Border Collie Nationals

[Kelliwic Border Collies]

Any numbers at all would be more informative than what we've got now.

[geonni banner]

Any numbers at all would be more informative than what we've got now.

I scrounged around online on the e-edition of the AKC Gazette. They used to publish monthly statistics for dogs registered and litters registered

The most recent numbers I could find were in the 2010 January issue. After that they seemed to dry up. The number for dogs registered was 162 - litters 45.

These are monthly figures.

 

The annual popular breed figures (which, I believe, are based on registration numbers) placed the Border Collie 47th for 2010, 52nd for 2009, 55th for 2005, and 64th for 2000.

 

Way back when (late '80s) I used to receive the Gazette, and they always published monthly registration stats right after the breed columns. There was also, (and still is) an annual statistics report published separately and sent to subscribers of the Gazette. But there was no mention of annual dog or litter registration numbers in it that I could find in the 2010 issue.

[geonni banner]

http://breedingbetterdogs.com/pdfFiles/articles/ticket_to_ride.pdf

 

Here's an interesting set of statistics in re: the AKC's registration numbers.

[Eileen Stein]

Thanks for posting this, geonni. I had bookmarked it when it first appeared in 2008, but it disappeared from that site a year or so after and I hadn't found it anywhere else.

 

It paints a dire picture, indeed, but a pretty slanted one. I've always thought it was part of a campaign intended to soften up the delegates so they would bow to the need for aggressively pursuing the registration of puppy mill dogs. It came after the delegates forced the AKC into a strategic retreat from its "special relationship" with a large pet shop chain (the original Petland fiasco), and was in turn followed by the AKC's PRIME initiative (see Terrierman's account) and the PRIME manual).

 

Yes, overall registrations have been declining, but nothing is mentioned here about AKC's growing and income-producing investments, which at the end of last year totaled more than $82,000,000, and which are likely to offset declines in registrations for a long time to come. In total, the AKC has more than one hundred million dollars in assets, and that figure has grown during every year that I've been paying attention.

 

Yes, nine popular breeds have declined significantly in registrations, but shifts in the popularity of dog breeds are a constant. Some go out of favor, some come into favor. (For example, the two top dogs on that list are Rottweilers, which have gotten a bad rep for dangerousness and have been targets of BSL, and German Shepherds, who more and more people are noticing have been bred into deformity.) During that same period, there were increases in the number of Border Collie registrations nearly every year (albeit gratifyingly small ones), and in other breeds growing in popularity as well. So although AKC registrations are certainly declining, this example is designed to paint a much worse picture than the overall facts.

 

Yes, there were 29 breeds that register fewer than 50 litters a year. What else would be expected when the AKC recognizes obscure, tiny breeds? Meaning no disrespect to the Norwegian Buhund, Boykin Spaniel, Cesky Terrier, Canaan Dog, Ibizan Hound, Entlebucher Mountain Dog, Glen of Imaal Terrier, Dandie Dinmont Terrier, Lowchen, Pyrenean Shepherd, Polish Lowland Sheepdog, Xoloitzcuintli, etc., I don't think the failure of little-known or rare breeds to register more than 50 litters a year is a harbinger of much of anything for the AKC. And as long as I can remember, English Foxhounds have had the fewest breed registrations in AKC, followed closely by American Foxhounds. I'm sure they're well below 50 litters per year -- not because of growing registry competition, but simply because who would register a foxhound with the AKC?

 

Still, I sometimes enjoy looking at this article. The first time the AKC took in a breed over the opposition of its long-time registry and that registry's members (yes, there was actually a vote) was the Australian Shepherd in 1991. The earliest sign of AKC decline that Battaglia cites was in 1992. The AKC voted to recognize the Border Collie over the vociferous opposition of its registries and owners in Dec 1994. Battaglia chronicles a downhill slide ever since. Even though I take the article with a grain of salt and expect no real reduction of AKC's power in my lifetime, in a world rife with injustice it's nice to read a satisfying morality tale, an apparent example of hubris and nemesis.

[SS Cressa]

Yes, overall registrations have been declining, but nothing is mentioned here about AKC's growing and income-producing investments, which at the end of last year totaled more than $82,000,000, and which are likely to offset declines in registrations for a long time to come. In total, the AKC has more than one hundred million dollars in assets, and that figure has grown during every year that I've been paying attention.

 

 

 

Hey where did you find AKC financial statment? or how did you find the Net Assets? or See how the assets are growing?

I was looking for statements but cant find them.

 

ETA: Nevermind found them. Thanks Geonni

[geonni banner]

ANNUAL REPORT

 

Posted on another thread.

[Flamincomet]

I agree with you, but who is to police what working breeders do? Take Redtop kennel for instance. Who is going to tell the 2010 National Finals Winner he can no longer sell Obedience Dogs to the AKC crowd?

 

I was going to stay out of this any further, because I don't have enough energy or really care enough to continue debating with you people. But who are you to say anyone is going to or should tell Patrick that he can't sell HIS dogs and puppies to who ever he wants? People have different opinions and ideas for the best way to preserve the breed, let people do whatever they want, and continue to do what YOU think is right.

[juliepoudrier]

Um, I think GS's question was somewhat rhetorical. She was in fact saying that it's not likely someone is going to tell someone like Patrick what HE should do. You're arguing with someone who essentially agrees with you....

 

J.

[Grizel]

However, if you need a dog to move your dairy herd, or help with fall roundup, or manage your flocks, it's a tougher job. The ABCA is trying to help on the one hand by supporting the activities of the USBCHA, and local trials through the Promotional Fund, but I don't think we've been as effective in supporting farmers and ranchers and reaching out to them. I suspect that many of them who use dogs, know where to get them, but there are many more who probably could use dogs and don't for lack of resources in finding them, finding training (human and dog) and that may be an area we need to focus more attention on.

 

I love this idea. An exclusive focus on trials is never wise, under any circumstances. This would also help ensure that the border collie survives as a useful farm dog, adapting to new agricultural conditions and needs.

[Flamincomet]

Um, I think GS's question was somewhat rhetorical. She was in fact saying that it's not likely someone is going to tell someone like Patrick what HE should do. You're arguing with someone who essentially agrees with you....

 

J.

 

I should have mentioned that the you was the general you. I was not arguing specifically against a person, but the idea.

[C Crocker]

I love this idea. An exclusive focus on trials is never wise, under any circumstances. This would also help ensure that the border collie survives as a useful farm dog, adapting to new agricultural conditions and needs.

 

 

I took Pearse's post to mean "our" communication to the farmers/ranchers on the use of Border Collies as a positive thing for their ranches is a bit lacking. Not that the Border Collie (the one we promote fairly well through the USBCHA trials) is lacking. I do not know any Open trial dog that doesn't do successful, usefull ranch work and I have met several........These dogs work at home and on the weekend.

[Maralynn]

I took Pearse's post to mean "our" communication to the farmers/ranchers on the use of Border Collies as a positive thing for their ranches is a bit lacking. Not that the Border Collie (the one we promote fairly well through the USBCHA trials) is lacking. I do not know any Open trial dog that doesn't do successful, usefull ranch work and I have met several........These dogs work at home and on the weekend.

 

So what can be done to rectify the lack of communication? If a target market is farmers, how can you/do you go about reaching it?

 

Because you really do preserve the breed as you preserve the need for the breed.

[Grizel]

Because you really do preserve the breed as you preserve the need for the breed.

 

That is God's own truth.

 

Plus it could be a real service to some in the agricultural community. For example, I recently read a story about a lady who tried to start her own sheep farm and purchased a bouvier to help her move sheep. Not to knock any breed, but I think the working border collie community could have been of real assistance to her, if she'd been able to access it.

 

Pearse is right. Knowledge is meant to be shared. Outreach is good.

[Eileen Stein]

So what can be done to rectify the lack of communication? If a target market is farmers, how can you/do you go about reaching it?

 

That is a key question. It's a diffuse audience to reach, but it's worth all the effort we can manage to put into it. I think you offered some good suggestions in the other thread you started. I hope we can find a way to implement some of them.

[appyridr]

Do the ranchers/farmers who provides sheep for the National Finals, Bluegrass, Meeker etc. use Border Collies in their day to day operations? I would assume they do. Do they also compete in trials? Probably not. I would like to hear some stories about REAL working dogs and their shepherds.

I have one; http://www.harlowshillswestcoast.com/

Eric Harlow started out as a weekend hobby trialer with a Kelpie that he qualified & ran in Nursery at the 1st finals in Sturgis I think....or maybe the year before. He now tries to make a living as a sheep producer, raising a family, doing whatever to make ends meet and uses Border Collies daily as do his S.American shepherds. He breeds only once in awhile, when he needs to replace his own dogs. He rarely has time to trial anymore. I would say that all would agree that he is preserving the breed.

 

I have another story: a family has a mid-size(600 ewes) flock that supports part of their income. Both husband & wife work off the farm. They truck sheep from farm to farm to graze on small holdings providing farm tax status to those and 'free' grass for sheep. They also hay & raise grain crops for their own use & to sell. They supply the sheep to a long time sheepdog trial. They don't own a Border Collie.

 

Where I live in the Fraser Valley near Vancouver, BC. I drive by numerous little 5 acre hobby farms with sheep(tax status). I don't think any of them have a Border Collie. They use grain buckets most likely.

Neither of the above obviously do anything to preserve the breed.

 

The vast majority of trial folks have sheep. They got them to train their dogs. So they trial and do chores with their dogs. A lot of them breed their 'wonderful could be final winning bitch if only in a better handler's hands'. A lot of them breed her to the flavor of the year National Finals winning dog. No disrespect to Alasdair, Patrick, Scot etc. But I believe a lot of people have no idea of how good their dogs really are or suitable to their bitch or how much is simply exceptional handling. Again, no disrespect to them or their dogs. Those top handlers are my heroes. But within the working Border Collie community, there are a lot of breedings done that also do not preserve or improve the breed.

 

One more story: the breeder of one of my dogs sold a littermate that was her pick to keep to an agility person. The bitch had shown very little interest in sheep and at 16mos. or so was sold. The agility person did phenomenal with her and went back to breeder to dabble in some herding. Then she bought another working BC from a different breeder to do more 'herding' with. She is still making her living teaching agility/dog training but now, a few years later, has 3 more working bred dogs from pretty big hat lines plus another one from more working 'ranch' line & is pretty successful on the trial field. She also is leasing a farm & is teaching 'herding' to beginner handlers, hired someone else to teach agility who is also getting her feet wet in trials. Most of her students come from agility. They see that working/training sheepdogs is far more challenging and interesting than agility. She may breed some day. Is she preserving the breed - probably not as she will want to produce sweet biddable dogs that are easy for beginners to handle/train up. Nor would they likely have the stamina that someone like Eric Harlow would need.

 

So it boils down to; who is preserving and improving this fantastic dog? How do we measure what proves that?

[C Crocker]

I would like to hear some stories about REAL working dogs and their shepherds.

Collie.

 

 

I read your post with some examples of REAL working dogs, ( versus I guess? those trial dogs) with interest. I will give just one example of a few REAL working dogs I know. These two dogs will be at home helping with the lambing rather than leaving home for a tough trial next month. They do ranch work during the week and trial on the weekends, except when needed at home during events such as lambing.

They earn their keep in both venues. Fortunately they were able to leave home for the Sheepdog Natl's this year where they placed 3rd and 13th in the Open Finals. REAL working dogs are all around us , we sometimes don't view them as such as they are also trial dogs. Many folks really do have useful dogs, on and off the field.

[Sue R]

Many folks really do have useful dogs, on and off the field.

If that isn't the truth!

 

I have real working dogs on a small farm - we calve out thirty head of Angus each later winter/early spring. My dogs help bring in and move cattle from field to field. Help put up the occasional animal (usually a calf) that gets where it shouldn't be. Bring in the thirty weanlings twice a day in fall for their supplemental feeding - putting weanlings in the working pens for feeding can be a bit like "herding cats" when they are new to the routine and ignorant. Help separate off the bull if he gets where he shouldn't be at the wrong time of year. Bring in the whole herd, mothers, babies, and bull for vaccinations and help push them into the working pens. Take the cows from the field adjacent to where their recently-weaned calves are confined, and across the road and up the hill. Move the bull when it's time for him go back with his ladies. Ease a calving heifer to the working chute so we can help pull the calf, one of the hardest jobs we've done because she was tired and fearful. Gently work a new mother and her baby to where we needed them, working step by careful step. Day-to-day jobs, some small and easy, some larger and more challenging.

 

And all done by a couple of dogs that aren't trained well enough for the trial field. Think of how much more I could accomplish with that level of training!

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Farming/ranching takes time. Wendell Berry once wrote that (my paraphrase) "The farmer's capital is his labor". It's a farmer's rule: if you ain't there; it don't get done. Nowadays, many farmer/ranchers have jobs off the farm too and if they don't their wife/helpmate likely does.

 

Trialing and training for trials takes time too.

 

For nearly forty years, we lambed in October. The busiest Virginia trial season is October. I'd go ahead and enter trials but never knew until that morning whether me and my dogs would be able to get away - dogs that had been handling stroppy new mamas the day before.

 

When I did get to a trial, I had fun and drove straight home as soon as I came off the field.

 

If they didn't get drilled much, my dogs got the invaluable experience of real farm work.

 

Regrettably I'm no longer a commercial producer. This year I'll get to all the Virginia trials but without daily farmwork, I don't know how I can start a new pup.

 

Donald McCaig

[Tea]

Thats where I am Mr Donald!

 

 

 

 

Anyway- Here is what we have done.

 

Use dogs in commercial farming operations, ourselves.

 

Use dogs- where appropriate and safe at the mobile slaughter unit.

 

Have experienced pros come and do exhibitions at farming events.

 

We have been trying to get a working farm dog class at the Cattlemen's winter school. to be taught by a pro.

 

Put adds in the farm links e-mails lists about the dogs and trials where farmers can go see.

 

Also I use dogs to catch sheep for farmers that have no dogs, for shearing. Then send them to pros where they may be able to pick up a retired dog.

 

 

 

Also I have two friends that work in the slaughter yards that both use dogs, and have done so for years. Something I have learned from, watching these two They have never trialed.. But there are many young farmers coming into this. And using unfenced land, close in, is becoming more common.

[workindogs]

I have found in my many visits to Meeker most Septembers that the crowd is well populated by knowledgeable ranchers looking for genetics that could be useful to them. I can't tell you how many times I've been approached by a rancher to discuss certain qualities of my dogs, other dogs, things that went on in the field or a judges call...right or wrong. The conversations are not trialing oriented but the ranchers interpretation of what dog would be most effective at getting the job done on the ranch, whether certain actions by the dog on the field would succeed or fail on the ranch or whether the judge is or is not selecting for the most effective dog for ranch work.

 

I've found the spectator ranchers to be very observant and extremely knowledgeable. They are quite interested and likely looking to buy dogs or puppies from dogs they might respect.

[Tea]

One more thing.

 

Support local/slow farming.

 

Support wool/meat products made in the USA.

 

 

At this last local trial our project made almost $1000 selling USDA lamb, naturally processed hides, wool clothing and yarn.

 

 

 

Yep this was an exceptional day but it was local folks supporting local products.

[Grizel]

One more thing.

 

Support wool/meat products made in the USA.

 

 

At this last local trial our project made almost $1000 selling USDA lamb, naturally processed hides, wool clothing and yarn.

 

 

 

Go, Tea. Our products are best anyway.

 

I recently met a young man who worked in a sales barn. He said they used dogs extensively. They bred their own dogs on-site, and the young man described them as amazing. They had no contact with anyone from the USBCHA. It seems like this is the kind of possibility Pearse was talking about.

[appyridr]

I read your post with some examples of REAL working dogs, ( versus I guess? those trial dogs)

 

Sorry guess I didn't word my post quite right. I did not intend to imply that trial dogs are not real working dog. About 99% of the ones that I know in the PNW are also doing chores at home regularly. I was just hoping to hear some of the good stories that came out; about the dogs who work but perhaps don't trial. And to point out how, sadly, a lot of people don't seem to have a need for our good working dogs even though they raise sheep. Where I live, there is only one or maybe a couple largish commercial flocks. They may have LGDs but not BCs. Most are small hobby farms who raise just enough lamb to earn their farm tax status. So we are not exposed to examples of good farm dogs, so it is nice to hear about those that use them.

cheers Lani