Kelso

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Glad to hear the coupler worked! I had a hard time with Cash and the leash. It was a pretty rough go for us, for a while. Walking him with Daisy was out of the question because she's got some reactivity issues and I did not need that rubbing off on him, so we had to do it the hard way.

 

One thing that I did with Cash (that I would not recommend for every dog) was actually, slightly flood him. I was against it at first, but I really had to do something to get over the hump I hit with him. We had a trainer working with us too. She quickly realized that he rebounded very, very fast from stress and that he LOVED playing with other dogs. We were dealing with his car issues and leash issues at the same time. I just picked him up, put him in my car and drove him to daycare. For a couple of days it was pretty stressful for him, but he almost instantly bounced back as soon as he was playing with the other dogs. After day 3, he was excited to go, waiting for me at the front door. After two weeks, I could walk him on leash from my house to the car, from the car to the daycare. They were short distances, but it was a huge win for us. Shortly after this, everything started falling into place. In this case, life rewards and some flooding did a world of good. On the other hand, this is the only dog I've met that could handle it.

[D'Elle]

Glad to hear the coupler worked! I had a hard time with Cash and the leash. It was a pretty rough go for us, for a while. Walking him with Daisy was out of the question because she's got some reactivity issues and I did not need that rubbing off on him, so we had to do it the hard way.

 

One thing that I did with Cash (that I would not recommend for every dog) was actually, slightly flood him. I was against it at first, but I really had to do something to get over the hump I hit with him. We had a trainer working with us too. She quickly realized that he rebounded very, very fast from stress and that he LOVED playing with other dogs. We were dealing with his car issues and leash issues at the same time. I just picked him up, put him in my car and drove him to daycare. For a couple of days it was pretty stressful for him, but he almost instantly bounced back as soon as he was playing with the other dogs. After day 3, he was excited to go, waiting for me at the front door. After two weeks, I could walk him on leash from my house to the car, from the car to the daycare. They were short distances, but it was a huge win for us. Shortly after this, everything started falling into place. In this case, life rewards and some flooding did a world of good. On the other hand, this is the only dog I've met that could handle it.

Very interesting, DaisyDuke, and I appreciate the information about your experience. I actually think that Kelso is a dog who can handle some flooding, if the foundation is strong enough and the flooding handled carefully, just as you did. I am already doing a bit of that, by carrying him out the front door and forcing him to be out there on a leash. He bounces back instantly in the house if I bring out a toy, so the situation seems similar to what you describe.

 

Also interesting to note that the tandem leash idea is not proving to be a useful long-term technique, after all, as Jester has clearly had enough of it already.

 

I am always fascinated by the ways in which the dogs who come and go in my home affect our pack unit here. Most of them find some way to fit into the pack, and even Kelso is doing that now in his own way. Our pack of three, Jes, Kit, and I, is very tight-knit, and our roles very comfortable to all of us. We share a lot of fun and affection, and I often feel that it is highly beneficial to the transition of foster dogs to come into a situation where clearly Things Are Good For Dogs. I think that even Kelso is starting to catch on to this. Watching the dynamics shift and flow is a source of infinite learning and entertainment for me. How fortunate I am to be able to share my life with these amazing and graceful creatures.

D'Elle

[HollieDaze]

I'm loving each of the updates! How amazing to hear of the amazing creature Kelso is emerging from being deeply submerged!

[D'Elle]

Today is a good day for Kelso -- no more Cone! We went first thing this morning to get the stitches taken out. (I tried to take him in two days early but they told me I had to wait, so I wasn't going to wait until the end of the day today....I got him in before they even opened the clinic this morning!) I just couldn't wait for that to be over for him, because it has been stressing him out.

 

I am hoping that without the Dread Cone Of Shame he will start to make progress again. We are working on getting him out the front door, preparatory to his being able to go places and have new experiences. What I am doing so far is that he now gets fed next to the front door. We started in the living room, but as far from the door as possible, and every day got about a foot closer to the door. Now we are almost right at the door, and the next step will be to have the door open.

 

Kelso seems to be more relaxed in the house these days, although he still shies away from me a good deal of the time. (This is one of the things I hope will get better now that there's no cone). He does come out when we have play sessions, though, and it is beautiful to see. He just loves to play, and even though he is still fearful in how he goes about it, I see him growing a tiny bit in confidence. Nothing bad happens during play, and no one is focusing on him, not even me, so he is now frequently darting in to grab the toy if one of the other dogs drops it. Every now and then he even tugs just ever so briefly with me if I take the other end of the tug toy and gently pull on it. I still keep sessions short and low-key, and watch closely for any signs of stress among the dogs. So far, though, it is going well, and I am just so happy that he can play.

 

I am concerned about where he can stay when I go on vacation this summer, though. I have had the trip planned since October and cannot change it.

When I took Kelso it really did not occur to me that it would take so long for him to be rehabilitated. (Silly me). I don't mind how long it takes, at this point, but I cannot take him with me on the trip, as I am already taking my 2 dogs and that kind of travel would be Hell for Kelso. It just wouldn't work. Practically speaking, there isn't even room in the car for another dog. I am hoping that someone can look after him for me - someone who understands what these dogs need, and who will be patient and kind. My trip is 2 months away but I am already worried about it.

D'Elle

[JohnLloydJones]

I am concerned about where he can stay when I go on vacation this summer, though. I have had the trip planned since October and cannot change it.

I'm sure that one of the AZBCR foster homes will be able to take Kelso as a temporary foster. This does happen fairly frequently. Let Kelly know in reasonable time and someone will rise to the occasion.

[D'Elle]

I am wondering the past couple of days if I should try a new approach with Kelso. He has not become any less likely to shy away from me and he has never approached me for attention, although I can coax him to approach me if I have yummy food. He usually ducks when I reach out to pet him, even though I almost always do so from a low position rather than standing. He still doesn't like for me to look directly at him, and moves away from me if I walk near him.

 

So.....perhaps I should try *not* looking at him at all, and almost pretending he is not there, or even ignoring him. I started trying this last night. My dogs and I were having our nightly love-in on the living room floor and Kelso as usual was watching from a safe distance. Usually I encourage him to come close although he has never done so. Last night I ignored him completely, and he crept up closer than he has previously, although that still doesn't mean very close. I also stopped looking at him when I walked by him in the kitchen, stopped reaching out a hand to him, etc. And he allowed me to walk right by him without getting up to move away. When he walked into the living room I watched him out of the corner of my eye to see what he would do but did not acknowledge his presence at all. Maybe I will continue this tack and see where it leads us. May as well try it.

 

It is impossible to know what will really work with this dog, so it is all trial and error.......I just have to hope that something I try will eventually work.

As always, suggestions are welcome.

:-)

D'Elle

[mbc1963]

Interesting!

 

My Buddy will not go to people who try too hard: stare at him, try to coax him, grab him, etc.. However, if someone completely ignores him and lets him approach at his own pace, he does much better. I know that for Buddy, direct stares and hard eye contact are very threatening - he'll go a long way to avoid interaction or contact with dogs who approach that way. (He'll walk off a trail and pretend to be sniffing - really, REALLY hard - at the grass over there, all to send the signal that he doesn't notice that other dog coming, not at all.)

 

Mary

[urge to herd]

Add Shoshone to the list of dogs who prefer no direct attention. She's come a looooooong way, but still won't hold a look unless she really, really wants something.

 

Kelso is doing great, and so are you! I read the updates every day - thanks for keeping us all in the loop.

 

Ruth

[arf2184]

Meg too shies away from people that try too hard to pet her, but will walk right up to those who ignore her.

 

Today I walked to a friend's parent's house and Meg came in with me. My friend's mom tried calling Meg over and reaching out to pet her and Meg would have none of it. My friend's dad isn't a dog person and completely ignored Meg. Meg walked up to him and put her head in his lap to say hello (and this is a dog who is usually more shy of men than women). Go figure.

 

I think its worth a try with Kelso. If petting isn't really rewarding for him yet, I think I'd keep treats in my pockets at all times and reward him (without looking at him) anytime he comes toward you on his own to encourage the behavior.

[ShoresDog]

I think "ignore him but treat him when he approaches" is a great way to deal with his shyness for now. For him maybe "treat" = squeaky toy? It sure sounds like you're doing very well.

 

Although my Daisy likes being with people, she doesn't like direct attention. I just tell people, Daisy wants to be part of the group, she just wants to be the invisible member. Unless there's a ball in your hand, of course!

[Star]

Star loves attention and is often in my lap, but when she is being a little naughty, nothing works better than ignoring her. If she doesn't want to give me the ball, I quit playing and then she practically throws it at me. When I work on her recall out in a field, if she's not listening I quit calling and walk away (I think I read this on here). Works EVERY time. I have to truly be ignoring her, though, as she can tell the difference. Maybe there's something in the border collie psyche...kind of like the three year old tugging at your skirt while you're on the phone. Back at the ranch, I had a feral male cat show up to eat each night. I couldn't get within 30 feet of him at first. I just let him be and eventually he would eat right next to me and let me touch him. Probably took 6 months. I have followed your thread and think you are just wonderful to love this dog! I have no idea if this would be a good idea, but perhaps worth a try--maybe just let him be in your life and run your life as you normally would (less focus and attention on him). See if he starts to find a way to fit into it. Another idea since he seems comfie with the other dog is to just take them out front together (not tied together) and play with your other dog but leave him alone? I am by no means an expert when it comes to dogs (and especially border collies!)--just ideas I had as I was reading your thread....

[D'Elle]

Again, I want to say thank you to all who are offering me so much encouragement and so many kind words about Kelso's and my work together. And I want to note that, although I am the one writing about it here, there are many others who are working with Kelso's relatives and kennel mates, and with border collies from other terrible situations, and putting their love and attention into them. Many have been doing this work far longer than I have and I feel fortunate that they trust me with one of these special dogs.

 

I appreciate, too, the feedback on my current approach of basically almost ignoring him. Very interesting to hear of other, "Normal" dogs who shy from being touched or don't like to hold eye contact. I am not used to that, with my two dogs who mob me for attention and gaze into my eyes, so it's great to hear that it's something that Kelso doesn't necessarily have to change completely in order to be a happy companion dog. Very useful information for me --thanks so much.

 

The one thing I am not changing, though, is how he gets fed. Although I no longer require that he eat out my my hand, I do require that he eat next to me while I sit on the floor next to the front door, and some days he refuses to come eat. Although it's hard for me to do so, I have gotten hardcore about it and if he doesn't come to the door to eat within 15 minutes I pick up the food and that is that. It has not happened often, and he always comes for the next meal. I figure I have to push him a little bit on some things or he would never leave his comfort zone.

I want to keep adding different things, slowly but surely.

 

We are not doing the out-the-front-door-on-leash any longer, as it seemed counterproductive. Here again, I do not know but what I should have kept it up. Perhaps a breakthrough was just around the corner. You never know. I will try it again, of course, at some point. But for now we are taking a different tack.

 

OK, here's the good news!! Last night Kelso tugged with me! Yes, he actually held onto the tug toy and pulled back and kept it up for at least 6 or 7 seconds. (I was trying to count the seconds but was too excited, and trying too hard not to show my excitement, to be able to concentrate ). He always darts in to grab the toy now, once one of the other dogs has dropped it, and I take the other end carefully, not grabbing fast, and pull gently. Although just once, early on, he held on for a couple of seconds, that was not repeated until last night; instead he'd just let it go, and I would tease it along the floor trying to get him to pick it up again. But last night he really held on, and pulled back! Not hard, but still a pull. And he did it more than once.

Kelso played with me!!!!

So now our evening play looks like this: I sit on the living room floor and throw the tug toy, Jester rushes to fetch it and drops it near me. Kelso rushes in to grab it, I take the other end, Kelso and I tug a few seconds, and then Kit dashes in and grabs it and she and I tug. I let go, Jes grabs it, and Jes and Kit tug. Eventually Kit lets go, and Jes brings it back to me and the whole things starts over again. I love it. Simple minds are entertained easily, I guess, but give me this any evening, over cocktail parties or movies or whatever other people do for entertainment.

 

I think that the way to this dog's heart is through play.

I never would have guessed it, with a dog who was caged and neglected and never played with in his whole life.

Just goes to show something or other. Mostly that these dogs are amazing, and unpredictably wonderful.

D'Elle

[ShoresDog]

Kelso plays with you now! Awesome!

[JohnLloydJones]

Kelso played with me!!!!

 

That's a very good sign. I see that Taff is still very skittish around my wife. We need to do some work on that.

 

I must update Taff's progress -- way too busy this last week, but I hope to get some free time this long weekend.

[D'Elle]

Update: Kelso is getting more and more into playing, and is now playing tug with me for fully 30 seconds at a time. I cannot look directly at him, and I must tug only very gently, or he will let go and retreat. But it has gotten to where I can pull the tug toy from side to side, gently, and he hangs on. And he has become very fast and assertive at darting in to grab the toy when it lands on the ground. He goes nuts for squeaky toys as well.

 

Not once has Kelso ever shown aggression to anyone, nor has he ever made a sound. He takes treats ever so gently. I just love this dog; he is such a good and gentle spirit. I just wish so much I could somehow get into his head and rid him of the fear.

 

The other day he came in with cholla cactus spines in his mouth and lips. I was amazed that he simply lay placidly on the floor and let me pull them out with pliers and tweezers, even the ones that were in his gums. And when I had them all out he looked at me................now, I am not one for anthropomorphizing, but I swear there was gratitude. As if he were saying, "You'd do that for me?". It was touching.

 

(I hate cholla and won't have it on my property, but the @#&**$@ packrats carry it in)

 

I have started doing 10 to 15 minutes of Tellington Touch on him every day. I tried it earlier, but he would not relax when touched, so I backed off. But now he is relaxing into it, so I think it is doing some good.

 

And, the other day as I was passing out treats in the kitchen, he actually touched the back of my leg with his nose. That is the first time he's ever touched me on his own. I was so glad I was wearing shorts, so that I felt it. Of course, he instantly got another treat for that.

[JohnLloydJones]

The other day he came in with cholla cactus spines in his mouth and lips. I was amazed that he simply lay placidly on the floor and let me pull them out with pliers and tweezers, even the ones that were in his gums. And when I had them all out he looked at me................now, I am not one for anthropomorphizing, but I swear there was gratitude. As if he were saying, "You'd do that for me?". It was touching.

 

We've had plenty of experience with cholla cactus spines, including my Senneca getting a mouthful. I take it as a sign of trust that Kelso let you remove them.

[Todd's Mom]

Yay Kelso! He's making strides! I think we need new pictures with the wonderful news!

[ShoresDog]

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you're making some good progress. Kelso seems to be a gentle soul, and I hope he can find his way out from under the fear, with your help.

 

 

(I hate cholla and won't have it on my property, but the @#&**$@ packrats carry it in)

Cholla is awful!! It's not just that the spines are horribly prickly and hurt like h*ll, but it's like the pieces of it actually spring up from the plant or ground and leap onto you! Good for Kelso to quietly let you remove them. That says volumes about his feelings toward you. There's a space around you where the fear is much, much less.

[Cody & Duchess]

I often think of how much wisdom dogs impart to us when we interact with them. You have given Kelso an extraordinary gift but I think that he makes you wiser every day with new found insights, patience, and determination. Thanks for your efforts and the updates.

[KrisK]

You and Kelso are on an amazing journey and we get to follow along. Good boy, Kelso - I think he's finding out that life is GOOD! Thank you for your dedication.

[Sue R]

Wow, what a wonderful example of the trust he has in you!

 

Very, very best wishes!

 

PS - And a nose nudge! I think he knows what a lucky dog he has become, finding you to love him.

[D'Elle]

I often think of how much wisdom dogs impart to us when we interact with them. You have given Kelso an extraordinary gift but I think that he makes you wiser every day with new found insights, patience, and determination. Thanks for your efforts and the updates.

I always say that the foster dogs give me far more than I could ever give to them. I learn so much and have so many opportunities to grow in understanding with them. It is possible that Kelso is teaching me more than any of the others. It is a privilege to have the opportunity to be with him during this period of his life.

[D'Elle]

News! News!

 

Kelso is now really playing tug with me. Up until a few days ago, he would only hang on to the tug toy in a very tentative way and I had to tug gently or he would just let go. But suddenly a few nights ago he decided to hang on, and even pull back a little bit! I was so excited and happy for him. He is really gaining in confidence for playing. I always keep the tug/throw sessions indoors fairly short, and end on a happy note, whereupon all dogs get Treats so that ending the play is never seen as a sad thing.

 

That night after the play and dinner, Kelso for the very first time came into the living room and lay on the floor about 3 feet from my chair. That made my heart lift, I can tell you! He has not repeated it since, but I love those "firsts", because my experience is that they do get repeated.

 

Here's the best part of all:

 

As you know if you have been reading this, I have been trying for weeks to get Kelso out the front door. If he won't go out the front door, then I cannot teach him to walk on a leash or ride in the car, two things that are necessary for him to have a good dog life.

 

Well, It finally occurred to me that I was being So Stupid, not to use the tool that I have discovered excites him so much: the sound of a squeaky toy! I found out that if he went under the house and did not want to come out again, I could get him to run out if I squeaked the toy. So why it took me so long to use it to get him out the front door, I have no idea. Dumb! But, on the other hand, I do think that things happen in their own time, and apparently it was not time until Tuesday of this week.

 

I got his attention with the squeaky, and he ran out into the living room. Getting the leash on him was another matter altogether, and took some time, but then I carried him outside as usual, and set him down. He was about to go into his terrified mode when I squeaked the toy and *BOOM* he was alert, running around, eyes bright, ears up, tongue lolling, tail wagging. I was astounded. We stayed out there for 15 minutes and at no point did he show fear, only eagerness to get that toy.

 

The next night was the same, and Thursday night I leashed Kelso, opened the door and released my dogs to go out, and Kelso ran out with them! He ran out the front door! I was so startled that I had to grab for the leash. I felt like jumping up and down and cheering. But of course with Kelso I always have to keep it calm and take care not to focus on him, lest he withdraw again. Even when we are playing, if I look right at him or reach out towards him, he will withdraw. Nevertheless, this is a huge step. And a victory for Kelso. I know now what I will use to get him into the car, to walk on a leash, and other things as they come up. This dog is squeaky-motivated!

 

Oh, you should see him when he is playing. I have figured out how to get him to run around me so that he will get some running in the front yard without me having to pound along beside him. He is a magnificent sight. I will try to get video of it to show you. Kelso is still a very long way from being adoptable, but the progress he is making lately is wonderful. He's such a courageous dog.

D'Elle

[mbc1963]

Your post immediately reminded me of perhaps the funniest dog story ever told. If you read it the first time, this slide says it all:

 

 

If you haven't read it yet, you MUST GO NOW.

 

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/11/dogs-dont-understand-basic-concepts.html

 

Mary

[bn_here_b4]

D'Elle, I am really enjoying watching Kelso bloom through your eyes. I look forward to each new chapter of his story that you post. Thanks for takIng time to write these updates.

 

Mary, isn't Simple Dog hilarious?!?!! One of my favorites.