hans Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Dewi Fan by John Bell fetched a staggering 6000 gns. the equivalent of 6300 British Pounds, a price never achieved so far in a dog sale. Fan is by the International Supreme winner 2009 Dewi Tweed. Fan is a quality bitch that with additional training will make a nice nursery dog. Skipton Sale spring 2011 Dewi Fan Sets a new world record go to on You tube to see this impressive sale. Or search for Skipton spring sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 Did I convert that right, just over $10,000.00 US dollars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'm not sure how this is a world record. Didn't a dog sell at the Red Bluff sale in 2007 for $23,000 USD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Skipton Sale spring 2011 Dewi Fan Sets a new world record The world is smaller over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 The world is smaller over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Do people at those sales bid higher on dogs with the pedigree du jour? Or do they mostly bid based on the work they see on the day of the sale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream spirit Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 shocking to me ...dogs SURE have gone up in sales price! How old is this dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 For comparison, here is the high selling 2011 Red Bluff dog Eric Wanman's Grit sold for $10,000...apparently Red Bluff is feeling the effects of the Recession, as prices were down this year. Maybe Han's meant World Record for 2011? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAwxqcAO4fo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyrcini-678 Which dog would you pay $10,000 for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Which dog would you pay $10,000 for? Personally, I wouldn't pay $10,000 for either dog. But if I had to make a choice I would have to consider what I wanted the dog for. They are two totally different dogs that have been presented for different purposes and are marketed to two totally different types of buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagRam Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Personally, I wouldn't pay $10,000 for either dog. But if I had to make a choice I would have to consider what I wanted the dog for. They are two totally different dogs that have been presented for different purposes and are marketed to two totally different types of buyers. What Debbie said - different dogs being marketed for different purposes. BTW - Grit was sold at the 2011 sale a couple weeks ago so the proce comparisons are current. A question from watching the videos though - it looked to me like Grit crossed over on both outruns. Is this not as important inworking cattle as working sheep ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sluj Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 For those of you who breed, how do you feel about buying/selling at auction? I got the impression that you prefer to have more control over who your dog goes to, though presumeably someone who pays $10K+ for a dog would take good care of their investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think that different people have different opinions on the cross over depending on if they feel that the cross over is interferring with the job, it also depends on what they feel the dogs job is. When it comes to a judged cattledog trial, as far as I know it is deducted similuarly as if you are running on sheep, but I may be wrong, we treat it the same and consider it a no-no. Even on point/time we want our dogs to go the way we send them, though at my last trial with Jake he crossed over at the last second and he still won. I'm not happy about it, but it did not effect how the cattle handled for him. As far as selling dogs at auction, our dog's sire sold at Denver last year, way before the sale buyers contacted Pete to get information about the dog, from what I understand he had a pretty good idea as to who the bidders were going to be. I've known some that have sold dogs through Kearney, they told me the same, they had the chance to speak to the potential bidders and could help the bidder decide if the dog was right for them or not. I doubt you will get someone bidding that has no idea what they are buying or who they are buying from, especially on the higher priced dogs. As to control over the dogs after the sale, I think that if you want to retain some type of ownership rights by being able to dictate what the buyer does with the dog you best not sell them at a auction or take measures to make sure that the dog is not used for what you fear, spay/neuter it or sell it as unregistered, but it will probably severely effect the sale price not only at the auction but if you were to sell it privately, at least it is what I would expect, a reduction in the sale price. Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagRam Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I think that different people have different opinions on the cross over depending on if they feel that the cross over is interferring with the job, it also depends on what they feel the dogs job is. Deb Thanks for this info. That is what I thought but I was not sure. Certainly any dog - and esp young dogs - can and do cross over but if the question is whether I would pay $10K for a dog I would not want to see it crossing over 2 times out of 2 runs. But then I would be buying a dog for a different reson thanthese ranchers likely are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Something to think about is why did it cross over. If the dog crossed over to get to the pressure point it could just be a simple as a dog with feel that has not been trained to stay on the side sent or to not switch directions on their own accord. I would have to look to see what else the dog brought to the table, but a cross over would not be a deal breaker for me. I don't like a dog that crosses over to avoid pressure that is not stock related such as horseback set out, crowds or such. But that also could be lack of seasoning or because it was allowed. A dog that understands the job of simply bringing the cattle will opt for the path of least resistence to the back side of the livestock if allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagRam Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Something to think about is why did it cross over. If the dog crossed over to get to the pressure point it could just be a simple as a dog with feel that has not been trained to stay on the side sent or to not switch directions on their own accord. I would have to look to see what else the dog brought to the table, but a cross over would not be a deal breaker for me. I don't like a dog that crosses over to avoid pressure that is not stock related such as horseback set out, crowds or such. But that also could be lack of seasoning or because it was allowed. A dog that understands the job of simply bringing the cattle will opt for the path of least resistence to the back side of the livestock if allowed. Not saying it would be a deal breaker. But not what I would be hoping to see in a $10k dog. It would give me pause and cause me to hesitate before spending that much. For that amount of money I am more cautious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I agree with the different purposes school of thought on this one. Patrick, you are looking for a (sheep) trial dog--lot 17 will probably never cut it for that. And for *your* 10k, you'd better get one that doesn't cross over. You'd want one with a LOT more finesse and training on it. This is a dog that a rancher knows s/he can send out to gather the cattle, and it will get the job done. The dog looks pretty good to me (but I didn't watch all of both vids, nor did I have sound, as I am at work)--this dog has a lot of forward motion, willingness to hit either end, and a decent amount of stock sense. It's not as clear to me on the first vid (but there the dog looks like it's not sure that it's really being "set up" on either side, for all the dancing around it does before being sent). But in the second video, the dog seems to me to be going for the heads. It's the side that "makes sense" to the dog. If the cattle are facing the right, as they are (or mostly are) in this case, then to send the dog into the calves' butts makes no sense (to the dog. To the handler, yes, because if he sends away, he's sending the dog into the fence)...if the calves decide to leave, they will leave to the right. Then the dog has to go way farther around if he stays on the left side and does the come by outrun in order to try to cover the leaving stock. By going into the heads, the dog is taking the trajectory that will stop them from leaving. Remember the dog's primary instinctual edict? Don't ever let the stock get away. So, here, at least to me, I see a dog that has good stock sense, and one that is young (as they all are at Red Bluff), and one that hasn't quite yet learned to always do what the (sometimes foolish) human insists on, particularly when it makes no sense to the dog. So what people looking to buy dogs at Red Bluff are looking for are dogs that can, with minimal training, figure out what the job is and get it done. They want a dog that has a lot of natural talent (meaning stock sense), along with plenty of push. This dog seems to exhibit all of that, shows a good sense of balance, as it keeps trying to keep the stock together and to the handler, and has a pretty nice down. What's not to like? A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagRam Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 I agree with the different purposes school of thought on this one. Patrick, you are looking for a (sheep) trial dog--lot 17 will probably never cut it for that. And for *your* 10k, you'd better get one that doesn't cross over. You'd want one with a LOT more finesse and training on it. This is a dog that a rancher knows s/he can send out to gather the cattle, and it will get the job done. The dog looks pretty good to me (but I didn't watch all of both vids, nor did I have sound, as I am at work)--this dog has a lot of forward motion, willingness to hit either end, and a decent amount of stock sense. It's not as clear to me on the first vid (but there the dog looks like it's not sure that it's really being "set up" on either side, for all the dancing around it does before being sent). But in the second video, the dog seems to me to be going for the heads. It's the side that "makes sense" to the dog. If the cattle are facing the right, as they are (or mostly are) in this case, then to send the dog into the calves' butts makes no sense (to the dog. To the handler, yes, because if he sends away, he's sending the dog into the fence)...if the calves decide to leave, they will leave to the right. Then the dog has to go way farther around if he stays on the left side and does the come by outrun in order to try to cover the leaving stock. By going into the heads, the dog is taking the trajectory that will stop them from leaving. Remember the dog's primary instinctual edict? Don't ever let the stock get away. So, here, at least to me, I see a dog that has good stock sense, and one that is young (as they all are at Red Bluff), and one that hasn't quite yet learned to always do what the (sometimes foolish) human insists on, particularly when it makes no sense to the dog. So what people looking to buy dogs at Red Bluff are looking for are dogs that can, with minimal training, figure out what the job is and get it done. They want a dog that has a lot of natural talent (meaning stock sense), along with plenty of push. This dog seems to exhibit all of that, shows a good sense of balance, as it keeps trying to keep the stock together and to the handler, and has a pretty nice down. What's not to like? A Anna - you are correct. Since you know me you can correctly surmise that IF I were looking for a dog I would be looking for one for sheepdog trialing where a tendency to cross over would be a serious flaw that would need to be fixed. Thus, observing a tendency to cross over would cause me to lower the amount I would pay. Reality is I will listen to my professional advisor and pay what she tells me. It has worked pretty well for the last two dogs. But for work on a cattle ranch where the important thing is to get the cattle moving and under general control this does not seem to be as critical a factor. (Unless of course there is the cliff to one side that we always talk about). The dog did not seem to upset the livestock as it got out there and it definitely got the job done. For a young dog it held up to stock that wanted to go where they wanted to go. For someone looking for a useful dog on the ranch this is likely a very good dog. BTW - Hope to get down to your cattledog trial in a couple weeks for a look see at a cattle trial. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagRam Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 So what people looking to buy dogs at Red Bluff are looking for are dogs that can, with minimal training, figure out what the job is and get it done. They want a dog that has a lot of natural talent (meaning stock sense), along with plenty of push. This dog seems to exhibit all of that, shows a good sense of balance, as it keeps trying to keep the stock together and to the handler, and has a pretty nice down. What's not to like? A Just a further comment - I went to the YouTube site and looked at about 5 or 6 other dog videos from the sale. The only dog that did not cross over also did not move its cattle and was the lowest sales price from this years sale. So I can easily see that what the cattle rancher buying a dog at Red Bluff is different than what I would be looking for for a sheepdog trial. BTW - I would not want the one that could not move its stock either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 A dog can be trained to not cross over. But a dog that doesn't want to control it's stock is not much use. I would like to see smoother work in both dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Is the cattle dog wearing an "e" collar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Is the cattle dog wearing an "e" collar? No. The dogs that are entered in the auction wear wide red velcro "collars" that have their lot number on them, and designate that they are allowed on the grounds, as only dogs entered are allowed, A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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