Patcher Dog Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi all! I am new to this board and also fairly new to the world of BC's. In August of last year I found a young BC mix wandering on a busy street and took him home with me. After a week of trying to find owners by posting flyers, craigs list and on the lost and found boards I decided to keep him. I bonded very strongly with him but honestly didn't know what I was getting myself into. He house trained in 3 days, excellent!; He is very stubborn, not so excellent!; Very loving, excellent!; Can be distrustful, not excellent... He has had Kennel cough and Parvo (got it within a month of having him after 2 vaccines) and ear infections... So now he believes that the Vet is his mortal enemy. My question is this: Is there a way to make him less distrustful when things haven't gone his way? Or is this just part of border collie personality, as I have been told? I love this dog and want to make him successful, but right now I am having a hard time just getting him socialized because he freaks around stranger dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I wanted to include a picture of Patch from right after I picked him up. Hard to believe anyone would throw out such a hansome guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hi Patcherdog ~ What do you wish to make him successful at? The important thing I'd remember is that you have no idea of his past. Whatever he suffered at the vet's, his fearfulness may come from his life before. Border Collies can be very sensitive, and it just takes a lot of time and patience to bring him along. I would just move very slow in his socialization. Don't take him places where there are a lot of loose dogs, don't take him to dog parks. (Where loose dogs could run up on him and scare him with their rudeness.) If you can walk him on leash in places where other dogs are also on leash, you could try just walking him in their general vicinity and asking him to Sit at a safe distance, while they pass. Maybe reward him with a treat for sitting quietly. And pay attention to the distance at which he begins to get nervous with strange dogs. A nervous dog on leash IS going to be more reactive and defensive around other dogs. Or, if you have friends or co-workers with dogs, you could arrange this scenario in a controlled situation. But again, don't try to rush or force him into anything. For all you know, he may have been abused or bullied by dogs before you found him. And, because I live in a rural area and forget to think of these things, are there any puppy socialization classes in your area? How old is he? Though he may simply not want to be around a lot of other dogs. In my humble opinion, there honestly is nothing wrong with a dog who's a little aloof around strange dogs. Some border collies can be kind of "breed snobs" and won't want to identify with non-BC dogs who offer different behaviors than their own. But with time - it could be months - and patience, you can slowly work at getting him to stop reacting to dogs, by letting him get used to them at a distance, rather than nose-to-nose. Offer him an alternative to growling or whatever, by using treats or a clicker (others can advise you on clicker training) to keep him focused on you. Anyhow, the true dog behaviorists and trainers on these boards can give you better ideas, so best of luck! He's a very lucky guy to have come to you. Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woffie Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Welcome to the boards. Great looking dog. You asked why someone would get rid of such a great dog. Border Collies are not like any other dog that I have owned. Some people don't have the patients and commitment it takes to deal with some of the traits of the breed, that is why there are so many in rescue centers. I am glad that Patch has found a new home with you. Just be patient with him as you two learn to coexist together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Welcome! Patch is certainly a lucky guy to have you take him in. Gloria gave some excellent advice. I will just second her observation that BCs can be "breed snobs" at times. My two go to day care once a week and socialize very well, however, if it is just me and them in the park there could be a dozen other dogs in the park and they will just ignore them. Socialization can just take some time. As for the vet being his "enemy" now, I would just take him into the vet for no reason and ask the staff to give him a treat and few scratches and then leave. Make the vet a good experience too! (Of course, ask your vet if it is ok if you pop in from time to time to do this.) Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Patch is a handsome boy, and he landed in the right place. I can only echo what the others have said, particularly Gloria - take it slow, learn to read his body language and identify the first subtle signals that he's not comfortable. If he stiffens or tightens up, gets very still, then he's likely starting to feel some stress. If you can, back up until he relaxes and can pay attention to you, then ask for a sit or some easy thing. There's a great book called Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt, I'm sure you can find a used copy at Amazon, or your library might have a copy you can read. Wonderful resource. More pictures, please! Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I agree with the others. Give him some time to figure things out. Doing a lot of work with him at home, in your house and backyard will help boost his confidence. Teach him tricks etc. so that he gets more confident in YOUR relationship. Once he starts trusting you, you will see that it becomes easier to desensitize him to other things outside of your house. Some dogs take more time to settle in to their 'forever' homes, so it may take him a little more time. You just need to have patience. I think clicker training or any variation of positive reinforcement training would be very beneficial for the both of you. As mentioned Control Unleashed would be a good book, but depending on your dog training level, it could be a little confusing. If you do a search for Control Unleashed you might beable to find Kristine's (Rootbeer) post on which order to read it. If you're into reading, these books would also be valuable. Click to Calm (Emma Parsons), Feisty Fido, Cautious Canine (both Patricia McConnell), How to Right a Dog Gone Wrong (Pamela Dennison) and Scaredy Dog (Ali Brown) to name a few. Patricia McConnell also has a blog, it's awesome! Yahoo groups also has a couple of really good lists that are full of informative people. Pam Dennison (among other good trainers) is on one of them too, I just don't remember which one. They will be able to help you find a trainer in your area if you're so inclined. They are also good places to ask questions and bounce ideas off people. They are 100% supportive! Reactive Dog List http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pos-4-ReactiveDogs/ Shy Dog List http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/shy-k9s/ Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 In August of last year I found a young BC mix wandering on a busy street and took him home with me. How old do you estimate him to be now? He is very stubborn Border Collies are very bright and catch on quickly. Sometimes their intelligence makes them a little more challenging to train. Or is this just part of border collie personality, as I have been told? I don't think Border Collies are inherently distrustful. He had a rough start. Now he's safe and that's in the past. Let it stay there. Are you treating him like a "rescue"? Feeling sorry for him? He may be picking up on your attitude and that could be why he seems distrustful. They're very good at reading vibes you may not even know you're sending out. I am having a hard time just getting him socialized because he freaks around stranger dogs. I would agree with those who say Border Collies can be a little breed snobbish. How socialized do you want him to be? So he can play with other dogs in day care or a dog park setting, or just not ballistic when he sees another dog if he's walking on leash? Scooter isn't terribly fond of other dogs, but will tolerate them as long as they're not too rude. We don't go to dog parks and he doesn't have play dates. He prefers human interaction. Border Collies can be very sensitive so be patient. It will pay off in the long run. Just my personal, limited experience. Good luck and most of all, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasBC Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Do you have more pictures of him? Looks like an ACD mix IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Patch could be a purebred border collie, unless you consider this an ACD mix! J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do you have more pictures of him? Looks like an ACD mix IMO. I wish that I had more pictures of him, but he is really hard to get a picture of (doesn't really hold still well)! What is an ACD mix? I am pretty sure that he is a mix but mostly border collie. He has a really intimidating lock eye gaze when he wants something done his way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Patch could be a purebred border collie, unless you consider this an ACD mix! J. Wow! except for the ears this could be patch's twin! Patch's ears only stand half way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 In August of last year I found a young BC mix wandering on a busy street and took him home with me. How old do you estimate him to be now? He is very stubborn Border Collies are very bright and catch on quickly. Sometimes their intelligence makes them a little more challenging to train. Or is this just part of border collie personality, as I have been told? I don't think Border Collies are inherently distrustful. He had a rough start. Now he's safe and that's in the past. Let it stay there. Are you treating him like a "rescue"? Feeling sorry for him? He may be picking up on your attitude and that could be why he seems distrustful. They're very good at reading vibes you may not even know you're sending out. I am having a hard time just getting him socialized because he freaks around stranger dogs. I would agree with those who say Border Collies can be a little breed snobbish. How socialized do you want him to be? So he can play with other dogs in day care or a dog park setting, or just not ballistic when he sees another dog if he's walking on leash? Scooter isn't terribly fond of other dogs, but will tolerate them as long as they're not too rude. We don't go to dog parks and he doesn't have play dates. He prefers human interaction. Border Collies can be very sensitive so be patient. It will pay off in the long run. Just my personal, limited experience. Good luck and most of all, enjoy! He was about 4 to 5 months old when I picked him up according to teeth and I would estimate him at just under a year now. When I found him he had obviously had some training. He could sit, stay for a brief time and never ever went near the garbage. So when I couldn't find an owner I was shocked. I had him fixed and microchipped at the local shelter and that is where I believe that he caught the kennel cough. I want to make him successful at being a well behaved dog. He gets along swimmingly with my 5 year old beagle but when we get around other dogs he becomes very restless. I can't tell what his reaction means sometimes. At times it seems like he wants to play and other times like he wants to fight... That is what worries me. We go for walks in the late evening when most other dogs are not out, and I am not a fan of the dog park (parvo) so we never go there. The big problem right now is that he had a bilateral ear infection. I took him into the vet and he was so unruly that they muzzled him. He became an instant statue and had a full on panic attack. I have been treating the infection with both oral antibiotics and ear drops, but now he views treats as a threat. I get the salami out and he bolts. I have become so attached to him that sometimes I forget I haven't had him that long and he has been through a lot. I live in the Salem area in Oregon and I am looking for a good trainer so that I can take him for some one on one training and then maybe try an agility class later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 I wish that I had more pictures of him, but he is really hard to get a picture of (doesn't really hold still well)! What is an ACD mix? I am pretty sure that he is a mix but mostly border collie. He has a really intimidating lock eye gaze when he wants something done his way! Okay so ACD stands for Australian Cattle Dog, got it. I don't believe him to be an aussie mix just because of his personality and body shape, but it is completely possible. After all I found him so I don't know where he came from. I had an Austrailian once and could not get over his dominant personality, this is definitely not patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 All I can say, as regards Patch and other dogs, is what I said above. Go very slowly, let him take his time. Watch his body language, set him up to meet gentle, polite dogs and do not insist he gets closer than he's comfortable with. As for agility ... I'd put that way, way on down your list of things to do. He's got a very long way to go before he's comfortable with dogs, and the highly-charged, excited atmosphere of an agility field would be an awful lot for him. If you just want to introduce him to agility equipment for personal fun, that would be fine, but again, don't insist that he make friends with dogs. Just see if you can work on him being calm around them and focused on you, instead of worried what they might do. There's a good chance he once had trouble with strange dogs, so he feels justified in his concerns. As for his current upset with treats, poor boy! I feel for him and for you. What I recommend, then, is try hand-feeding him part of his meals. Sit down with him and let him eat, try feeding him some of his food by hand, and then begin re-introducing treats. Don't try to force the issue if he's presently associating it with medication. And as Vickie suggested, after he's better, try taking him by the vet hospital for no reason, and encourage the folks there to feed or just pet him. If he's too stressed, though, let it go. He's got an unknown past, and sadly, your task is to help him work his way along. He's a sensitive boy, so time and patience will be the key. One day you'll look around and be happily amazed at how very far you and Patch have come. Cheers ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufftie Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 just a side comment- as i know we're all sticklers for correct terminology . there is a difference between aussie, generally a nickname for the the australian sheperd and an acd, the australian cattle dog or heeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Wow! except for the ears this could be patch's twin! Patch's ears only stand half way. That is Twist, my 9-y.o. purebred working border collie. She's my main working dog at home (though her son Pip is taking some of that over--and Pip is also smooth-coated and ticked) and an open trial dog. People often mistake heavily ticked,prick-eared, smooth-coated border collies for ACDs (heelers), but really the body shape is completely different (among other things). I remember a farmer stopping by one time and asking about Twist "Is that a cattledog?" I thought he was asking if she worked cattle, so I answered "Yes." Later in the conversation I made the comment that all my dogs were border collies. He looked at me kind of funny. Later it occurred to me that when he asked if she was a cattledog, he was asking about breed and not what type of stock she worked. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimL Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 Patch could be a purebred border collie, unless you consider this an ACD mix! J. What a nice looking dog Julie, I love a dog with heavy ticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyTDogs Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Julie do you know if Twist carries red? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Additional Pictures of Patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patcher Dog Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 just a side comment- as i know we're all sticklers for correct terminology . there is a difference between aussie, generally a nickname for the the australian sheperd and an acd, the australian cattle dog or heeler. Ha Ha. I thought about that after I posted. Yes I meant to say that I had a heeler once. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Cindy, When Twist had the litter that included Pip and Phoebe all pups were B&W. There was a significan delay before Pip was born, and I kept thinking that maybe he would be my red puppy. Instead he was a white puppy, lol! All I can tell you about Twist is that she had two red littermates, her grandsire Imp. Mirk was a red tri, and lots of red dogs have come out of that line. She had a tiny red patch on her shoulder, FWIW. But I guess one litter can't tell you one way or the other about whether she carried red. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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