BC-Liz Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I feel like I failed. Like I was in a race with some opponent named "seizure" and they just took the gold. Today marks the day we're giving up on the fight against Gunnar's seizures by eliminating his "triggers". He seems to be set off so easily now. This most recent bought of 3 seizures in 1.5 days was caused by Iterceptor, we think, which he's never been sensitive to before. Counting the set of seizures he had from getting some one-on-one bark time that's 6 this month. We've picking up the phenobarbital today. Sorry buddy...hopefully this medicine will set you right again. (picture from our visit to Colorado for our honeymoon in September) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm so sorry. I can only guess how heart-wrenching this must be for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm sorry they are proving hard to manage. I hope you can find the lowest dose possible of the phenobarb to banish them. Beautiful picture of Gunnar, btw. He's such a handsome guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordercentrics Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Last year my friend Mary Ann, who does rescue, had a foster dog that began to have seizures. Someone contacted her and said that his daughter stopped having seizures when put on a gluten free diet, so she tried it. What a miracle! I don't know why it worked as I suppose it depends on the actual cause of the seizure, but you could try it. Kathy Robbins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Hi Liz, So sorry that Gunnar's seizures are increasing in frequency, and I know first hand how distressing it is to deal with seizures in dogs. However, there are several medications other than Phenobarbital that you and your vet may want to consider. My dog is currently taking Zonisamide, and at a very low dose, this drug controls her seizures without any noticeable side effects. Best wishes for a successful treatment protocol for your boy Gunnar. Regards, nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 So sorry. I do hope you can find a medication and dosage that controls the seizures without affecting his quality of life, sending good thoughts Gunnar's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Perhaps you and your vet have already discussed Potassium Bromide....also fewer side effects. Is your vet a Neuro specialist?? I don't know your history because you haven't offered it here.....so forgive me if my advice is something you've already tried or dismissed in consultation with your vet. The best $75 and 2 hr drive I ever invested was a visit to a DVM Neurologist visit for my epileptic dog. Her case was very fortunate....most are not so fortunate....but her seizures were mild and being over-treated by my regular vet. In fact, she did not need to be medicated at all. Most are not so fortunate, I am not saying that your dog doesn't need Pheno. However, if there is any possible way to visit a DVM Neuro....I'd try my very best to do it. Pheno is only one drug and has known side effects....sometimes it is the right drug....sometimes a different drug might be better. There is a Yahoo Groups Canine Epilepsy Group (over 1000 member) that might offer support and ideas....I suggest you look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Perhaps you and your vet have already discussed Potassium Bromide....also fewer side effects. Is your vet a Neuro specialist?? I don't know your history because you haven't offered it here.....so forgive me if my advice is something you've already tried or dismissed in consultation with your vet. The best $75 and 2 hr drive I ever invested was a visit to a DVM Neurologist visit for my epileptic dog. Her case was very fortunate....most are not so fortunate....but her seizures were mild and being over-treated by my regular vet. In fact, she did not need to be medicated at all. Most are not so fortunate, I am not saying that your dog doesn't need Pheno. However, if there is any possible way to visit a DVM Neuro....I'd try my very best to do it. Pheno is only one drug and has known side effects....sometimes it is the right drug....sometimes a different drug might be better. There is a Yahoo Groups Canine Epilepsy Group (over 1000 member) that might offer support and ideas....I suggest you look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 You didn't fail, some things are beyond your control. I can only echo the advice given to see a specialist. I had an epileptic dog who took meds and she took a while to adjust, but once she did she lived happily and healthily for many years. Best wishes to you both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I feel for you. We had an Aussie/BC cross girl who started off with very mild, petit mal seizures when she was age 4. We avoided medication until she was about 7, when the seizures became grand mal and left her visibly depleted and unsteady. She lived to age 13 on phenobarbatol, and we have no regrets. Our vet regularly monitored her blood levels and asked questions about her behavior. Our girl might have seemed a little goofier than she used to be, but then she was goofy to begin with, and it was hard to tell what might be the pheno and what was just encroaching age. Otherwise, she remained her same old happy, bouncy, energetic self right up to the end. Best of luck with your beautiful boy. ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I have no advice but send my best wishes to you and Gunnar to find the best solution for him. He is such a handsome boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC-Liz Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Thanks everyone for your thoughts. We haven't seen a specialist because frankly, it's cost prohibitive. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to look one up though. Our vet has discussed other drugs with us, I'm not sure if one was Zonisamide but I think Potassium Bromide was one of the other options she mentioned. We started off of Pheno from their advice since it typically works with all dogs (just as well as the other drugs, as they put it) and it's substantially less expensive. We can get a months worth of pheno for $17, how much do those other drugs cost? If they're about the same, then I'll mention them to our vet again. I appologize for not giving his history, I have posted several times about his seizures but it was definitely a while ago. So I'll give a small recap. Gunnar had his first seizure in July of 2008. He always has grand mal seizures but they're not usually very long, a minute max. We traced the "trigger" back to tree bark. You see...he has an OCD on trees...he thinks if he chews the trees, he'll get a squirrel (so maybe that's an OCD on squirrels). In May of 2008, we moved into a new house with lots of trees for him to nom on. Once we put two and two together, we tried our best to stop him from chewing on trees. So his seizures stopped. However, every time we have other dogs over and he gets excited, he'll nom on the trees. It usually takes him having a lot of free time to do some damage for him to get enough bark or sap in his system to lower his threshold enough for him to seize. Then in August of 2009, we tried switching the dogs foods, we ended up trying Bil-Jac for Rhea and Gunnar. For some screwed up reason, Bil-Jac became a new trigger. By the time we figured it out and took him off the Bil-Jac, he had had 6 seizures in a week. Again, he was fine, the seizures went away as they always do. But then in the beginning of this month, he had 3 more (they always happen in 3s for some reason) and we attributed it to him getting some tree time while our family was here for Christmas, but Steven can contest that he really didn't get much time without supervision outside (he always seizes about 5-7 days after contact with the trigger). Then again this week he seized 3 more times (in 1.5 days so that's 2 in a 24 hr peroid). What happened 5-7 days ago? We gave him a heartworm pill (Interceptor). This is the kicker...he's never been sensitive to chemicals before. They never lowered his threshold before. His trigger was always just the trees (and then the Bil-Jac). This is why we feel we're at the end of our rope. If his threshold is so low now, that we can't even give him a heartworm pill, what else are we to do? Not only that, but his seizures were increasing in length and we worry he'll get into a cluster seizure while we're at work and we won't be able to do anything about it. He'll turn 5 tomorrow...I selfishly want another 12 yrs out of him. I can only hope the pheno and seizures don't shorten his life. On a side note, anyone's seizure-dogs ever get incredibly needy after a bout of seizures? It's like he's glued to my backside and he hasn't had a seizure in a day now (knock on wood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 My blind dog Lok is also epi. We are lucky he has only had 5 seizures in his life (every month to two months), starting last August. My vet put him on pheno after the third one, though now I am doubting whether he should have been put on meds so soon. We've also changed his diet a bit--I can't recall exactly when I switched them from Orijen to TOTW, but it may have been around the time he started seizing, so they're all back on Orijen now. Pheno is processed by the liver and can lead to liver failure, and from what I've read a lot of Epi dogs are on a Milk Thistle supplement to help with liver function. Lok gets Milk Thistle every other day. Oh, and yes. Lok is usually very clingy for a day or so post-seizure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 We started off of Pheno from their advice since it typically works with all dogs (just as well as the other drugs, as they put it) and it's substantially less expensive. We can get a months worth of pheno for $17, how much do those other drugs cost? If they're about the same, then I'll mention them to our vet again. Its been a few years since I bought the meds, but I used to get Faye's pheno at the human pharmacy in a double sized dose and then split the pills, 1/2 morning and 1/2 night, and it ended up being really inexpensive (like $6/month) and she also took the potassium bromide (KBr) and initially we were getting really expensive tablets the vet ordered from a veterinary pharmacy, then I discovered I could get it from a local compounding pharmacy in a liquid, beef flavored form for less than $10/month. I just made sure that we squirted the KBr on some bread that we gave her with her food so that she got it all. I know some vets are squeamish about giving you a script but once you settle on a dosage and things seem to be going well be honest about finances and see if you can get the script. He'll turn 5 tomorrow...I selfishly want another 12 yrs out of him. I can only hope the pheno and seizures don't shorten his life. Nothing selfish about that! I don't think the pheno will necessarily shorten his life, but you gotta weigh quality of life over length sometimes, and every seizure he has could potentially lower that threshold. FWIW, every dog is different but Faye needed thyroid meds shortly after starting the phenobarb. We thought it had stopped working but when we looked at a new blood panel we saw the thyroid and once we added the thyroid meds she stopped again. She had 10 seizure free years. Its worth noting as the meds can sometimes affect the body chemistry and things can change. On a side note, anyone's seizure-dogs ever get incredibly needy after a bout of seizures? It's like he's glued to my backside and he hasn't had a seizure in a day now (knock on wood). Yup. He probably just feels funny or kind of sick. I used to give Faye a little vanilla (Breyers all natural) ice cream after a seizure and that seemed to make her feel a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Our Della was always a bit "off" and wanted mama and daddy, after her seizures. I imagine they're well aware something is wrong and they're glad to have us for comfort, afterwards. Also, she lived to 13 on pheno, and died of lymphoma rather than any side-effect of the pheno. ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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