abcollie Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Candy: Last time I talked to him (handful of years ago), he was getting disgusted with a certain person who would rent his sheep and keep them longer than originally agreed upon, and run them in more than one trial=loss of body condition. A I should have guessed that one :@)Shame really as they were nice healthy sheep. He use to graze in front of my house but doesn't even do that now ... I think he's sold off a lot of his sheep (lack of places to graze I would guess). He use to stop by when he had something he thought I might like to buy ... haven't seen him in awhile. Lana he loaded us some sheep into a trailer one time and his dogs "literally" shoved (and I mean "crashed" into them) and shouldered them into the trailer (for awhile I thought they were going to just pick them up and throw them in ... the dogs NOT the people :@0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Lana he loaded us some sheep into a trailer one time and his dogs "literally" shoved (and I mean "crashed" into them) and shouldered them into the trailer (for awhile I thought they were going to just pick them up and throw them in ... the dogs NOT the people :@0 I have one that does that when he gets tired. Looks like a doggie linebacker Re the loose eye maybe working mobs also contributes to the lack of eye. Even Kell can look loose eyed on a big group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lana Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Lana: I agree about big motors for the trial world, but to me there's nothing like a natural dog with a HUGE motor along with a heel bite! A and a big head bite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3msmom Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 A big problem is that producers who haven't been around good working dogs don't know how to use them effectively. Some are resistant to change to begin with and then they're too busy to want to take the time and energy to learn. They can fire up their Quad or saddle up the horse and know what they can get done and how to do it. The lack of accurate communication between the working dog and a green herding handler can make a days' work seem like a weeks' until they get it together. In addition the dog can't be turned off and parked until you need it next, it's a commitment even when it's not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Interesting turn of the subject kind of. Seems to me that a lot of folks I have had the pleasure of watching work dogs had their own kind of training. Maybe not in the polished, trial sort of way. Or maybe not even in any kind of structured training. But more a trial by fire way. They have their dogs, and they go to working them. Same with a lot of their other stock. And along the way they sure seem to work out something that helps them get the job done. At times more impressive to watch than others. And of course I have seen the ones that could not make heads or tails of working stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I've seen the same sort of thing out on ranches, too. Dogs aren't trained to any formal standard, but the cowboys work out some form of communication and the dogs learn the job as they go, usually from an older dog. It may not be the way trial dogs are made, but I'll wager it's probably a lot closer to the way border collies originally evolved. Hubby and I were just talking about the mob of sheep now grazing just a few miles south of us. Peruvian (or whatever) sheepherders in a trailer out in the sagebrush, two or three border collies and as many guardian dogs with them ... How *do* they get the job done? It's something we've wondered, and I wish I could speak Spanish so I could go talk to those fellas, one day. ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 A big problem is that producers who haven't been around good working dogs don't know how to use them effectively. Some are resistant to change to begin with and then they're too busy to want to take the time and energy to learn. They can fire up their Quad or saddle up the horse and know what they can get done and how to do it. The lack of accurate communication between the working dog and a green herding handler can make a days' work seem like a weeks' until they get it together. In addition the dog can't be turned off and parked until you need it next, it's a commitment even when it's not working. And that is a problem here too, especially because the time we really need the dogs is pretty short; the round up in autumn. When I talk to other farmers about working dogs I always say that you really have to be "into dogs" to be able to own a good working dog. You have to really like training your dog in the time you don´t need to him for stockwork. Ps. Pity that this part of the discussion isn´t in its own thread; It is a really interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearse Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 In addition the dog can't be turned off and parked until you need it next, it's a commitment even when it's not working. That's the best part of working with dogs. You can't talk to a four wheeler (well, you can swear at one but it never listens). Even if you aren't working stock and only putting up a bit of fence, you can always talk to your dog, and it will usually listen (unlike sometimes when it is working stock then see above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcollie Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 That's the best part of working with dogs. You can't talk to a four wheeler (well, you can swear at one but it never listens). Even if you aren't working stock and only putting up a bit of fence, you can always talk to your dog, and it will usually listen (unlike sometimes when it is working stock then see above). We need a "like" button. That was VERY good Pearse :@) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoothie Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Isn't the Fogt's trial field on a harvested crop field? Mark Yes, Fogt's New Year trial was on corn stubble. It was interesting to watch some of the dogs get into a corn row path and get sucked off of their cast trajectory. Quite a few experienced dogs got pulled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseviewfarm Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have been reading this topic with great interest. This is my first post. I have owned border collies since 1988. Since I was not a livestock person (grew up in Chicago) it was very easy to step into the world of AKC. And I do fall into Eileens #3 category at this time. Each dog had changed my focus. I was one of the BCSA folks and my change of goals has lead me to drop my BCSA membership. One of my dogs is dual registered although has been altered. He was purchased from a known USBCHA trialer. My current pup is only registered ABCA. So, some folks can alter their belief systems. I firmly believe in the border collie as a working stock dog first and foremost. Altho my 3 y/o is registeted with akc i will no longer trial him in AKC trials. I admit to being a former fence sitter. People cannot be "forced" into changing their opinions, they have to come to that on their own. I was one of the "you cant change things from the outside" folks, you cant change it from the inside either. That is why I no longer support that organization. Nothing against agility folks on this list. I loved agility, but I had to stop due to my females health issues. I went to watch agility at the national last year and vowed never to step on an agility field with a border collie. OMG the frantic nature of dog and owners alike made me cringe. Sometimes stepping back makes you see more clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Thank you for the decision you made, roseviewfarm, and thanks for posting. It's encouraging to read a post like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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