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juliepoudrier

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Liz P Newbie

Liz P

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Disc rupture and FCE would be treated the same medically. In an ideal world you would do the diagnostics to confirm the rupture, then surgery if required. In the real world many people face the problem of not being able to pay for that. (Some neurologists/surgeons will do a myelogram, which is often much less expensive than a CT and always less expensive than an MRI.)

 

Have you ever looked into Care Credit? That is a program to keep in mind for future emergencies.

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bcnewe2 Newbie

bcnewe2

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So Kat has movement of the other leg and her rear end? That is a blessing.

I'm so sorry poor Kat is going through this and hope you and her spirits stay up.

Good luck with the PT, I'm praying for a good recovery.

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juliepoudrier Newbie

juliepoudrier

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Have you ever looked into Care Credit? That is a program to keep in mind for future emergencies.

Actually I have Care Credit--got it when Willow was seeing the oncologist regularly. But practicality means that one can't bankrupt oneself and credit cards do need to be repaid. A $5,000 back surgery isn't in the cards, even with Care Credit.

 

J.

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Liz P Newbie

Liz P

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I know. Wouldn't be doable for me either, Care Credit or not. That's why I tell people who own breeds prone to disc problems to either purchase insurance that will cover the surgery or to put some money away each month in a savings account.

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MyTDogs Newbie

MyTDogs

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Oh Julie that really sucks, I'm sorry.

 

Here is my experience with spinal/disc issues:

 

First HERE is a good article on Lumbosacral Stenosis.

 

Last February Gilly was snarking at my neighbors visitors thru the fence and suddenly collapsed. I'd heard her bark & was was heading to the door to call the dogs in before they started a big fuss. When I go to the front porch I saw her struggling to walk- extremely ataxic & weak in the rear. I ran out & carried her in to the sofa and her gums were white & she wasn't moving much at all. Having been an ER vet tech for so many years I was thinking the worst- abdominal bleed, Hemangio, etc... she had been really sick since January & along with Renal failure we'd had some other nebulous signs. At first I was hysterical but the quickly realized that if she was bleeding out the end was here & I wanted her to be as calm & relaxed as possible. I took her to my former employer- the ER- since it was Saturday. I carried her in & out of the car but she was able to stand weakly once we were at the clinic. We took x-rays & the Doc thought her colon looked strange but her spleen & liver looked okay and her blood counts were only mildly anemic (we had been dealing with this already). So no diagnosis but not dying before my eyes either. She came home with Tramadol & strict rest & we would see her IMS on Monday. The entire time she was weak & had trouble standing. The picture was clouded by medications she was on for her kidneys (it made her weak with trouble standing too).

 

On Monday the radiologist said her colon was fine & they saw nothing abnormal. The IMS suggested having a neurologist examine her & when they palpated her spine (via a rectal) she screamed & almost tried to bite. She has NEVER done anything like that before, no matter how much pain she was in she had never screamed or bitten (& she's had a few bad accidents before). They suspected a ruptured disc between the last lumbar vertebra & the sacrum. They recommended an MRI to confirm & a surgery to relieve the pressure on the nerves. Huge $$, not to mention a huge risk for her already compromised kidneys & possibly even her heart (she has a grade 3-4 murmur).

 

I first decided to try cage rest & pred (10mg twice daily to start). She continued to be in lots of pain & had developed urinary & fecal incontinence & so I reluctantly scheduled the MRI (& a C/T scan to rule out any abdominal masses that may preclude further treatment). Depending on how she handled the anesthesia they would take her immediately to surgery if a ruptured disc was found. They did find a disc rupture at the lumbosacral junction but her BP kept falling & they felt that another 2 hours in surgery was not the best choice.

 

So we opted for 8 weeks cage rest & prednisone (with carafate & zantac too). I used an ex-pen so she would not be completely confined & lose even more muscle. Unfortunately I have 4 steps off the porch to get to the yard. I used a twin bed sheet rolled up & covered in vetrap in the center to sling her up & down the stairs. It wasn't easy but Gilly tends to be relaxed for a Border Collie.

 

Today she gets 2-5mg of pred every 2-3 days (mostly for IBD) & maybe 10mg if she does something silly (jumping off the porch to bark at cyclists going by or jumping in/out of the car with out waiting for help). She has an abnormal gait- bunny hops like a dysplastic dog would, she has exercise intolerance & general weakness (she can't stand for a bath for more than 5 minutes or so). The weakness, etc.. can be attributed to her other conditions.

 

But today she turns 13 :D ....My Christmas girl made it...we weren't so sure last January that she'd make it this far & I am so grateful to have her here even if she can't run & play as she used to.

 

I don't know how old Kat is or if your vet knows were the lesion is but the answer to those questions will have a great impact on the outcome. I know it will cost more but I would strongly urge you to see a neurologist & get a thorough neuro exam. To me it is unusual to see only one leg affected by IVDD. A specialist may be able to give you a better than guess at where the lesion is, if it is an FCE or a disc and give you the best chance and successful medical management. In any event, my advice would be to be really strict with crate rest & towel walking, be generous with anti inflammatories & pain medications and to use GI protectants before you need them.

Please visit Dodger's list (they are on Facebook & Yahoo groups too). They are mostly dachshunds but they have extensive practical experience on caring for downed dogs & their mantra is that dogs can recover- without expensive surgery! Also there is a study (looking for patients!!) at NC state on acute disc rupture.

 

I am really sorry this happened at all but especially over the holidays. Good luck & let me know if there's anything I can do.

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juliepoudrier Newbie

juliepoudrier

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Thanks for all the great information Cindy. I've read through a bunch of it. I will talk to the vet about seeing a neurologist--I'm sure there's probably one at the same place in Cary where I was taking Willow to the oncologist. The only thing I haven't managed to do for her is the towel thing. If I place anything around her pelvic region she refuses to move without a ton of coaxing. Since she's able to hop on one hind leg, I'm letting her do it her way. The bad leg does sometimes get in the way, but she seems to be managing for now.

 

I don't have any Zantac on hand, but Willow has both (generic) pepcid and prilosec, so I just started giving her pepcid until I can consult with the vet.

 

She's on a descending dose, starting at 30 mg/day (split into two doses) for 5 days, then 20 mg for 5 days, then 10 mg for 5 days, and then 10 mg every other day for another 5 days.

 

If not snowed in tomorrow, I hope to get to the store and get her some canned pumpkin too. Right now, the only real "pain" meds I have for her is muscle relaxer. She needs to be weaned off that, but the acupuncture vet said to concommitantly start/increase the use of pain meds, and of course I don't have any and can't get any till Monday. But I'm doing what I can.

 

 

Ooky,

Her attitude seems okay. She doesn't like being left in a crate if the rest of us are in another room, and she really wants to play (picks up random stuff, but mainly pine cones, when I take her out to potty.

 

She wants to go and do. She doesn't seem terribly fazed about dragging a leg, except that she does tangle up in it sometimes and lose her balance, which can't be good (but could also be partly a result of the muscle relaxers she has on board). I guarantee you that if I opened the gate and let her go, she'd take off for the creek full speed ahead, dragging a leg behind her. So she's not acting like a dog in pain or anything.

 

J.

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MyTDogs Newbie

MyTDogs

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I don't have any Zantac on hand, but Willow has both (generic) pepcid and prilosec, so I just started giving her pepcid until I can consult with the vet.

 

Pepcid is fine too. We use Zantac because of Gilly's IBD- Slightly more effective for her condition.

 

She's on a descending dose, starting at 30 mg/day (split into two doses) for 5 days, then 20 mg for 5 days, then 10 mg for 5 days, and then 10

mg every other day for another 5 days.

 

This sounds good- I assume she is tolerating it okay. That is good.

 

If not snowed in tomorrow, I hope to get to the store and get her some canned pumpkin too. Right now, the only real "pain" meds I have for her is muscle relaxer. She needs to be weaned off that, but the acupuncture vet said to concommitantly start/increase the use of pain meds, and of course I don't have any and can't get any till Monday. But I'm doing what I can.

 

Sounds like she might need more sedation than pain medication. Something to settle her down a bit, make her sleep some.

 

 

She wants to go and do. She doesn't seem terribly fazed about dragging a leg, except that she does tangle up in it sometimes and lose her balance, which can't be good (but could also be partly a result of the muscle relaxers she has on board). I guarantee you that if I opened the gate and let her go, she'd take off for the creek full speed ahead, dragging a leg behind her. So she's not acting like a dog in pain or anything.

 

See to me this doesn't sound at all like a disc- much more like an FCE. I am glad to hear she is not in terrible pain. I am sorry to hear you guys are having a white Christmas- it can't be easy dealing with a gimpy dog in all the freezing weather.

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Maja Newbie

Maja

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Poor Kat. Our Kelly has had an injury to her Achilles tendon, and she was not allowed to do anything strenuous. She started carrying her play rag (she never did it since puppyhood), lay in the magic spot in the living room ("if I lie here, he will have to take me to do the chores") broke my heart every time. She didn't understand that she didn't do anything wrong.

 

Get better Kat!

Maja

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juliepoudrier Newbie

juliepoudrier

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Cindy,

I mistyped, she's actually getting half that dose of pred (well except for the first two days, when I misread the label and gave it to her twice a day vs. once). So I imagine she should be fine at the lower, correct dose (15, 10, 5), since she tolerated the doubled dose so well.

 

As for the snow, I figure it's less pressure on her dragging foot than the actual ground is, so I'm letting her go out without her protective boot. But it is scarier carrying her up and down the stairs and hoping I don't slip and fall...

 

Here are a couple of pictures I took today. She is not a willing subject. Sometimes she seems able to get the bad leg up under her more so it drags less, but I think that's a function of better control on the side of the good leg.

 

IMG_3654_edited-1.jpg

 

IMG_3653_edited-1.jpg

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Rebecca, Irena Farm Newbie

Rebecca, Irena Farm

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Julie, it might be wishful thinking, but I see a lot more lateral action in that upper leg than I saw Thursday. It's just two pictures and it's snow rather than floors with a boot to drag, but even if that's the difference, you might want to carefully let her walk around a few minutes at a time, several times a day until the snow is gone (by herself). And that was a big ol' run-on sentence. :blink:

 

The more you can do to encourage strength and range of motion in every joint and process that does not affect the injury, the better it will be for Kat, no matter what the ultimate outcome is.

 

The more often you can get her in that state where endorphins are awash in her brain (that was the word - one of the many - I couldn't remember the other day), it will increase healing, increase the effectiveness of physical therapy, and relieve the stress of confinement.

 

I realized I told you the second best position for massage but never showed you how I do it with my own dogs. Ideally, you'll get to where you can lie on your side and she (or whatever other dog) will snuggle right up. I work on one side, then when I turn over, the dog follows me and snuggles facing the other way. I sit up to get the pelvic area but Kat doesn't get that anyway. :)

 

It takes a little while to learn the routine but Kat was getting into it surprisingly quickly the other day. :wub: I really hope she surprises everyone and makes a 100% recovery with a minimum of trouble for you!

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D'Elle Collaborator

D'Elle

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Just saw this for the first time today..................Julie, I am ever so sorry to hear about Kat's injury. I am sending you all kinds of good thoughts, prayers, and mojo. I do hope that she is able to recover. I know what it is like to wish you could do anything in the world for your beloved dog, but to have monetary restrictions. That just sucks. I wish there were a way I could help, but at least know that you and Kat (who, by the way, is stunningly beautiful) are on my mind and in my heart.

best,

D'Elle

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