 months depending on the diagnosis. If the injury is not rested/rehabbed enough, it will injure much more quickly and easily. Any of the incidents you describe could potentially (or not) have caused injury. Some dogs also have a genetic predisposition to shoulder problems. An internet search on the terms 'shoulder subluxation' and 'canine' yields a lot of information. BTW, is it a subluxation vs. a dislocation? since you mentioned that the shoulder was 'popped back into place'? If you have access to a rehab/orthopedic canine specialist, I encourage you to take your dog for an evaluation. They should also be able to advise you with regard to the need for crate rest, leash walking, and, maybe, shoulder-specific exercises that might help prevent repeated episodes in the future. Good Luck with the puppy interaction. I sympathize with your situation. It will take quite a bit of extra energy and creative thinking to keep both dogs exercised and mentally stimulated if the older dog has to have a period of crate rest-leash walking, etc. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kling Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I have had a dog with shoulder problems (although he did not have a subluxated shoulder) so it is a special interest of mine. I can not offer specific experiences, but just in general, the recovery/rehabilitation period is often longer than one wants to rest their high-energy dog. Think 2 or 3 or 4 months depending on the diagnosis. If the injury is not rested/rehabbed enough, it will injure much more quickly and easily. Any of the incidents you describe could potentially (or not) have caused injury. Some dogs also have a genetic predisposition to shoulder problems. An internet search on the terms 'shoulder subluxation' and 'canine' yields a lot of information. BTW, is it a subluxation vs. a dislocation? since you mentioned that the shoulder was 'popped back into place'? If you have access to a rehab/orthopedic canine specialist, I encourage you to take your dog for an evaluation. They should also be able to advise you with regard to the need for crate rest, leash walking, and, maybe, shoulder-specific exercises that might help prevent repeated episodes in the future. Good Luck with the puppy interaction. I sympathize with your situation. It will take quite a bit of extra energy and creative thinking to keep both dogs exercised and mentally stimulated if the older dog has to have a period of crate rest-leash walking, etc. Jovi Thanks, Jovi. Apparently subluxation is a partial dislocation -- enough to be noticeable when put back in place, but not completely out of joint. It doesn't appear to cause him any pain when it's put back, at least. Unfortunately I don't know how possible crate rest is going to be. He's not crate trained so he's pretty stressed out about being in it. On the other hand, I work at home so I can keep him with me in the office where I work and separated from the puppy, so I'm hoping that that will work almost as well. I am introducing him to the crate and perhaps in a few days he'll get more comfortable with it. My vet is going to send his x-rays to some specialists to get more opinions on it, but I think you're right that a trip to one is in order for us. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 You might already know this, but disocations/subluxations always take a long time to heal. The soft connective tissue, (tendons, ligaments) that holds bones and joints together is very easily re-injured, as Jovi mentioned. And,each re-injury increases the likelihood of more injury. I second the motion to get to a specialist - ortho or re-hab. A good re-hab vet can give you very specific dos and don'ts. There have been some threads on tips to keep very active dogs happy while they are on enforced rest - a search should turn those up for you. Is a doggy pal available that your young whippersnapper could play with maybe a couple times a week? Might be good for the mental health of everyone, if you can work it out. Good luck! Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 My vet is going to send his x-rays to some specialists to get more opinions on it, but I think you're right that a trip to one is in order for us. Jim Good. glad to hear that the next step is going to involve a specialist. X-rays are an excellent starting point as they may indicate if the shoulder is genetically predisposed to subluxation. But since the subluxation involves stretched tendons & ligaments, which do not show up on X-ray (I don't think), a hands-on evaluation by a specialist will be invaluable. It seemed to me that the rehab vets I used got more information from watching the dog's gait and manipulating his joint(s) than from X-rays. Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCjetta Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I went to a specialist about my dog's dislocating toe. He figured the same - initial injury caused the weakness and then she kept re-injuring it. He told me 6 months no running/jumping etc to give it time to heal. Leash walks only. It has not been a problem since then other than arthritis which is in many of her toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I use an x-pen for "crate rest" because I don't like the dog being unable to move much at all. Perhaps Rodeo will take to an x-pen better? You should set it up in your office while you're in there then move it or put up another where ever you are- say the living room in the evenings, etc.. Sometimes resistance to the crate is really resistance to separation from the owner more than resistance to confinement. With an x-pen (get a 4 foot one or get a top that you can use if needed) you can gradually introduce the idea of confinement while you are there & then slowly work to leaving the room for a few minutes to eventually leaving the house. Give him a nice meaty bone to chew on while there, feed him from interactive toys(if he is fed kibble). The shoulder joint is very shallow. Like a rotator-cuff injury in people there are lots of ligaments & tendons doing the work of holding the "ball" of the humerus in the "socket" of the scapula. By definition a subluxation has torn or at least stretched those ligaments & tendons. Continuing activity/reinjury can cause them to heal "lose" & leads to chronic problems. I would strongly encourage a visit to a board certified orthopedist. I would also consult a rehab specialist...Prolotherapy may work for this type of injury. If you have a really hard time controlling Rodeo's activity then you may need to put him in a Velpeau sling along with restricted activity. Injuries are a real reason why all dogs should be crate trained, IMO. I cannot describe how stressful it is on dogs who are not crate trained when they have to got to the vet. In some cases (at the ER) I believe it meant the difference between recovering from severe illness & not making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 My red puppy, Loki subluxated his shoulder when he had a fall in October. And yes, the shoulder repeatedly resubluxated. Loki was being treated chiropractically and via acupuncture. Finally I took him to a veterinarian certified in canine rehabilitation. Loki had another 4 wks of rest and started laser treatments three times a week. The exam had showed pain on palpation in the area of his infraspinatus and teres minor, basically where a bunch of tendons connected muscles to the humerus where the humerus and scapula meet. A very weird injury that was causing Loki to tighten his muscles and walk oddly trying to avoid pain which caused resubluxation of the shoulder and more pain. They had also tested Loki for medial shoulder instability (basically a rotator cuff tear) but thank goodness he was ok. There are treatments available but finding the right treatment for your dog may involve a trip to a rehab specialisst or orthopedic specialist. I spent a lot of money at vet clinics that thought they knew what they were doing, but the shoulder is just too complex for anyone but a specialist to truly figure out. At one point he had laser for 3 wks on the wrong spot! What a waste of my limited funds? Finding a specialist is key! Now, with chiropractic adjustments, kennel rest, and laser treatments Loki is now starting physical therapy. I can't describe how happy I was Thursday when the rehab vet assigned Loki stretches, strengthening exercises, and had an introduction to the underwater treadmill. He's even beginning to be weaned off pain meds. Of course, Loki is still on strict rest. After months of pain I'm now having to try keep the little man quiet. He wants to play bow and bounce. What a change after months of pain and drugs. . . I hope that you can find the help I finally managed to get. Crossing fingers for your pup and mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kling Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 You might already know this, but disocations/subluxations always take a long time to heal. The soft connective tissue, (tendons, ligaments) that holds bones and joints together is very easily re-injured, as Jovi mentioned. And,each re-injury increases the likelihood of more injury. I second the motion to get to a specialist - ortho or re-hab. A good re-hab vet can give you very specific dos and don'ts. There have been some threads on tips to keep very active dogs happy while they are on enforced rest - a search should turn those up for you. Is a doggy pal available that your young whippersnapper could play with maybe a couple times a week? Might be good for the mental health of everyone, if you can work it out. Good luck! Ruth Thanks, Ruth! He's been in a crate some but since he isn't crate trained it's tough for him. He's pretty quiet though so I've had pretty good luck just keeping him separated from the puppy. But can you point me to some threads about keeping dogs occupied during crate rest? I looked around a bit but didn't find very much. Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kling Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I went to a specialist about my dog's dislocating toe. He figured the same - initial injury caused the weakness and then she kept re-injuring it. He told me 6 months no running/jumping etc to give it time to heal. Leash walks only. It has not been a problem since then other than arthritis which is in many of her toes. I'm glad to hear he's recovered! Six months must have been a real challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kling Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 I use an x-pen for "crate rest" because I don't like the dog being unable to move much at all. Perhaps Rodeo will take to an x-pen better? You should set it up in your office while you're in there then move it or put up another where ever you are- say the living room in the evenings, etc.. Sometimes resistance to the crate is really resistance to separation from the owner more than resistance to confinement. With an x-pen (get a 4 foot one or get a top that you can use if needed) you can gradually introduce the idea of confinement while you are there & then slowly work to leaving the room for a few minutes to eventually leaving the house. Give him a nice meaty bone to chew on while there, feed him from interactive toys(if he is fed kibble). The shoulder joint is very shallow. Like a rotator-cuff injury in people there are lots of ligaments & tendons doing the work of holding the "ball" of the humerus in the "socket" of the scapula. By definition a subluxation has torn or at least stretched those ligaments & tendons. Continuing activity/reinjury can cause them to heal "lose" & leads to chronic problems. I would strongly encourage a visit to a board certified orthopedist. I would also consult a rehab specialist...Prolotherapy may work for this type of injury. If you have a really hard time controlling Rodeo's activity then you may need to put him in a Velpeau sling along with restricted activity. Injuries are a real reason why all dogs should be crate trained, IMO. I cannot describe how stressful it is on dogs who are not crate trained when they have to got to the vet. In some cases (at the ER) I believe it meant the difference between recovering from severe illness & not making it. Thanks, Cindy. Rodeo is slowly getting crate trained now. He's a very mellow dog so I don't think it's going to be too much trouble. We're not going to progress to full crate rest unless we absolutely have to, but I want him to get used to it if needed. We'll be seeing a specialist in the next week or so. In the meantime we're restricting his activity and learning to adjust to the new routine. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kling Posted January 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 My red puppy, Loki subluxated his shoulder when he had a fall in October. And yes, the shoulder repeatedly resubluxated. Loki was being treated chiropractically and via acupuncture. Finally I took him to a veterinarian certified in canine rehabilitation. Loki had another 4 wks of rest and started laser treatments three times a week. The exam had showed pain on palpation in the area of his infraspinatus and teres minor, basically where a bunch of tendons connected muscles to the humerus where the humerus and scapula meet. A very weird injury that was causing Loki to tighten his muscles and walk oddly trying to avoid pain which caused resubluxation of the shoulder and more pain. They had also tested Loki for medial shoulder instability (basically a rotator cuff tear) but thank goodness he was ok. There are treatments available but finding the right treatment for your dog may involve a trip to a rehab specialisst or orthopedic specialist. I spent a lot of money at vet clinics that thought they knew what they were doing, but the shoulder is just too complex for anyone but a specialist to truly figure out. At one point he had laser for 3 wks on the wrong spot! What a waste of my limited funds? Finding a specialist is key! Now, with chiropractic adjustments, kennel rest, and laser treatments Loki is now starting physical therapy. I can't describe how happy I was Thursday when the rehab vet assigned Loki stretches, strengthening exercises, and had an introduction to the underwater treadmill. He's even beginning to be weaned off pain meds. Of course, Loki is still on strict rest. After months of pain I'm now having to try keep the little man quiet. He wants to play bow and bounce. What a change after months of pain and drugs. . . I hope that you can find the help I finally managed to get. Crossing fingers for your pup and mine. I'm sorry to hear about Loki -- I hope is recovery continues apace! Weirdly Rodeo has essentially no pain. When its subluxed he favors it a little bit, but only after getting off the couch. The rest of the time he walked normally to my eye and showed no sign of discomfort. But of course it's likely to get much worse in time if we don't get it healed up. My vet mentioned the possibility of laser therapy (the specialist we'll be seeing does it). If you don't mind my asking, what did it cost? Is there a good web site that talks about it, rates of success, etc? Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 Thanks, Ruth! He's been in a crate some but since he isn't crate trained it's tough for him. He's pretty quiet though so I've had pretty good luck just keeping him separated from the puppy. But can you point me to some threads about keeping dogs occupied during crate rest? I looked around a bit but didn't find very much. Thanks, Jim Dang, I couldn't find any either. I'll check again if I can think of another way to phrase it, then check w/Eileen if I still can't find one. Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted January 29, 2012 Report Share Posted January 29, 2012 There's some good information on laser therapy at http://www.vomtech.com/vetcoldlaser.html Most vets sell laser therapy in packages of 6 sessions for about $250 total. If you buy the sessions individually it costs more. So, make sure to ask about the price difference in individual vs. packages. Hopefully in six months both of your dogs are back to normal activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Dogs Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Just have to give ya'll an update. Loki was injured in Oct. and last night was released to start going on short walks with me! He's been doing underwater treadmill and exercises. Now for the "real" thing- a five minute walk twice daily. Cross your fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Just have to give ya'll an update. Loki was injured in Oct. and last night was released to start going on short walks with me! He's been doing underwater treadmill and exercises. Now for the "real" thing- a five minute walk twice daily. Cross your fingers. Good news! I know you are going to continue to be careful so Loki returns to normal activity. In my case, it was so wonderful to finally hear the phrase "He has no restrictions any more". Jovi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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