Northof49 Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 This is going to sound weird, but has anyone removed a micro-chip from a dog? We took a dog into our rescues from another rescue because of issues, and they didn't send the micro-chip paperwork with the dog. We are in the process of finalizing an adoption for this dog and they are refusing to give us the papework. They want to keep themselves on the microchip paper as first contact, and said they would add the owner and us as 2nd and third contact. I have told them that this is not acceptable - they relinquished all rights and interests in this dog when they transferred it to our rescue. Our protocol is the micro-chip goes in the name of tne new owner, and one of our rescue people in the area are the second contact name, so if the owner's can't be contacted, we will be and can arrange to get the dog. However, they won't budge on this at all, and needless to say it is really making me mad! SO the only thing I can think of is to remove the current microchip and re-microchip the dog ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 If the location of the chip can be pinpointed, then I think it would be a simple surgical matter for a vet to cut the skin and remove the chip, in theory. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennkopp Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 I would contact the chip manufacturer. Provide proof that the dog belongs to you (or the new owner) and they will contact your veterinarian to confirm that you have the dog and to confirm the chip number. That worked for us. If it does not, the chip company should be able to tell you how to proceed. I don't think removing the chip should be necessary, and definitely don't put in a second chip. Glenn ETA: Should be "don't put in a second chip if the first one isn't removed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 If the other rescue relinquished ownership to your rescue, you should have that in writing. I would fax that to the microchip company as proof that you own the dog, and request they change the contact information. Legally, your veterinarian CANNOT remove the microchip without the permission of the person listed as the contact on the chip, which in this case is the other rescue, so that's not going to be an option. You need to find a way to convince the microchip company that you own the dog. RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Cindy has contacted the Micro-chip Company and send them the emails back and forth and they are willing to do the paperwork for us. Unfortunately, they never sent the signed relinquishment back either. We have never had this problem before with another rescue group, and we won't be dealing with them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura L Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Did the microchip company say that the chip is actually registered already? I've been watching the subject because we got a dog with a chip and after calling today, the chip is not registered so we just have to send in the registration with our information on it. Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 They want to keep themselves on the microchip paper as first contact, and said they would add the owner and us as 2nd and third contact. whoa! That sounds a bit controlling They don't let any adopter put themselves down as first contact?? I had no issue at all changing the contact info to whomever I wanted to with Kenzi's chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 We are always the first contact on the microchip, and the adopter is second. That way, if the dog is continually getting out and picked up by Animal Control etc., we are aware there is a problem and can step in to remedy it. And if the adopter should someday down the line dump the dog in a shelter, we'll be contacted to collect it. It's not about "control," it's about standing behind the dogs we adopt out and demonstrating that we care about that dog for the remainder of its lifetime. However, if I were transferring a dog to another rescue, I'd assume that I abdicated my rights to be a contact for the dog. RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 We are always the first contact on the microchip, and the adopter is second. That way, if the dog is continually getting out and picked up by Animal Control etc., we are aware there is a problem and can step in to remedy it. And if the adopter should someday down the line dump the dog in a shelter, we'll be contacted to collect it. It's not about "control," it's about standing behind the dogs we adopt out and demonstrating that we care about that dog for the remainder of its lifetime. However, if I were transferring a dog to another rescue, I'd assume that I abdicated my rights to be a contact for the dog. RDM That's a really good point - I hadn't thought about it in that light. But I'm still glad that I have control for my dog's chip. I ended up taking the rescue contact off altogether after some issues arose with the contact they had put on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 That way, if the dog is continually getting out and picked up by Animal Control etc., we are aware there is a problem and can step in to remedy it. RDM What, exactly, do you mean by this. I too would insist on being the first contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 We are always the first contact on the microchip, and the adopter is second. We also do this, but I recently found out that some chip companies will transfer the chip to the adopter, if the adopter submits a copy of the adoption contract showing that they are now the owner. We also send the dogs to their new homes with the collar we gave them and with our ID tags. Adopters often show up with a collar, but rarely have both a collar and ID tags when they come to pick up their dog. I always tell them to keep the collar until they can get ID tags with their info on them (which they are required to do according to our contract). I'm glad that we do this because I've been contacted on more than one occasion about a dog that has been found that got loose from it's owners. And this is often many months later. As RDM said, if it becomes a recurring problem, then we can step in and figure out how to remedy it. I've only really faced this once. It was a dog that got loose about 3 times in a two-week period. Every time, I was contacted. On the third time, I had a very frank discussion with the adopter about the issue and what needed to be done to resolve it. It hasn't happened since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 What, exactly, do you mean by this. I too would insist on being the first contact. I'm sure RDM would speak for herself, but ISTM that when you adopt from a rescue you agree to abide by certain requirements, and I'd think that one of the most basic requirements would be not letting your dog run loose to be picked up by animal control. Rescues are trying to place dogs in safe situations, and a situation where the dog is being picked up by AC clearly isn't safe for the dog. I assume that RDM would then contact the adopter and have a frank discussion (as Mary notes) regarding the problem of the dog running loose. I see it as a safety net FOR THE DOG, and if that hurts the human's feelings, well, then the human probably should be a bit more careful about management of the dog. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I have another question - what is protocol if the rescue contact info needs to get changed for some reason? Or if the group gets dissolved? would you then change/remove your info on the chips? Let the current owners know so they could set up different contact info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 We also do this, but I recently found out that some chip companies will transfer the chip to the adopter, if the adopter submits a copy of the adoption contract showing that they are now the owner. The chip company we use has a whole file for us and instructions to leave all the chips in our name and owners always as a secondary contact. They are very good about informing us when owners ask to be added to the contact list etc. As for dogs being picked up by AC - once is a mistake and I contact the adopter to let them know the dog is at the shelter; twice is a problem and the adopter and I have a frank discussion about keeping the dog safe; and the third time I come claim the dog from the shelter myself and the adopter may or may not get it back from me. I don't adopt out dogs to let them run around willy nilly in traffic, and I certainly don't adopt them out to be euthanized in an AC that kills for space because the adopter does't return calls from AC or come retrieve the dog. If the dog is in a shelter for ANY reason, I want to know about. A friend of mine who rescues a different breed got a phone call one morning ... seems the adopter had tied the dog to the shelter fence some time in the night and left it there for the staff to find when they arrived for work. The dog was scanned and the chip was registered to said friend, so she could go retrieve the dog. If the adopter had been the contact, calling them would have been fruitless since they left the dog there in the first place. I don't really see the point of spending money to microchip a dog if I'm going to send it out there not being listed on the chip. I neuter my adoptable dogs to ensure they are never part of the BYB system, I vet and vaccinate them to ensure they are healthy and I microchip them to ensure I can keep them safe. Maybe a handful of applicants or adopters over the last 12 years and 1000 dogs have taken issue with the policy, and I always tell them they can go buy a dog instead ... but purebred, registered dogs in Canada must by law have a tattoo or a microchip identifying the breeder of that dog ;-) RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I know we've had it happen more than once but I've personally dealt with one of my fosters ending up in a shelter after he was adopted out. The shelter called us since we were first on the list and I called the owner. He was horrified and said that he had been looking for the dog all day. I know that accidents happen so I told him that the dog was safe and he went to the shelter and retrieved the dog. 2 weeks later I got a call from the same shelter, the dog was back having been picked up again by animal control wandering around in a neighborhood. I called the owner again and we discussed the problem. It turned out that the dog was getting out of the fence... from the little dog lot that they put up, well away from the house, where the dog was staying 24/7. That violates our adoption contract and in the end I went and picked the dog back up. He was adopted out later to a wonderful home where the lady thinks he hung the moon and he returns the adoration. If we weren't first on the contact list I would never have found out about the living conditions and who knows what would have happened to the dog, hit by a car, euthanized at the shelter, or something equally awful. Most people don't mind that we are first on the contact list once we explain why. If they protest too much or say that they must be first on the contacts I simply tell them that I am not comfortable adopting the dog to them and that they need to look elsewhere for a dog. No arguments, just fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I know my case is the extreme exception to the rule, but about 8 months after I got Kenzi the rescue I got her from went through a big shake up. I found out about it when I was talking to Kenzi's foster mom. Otherwise I might have never known. And the #1 contact person for my dog would have been a person no longer involved with the rescue at all. So had she gotten lost who knows what would have happened. This experience is why I'd be a bit apprehensive about being #2 or 3 on the contact list, even thought I do understand a rescues POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 If there are additional names on a contact list, and AC can't reach the first name, wouldn't they then try the second name? The whole reason I put second contacts for my dogs is so that if I can't be reached, SOMEONE can. I'm sure AC staff are overworked, but ISTM if a shelter really wants to help the animal and not keep/euthanize it, they would try the second contact if the first contact led them nowhere. I hope that would be the case the majority of the time anyway. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlasl Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 If there are additional names on a contact list, and AC can't reach the first name, wouldn't they then try the second name? The whole reason I put second contacts for my dogs is so that if I can't be reached, SOMEONE can. I'm sure AC staff are overworked, but ISTM if a shelter really wants to help the animal and not keep/euthanize it, they would try the second contact if the first contact led them nowhere. I hope that would be the case the majority of the time anyway. J. Speaking as a Animal Control Officer (albeit a new one as I have only been on the job 4 months), yes we absolutely call the second contact if we don't get in touch with the first contact. But we are a small upscale city, we don't have a shelter (we hold animals at a Vet clinic, and have a 90% reclaim/adoption rate, and we only euthanize for health or temperament), we even have a scanner in our truck and try to scan them and take them home so we don't have to impound them. The problem we encounter more often than not is people not registering the chips at all...or not updating their information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I know my case is the extreme exception to the rule, but about 8 months after I got Kenzi the rescue I got her from went through a big shake up. I found out about it when I was talking to Kenzi's foster mom. Otherwise I might have never known. And the #1 contact person for my dog would have been a person no longer involved with the rescue at all. So had she gotten lost who knows what would have happened. This experience is why I'd be a bit apprehensive about being #2 or 3 on the contact list, even thought I do understand a rescues POV. I can understand the POV of the rescues, but having lived places where the ACO and shelter were borderline incompetent I would really feel uncomfortable not being the first contact on a chip. In addition, if JQP picked up a dog and took the dog to a vet to get scanned, would they follow up with a second contact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I've seen and heard of enough instances of JQP not even bothering to look for a first owner and just adopting found dogs or giving them to someone else that I have come to realize the microchipping and other forms of ID are only as good as the finder will allow them to be. There are exceptions to rules, and not all rescues or rescuers are created equal, but I do understand WHY a rescue might want to be listed first on a microchip. I'm sure that if an owner/adopter expressed concern a rescue would work with them on an individual basis. As Carlasl noted, many people don't bother to update chip information; I would think that legitimate, established (rescue) organizations would be more likely to do so--the other side of the coin being that an established rescue isn't as likely to need to update information. Anyway, both sides to this discussion are valid, but for the people who are apparently offended by the very idea of rescue being listed on a chip, I still stand by the argument that the rescue is doing it for the best interests of the dog, and not to personally insult or make life difficult for adopters. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I can understand the POV of the rescues, but having lived places where the ACO and shelter were borderline incompetent I would really feel uncomfortable not being the first contact on a chip. In addition, if JQP picked up a dog and took the dog to a vet to get scanned, would they follow up with a second contact? If JQP picked up the dog and the vet scanned the chip and there were two contact numbers, why would they call one and not the other? I work for AC and we will not only call all the numbers on the chip, but we will try for days to decipher old tattoos on animals both alive and dead. Granted, we are an upscale shelter with an insanely high return rate - but I really can't see an average person receiving the information that there are two numbers to call associated with a chip, and giving up if they can't reach the first person at the first number. My old roommate adopted a dog from the local SPCA and she had a tattoo in her ear that the shelter never followed up on, and upon investigating, it turned out the dog had originally been adopted from THAT shelter and they put the tattoo there in the first place! Yet they never contacted the owner when they impounded the dog. So no method is foolproof. But all we can do is hedge our bets in the best interests of keeping the animal safe. RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Anyway, both sides to this discussion are valid, but for the people who are apparently offended by the very idea of rescue being listed on a chip, I still stand by the argument that the rescue is doing it for the best interests of the dog, and not to personally insult or make life difficult for adopters. I didn't see anyone in this thread offended by a rescue being on the chip. Just people who have different perspectives and valid concerns. Both have the dogs welfare as their top concern. But life experiences have led them to different conclusions on what they feel most comfortable with. Personally I have no issues at all with the with the rescue being on the chip - I think it is a very good policy. I just want to be the first/main contact. Because just as things can change in life for the adopter, the same can be true with the rescue. In the end just I want it to be as simple as possible for the information of where my dog is to reach me as very quickly if something should happen. Of course if everyone were as concerned about their dog's care and well being as the people posting here are, then the whole issue would pretty much be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 One of my own pets was lost, found as a stray and adopted by the people who picked her up. During the whole process no one ever checked for a microchip. (I wanted to give the vet who failed to scan her a piece of my mind! It even said on her vet records, which I was able to recover, that she was found as a stray. ) Thankfully she landed safely home, but only because a family member noticed her looking out the window of their home. Supposedly they didn't see any of the posters I put up in the area, or the one that I KNOW I put IN their mailbox. Despite all that I do still microchip all my pets. Had I needed to fight for ownership of my cat the chip would have been proof beyond a doubt that she was mine. Chips do reunite pets with their owners on a regular basis. Actually, I have a funny chip story. A cat was presented to be neutered. During his pre surgery exam the vet couldn't find his testicles. Worried that the cat had not be labeled properly upon presentation to the front desk, he was scanned for a chip. The company was called and he belonged to someone who didn't even use that animal hospital! The woman who had dropped the cat off was called and told what was going on. That morning she had gone to the porch and called her cat. A black male cat ran up to her, she put him in the carrier and brought him to the vet to be neutered. She didn't realize she had captured a pet owned by someone else, leaving her own cat roaming the neighborhood. It was both very scary and comical at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 We got the micro-chip company to do up the paperwork for us to have us listed as the rescue group. Just for clarification - an all breed rescue group contacted us and asked for us to take one of their dogs into our rescue which we happily did, but they were refusing to transfer the micro-chip papers to us. They still wanted to be shown on the papers as the owner of the dog, which meant that if anything happened to the dog, they would be contacted instead of our rescue group and the new owner. That is want I didn't find acceptable. They relinquished all rights to this dog, they didn't have the right to keep themselves registered as the owners on the micro-chip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixx Posted March 5, 2011 Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 On the topic of microchip: I recently had a problem with a microchip as well... or the vet I should say. I requested an AVID microchip from my vet. I even asked them 3 different times about the AVID paperwork to follow the insertion. I also had a witness hear my request. Little did I know, the vet would insert a Home Again microchip. I was pretty upset about this. The vet completely ignored my request! Home Again wants $17 a year for subscription, as opposed to AVID's one time registration fee of $20. In all the years I've owned dogs, fostered dogs, etc, I've always gone with AVID and have it no other way and it's served me well. The vet offered to pay to get her double microchipped with an AVID chip. This seems a little weird, and who knows if they will cancel each other out, or which one would be picked up by a scanner. Does anyone have Home Again? If so, are they reputable? Any problems/comments? I looked at their website, but I can't judge a book by it's cover. I don't know of anyone who has Home Again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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