mmisk Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hi - my 9 yr old was just to the vet for his regular checkup and rabies vac. It was a substitute vet as his regular is on vacation. She did a thorough exam and said she detected a loud heart murmur. She mentioned coughing as a symptom, Marley doesn't really do that, at least not often and usually with toys (sometimes after catching his frisbee.) I have noticed he gets more tired in the hot weather when running around with other dogs. He's never been fond of the hot weather so I've chalked this up to getting older and generally not knowing when enough is enough (which is why I tend to cut his fun short) but in cooler (say under 60) temps he doesn't display this and seemed fine over the winter. Soooo... I've managed to schedule an ultra-sound tomorow with a doggie cardiologist up here in VT. The vet said depending what they find they may prescribe meds. I did read a few threads from 2008 and 2009 and wonder if things have changed at all? New drugs? Better treatments? Drugs to avoid? Appreciate your replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Wait to see what they find during the echo. Take a deep breath and try to not worry too much until you know what you are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Just as a way of explanation, the reason the vet mentioned coughing is because she probably thinks the heart murmur is the result of mitral valve disease (the most common cause for murmurs in older dogs, per my vet). When the valve doesn't close properly, a wooshing sound (the murmur) can be heard as blood leaks back in the wrong direction. Because of the "leakage" the heart has to work harder to push the blood out, and the extra work causes the heart to enlarge (it's a muscle after all). When the heart enlarges to a certain point, it starts to impinge on the dog's trachea, and that's what causes the coughing your vet was talking about. The last time I had my dog X-rayed, her heart had gotten a bit larger from the last view, but still was not quite affecting her trachea. She does cough on occasion, but without radiographic or other evidence that her heart is actually impinging on her trachea, I can't say that's the cause of the coughing, though it's likely. One newer drug, which lowers blood pressure and has been clinically shown to increase lifespan in dogs is Vetmedin (pimobendan). It's a vet-only med, so you won't be able to get it at a regular pharmacy, and it costs around $1/pill (Willow takes two pills a day). Another standard treatment is Enalapril. It's an ACE inhibitor, which acts indirectly to help blood vessels to relax, thereby reducing blood pressure and allowing the heart to work less hard. (Pimobendan works by a different mechanism.) There may be other meds out there, but these are the two my Willow is on, and she's been on for several years now (she just turned 14). So far her activity does not seem to have been affected by her heart problems; the beating she has given her body over the years is slowing her down though.... Let us know what ultrasound shows. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmisk Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Thanks so much for the information. I'm headed over there in about an hour so at least I'll have some idea whats what. Hoping for the best. One newer drug, which lowers blood pressure and has been clinically shown to increase lifespan in dogs is Vetmedin (pimobendan). It's a vet-only med, so you won't be able to get it at a regular pharmacy, and it costs around $1/pill (Willow takes two pills a day). Another standard treatment is Enalapril. It's an ACE inhibitor, which acts indirectly to help blood vessels to relax, thereby reducing blood pressure and allowing the heart to work less hard. (Pimobendan works by a different mechanism.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 On the subject of heart murmurs, is it common for puppies to have them and grow out of them by 6 months or so? Is this due to the heart still growing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmisk Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Unfortunately, not a very good visit though the cardiologist said it is not all bad as there is no enlargement of the heart at this time and pressure is fine. At this time he felt it was not necessary to prescribe medication but did give me lasix in case of emergency and wants to do a check up in 6 months. Marley is still an extremely active dog and I can't help but second guess my judgement(s) on when to stop what ever activity he was involved in and say thats enough. I'll have to eliminate some of his activities and reduce the time of others. I'm just so sad right now as there really doesn't seem to be anything one can do for this. I've attached the vet style report, perhaps those more in the know have other comments. The doctor was very thorough and as I was in the room pointed out the problems and explained as best he could. miskulin - marley 07-15-11 cardiology report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gail Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I had a dog with a very similar murmur and diagnosis several years ago. The initial diagnosis was similar - no meds now, but would expect to have to start meds after a 6 month check. Two years later, the murmur did not progress and never did start any heart meds. I continued to work my dog and was just cautious about over-stressing her - did not work her in high temps, high humiidity, etc and always was sure to have a tub of water for cooling if needed - but that is what made her happy, so I continued to work her. I did not really restrict her activity - I was just smart about what I allowed her/did not allow her to do. It sounds like your dog is in good condition - this is a plus for her heart and overall health. Don't panic (I know, easy for me to say...) - just be very observant and get regular check-ups. It may not progress, like my dog, and if it does, many of the heart meds are very effective. Good luck with Marley, gail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 mmisk, Did the vet tell you that you needed to limit Marley's activity? I've never limited Willow's activity. I remember when I had an ultrasound done (we were actually looking for internal indications of mast cell cancer) and the vet came out to tell me the sonographer had found fluid in her pericardial sac and they would need to aspirate it. I was surprised because she's NEVER shown any signs that she's having heart problems--runs with the pack, swims, goes as hard as ever, color good, etc. Anyway, they went back and looked again and couldn't find whatever it was that they thought was fluid the first time. I'm just asking because I've never been instructed to limit Willow's activity, and I don't. Now, I will say that I believe my Jill also has an enlarged heart, though it has not been clinically diagnosed (just going by observed symptoms). Her activity is limited, but she breathes hard, coughs, and has that raspy breath that dogs with heart failure seem to have. She'll also be 15 next month and has practically no hips, so her lack of mobility is probably more the result of her hips than her heart. I still let her do as much as she wants, but I am aware of her limitations and will stop and rest her when we take long walks. Anyway, talk to your vet. It would seem to me that if the condition isn't bad enough to warrant treatment, then Marley ought to be able to continue doing the activities he enjoys. But I do tend to follow a quality of life philosophy, so I tend to let my geriatrics, the lame and the halt, do as much as they can do if they still enjoy doing it. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 I'm sorry to hear about the diagnosis, but I don't think it needs to be the end of doing things with your dog! When Missy was nine, the vet found a heart murmur and an u/s showed mitral valve scarring. At that time there was no heart enlargement so no meds. at the recheck a year later there was some heart enlargement so she was started on enalipril. After a two years of enalipril, her heart enlargement did not significantly increase. During this time the only thing I did differently was to monitor her exercise so she didn't over do it. I stopped fetch games 5 minutes earlier, and encouraged her to take breaks while running. Other than that, I just let her be a Border Collie. I know you're probably reeling a bit from this diagnosis, but as far as chronic conditions go, this one can be fairly easy for dogs to live with. It's pain free, they're still able to have a pretty normal routine and the drugs available are pretty effective and can really help to slow the progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmisk Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Thanks for the replies. The cardiologist recommended in his 'owner' write up (attached) to reduce the activity level a bit. Marley has extremely strong herding instincts but unfortunately, I do not have a farm or regular access to sheep so I never started him on any. When young, he did the dog park thing for social interaction but his primary activity has been frisbee. I can no longer throw lefty due to a nerve impingement I developed in my biceps, so we do a lot of that! Two years ago the local park in NY gave us and other dog owners the boot from an area where we were allowed off leash. With no replacement nearby area, our routine was reduced to the lcoal dog park which reinvigorated his herding instincts. People are frankly shocked when he out runs and wears down their one or two year old and he really does treat the goldens and labradoodles like sheep herding them about. But he is just as happy running out and back when another owner is playing ball with the chuck-it and their dog. That will be the activity I cut out (or greatly reduce) as he goes full bore until I say time to leave. Frisbee and even ball toss, I have far more control over how hard he runs (and how often), and that is what we do up here in Vermont where we spend the winter months and a bit in summer and fall. We hike as well which is relatively low inpact. I'll just have to pack the fresh snow down a little sooner now in the winter [with his tolerance of cold he could be a sled dog!] Think he is too old for obience stuff? That might be a good outlet too. miskulin - marley 07-15-11 case summary report.pdf I think I may not have attached the carido report correctly in my prior post here is that too: miskulin - marley 07-15-11 cardiology report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted July 16, 2011 Report Share Posted July 16, 2011 A dog is never too old to learn obedience or tricks or.... Keeping his mind active will help make up for the lowered physical activity! J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura L Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Jaax had a heart murmur all of his life. 2 years ago at a regular vet visit they did some x-rays (for his tumor in his lung) and found that his heart was enlarged and he went on enalapril at that time. He had x-rays done every 6 months just to keep an eye on both the heart & tumor. We never restricted his activity during his working years and he never did have any coughing that was out of the ordinary. When we had him put to sleep at just short of 15 years old, it was just because of old age. Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmisk Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Jaax had a heart murmur all of his life. 2 years ago at a regular vet visit they did some x-rays (for his tumor in his lung) and found that his heart was enlarged and he went on enalapril at that time. He had x-rays done every 6 months just to keep an eye on both the heart & tumor. We never restricted his activity during his working years and he never did have any coughing that was out of the ordinary. When we had him put to sleep at just short of 15 years old, it was just because of old age. Laura Thanks for the info Laura. I'm sure hoping for the same thing here. It is brutally hot this week so I don't feel too bad about cutting things back to indoor activity. I plan to still play frisbee and ball with Marley and there are a few dogs I know he can be around without going all out once the weather gets a bit cooler too. I just wish he were starting from a better place on the severity scale. I'm also going to be dropping the reports off to his local vet here in NY as she has four borders herself and getting her take on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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